What are we doing to ourselves?

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

The web, hook up apps... The BBRT, MH, A4A, SD, et al whose focus is meeting to have sex; all do what? The presentation layer is photos, stats. We experience each other in that shallow experience. As with content feeders who present just the news, or slant an individual wants to hear; our hook up sites serve to do the same thing. We see only what (we think) we want to see. We think we're getting what we want, but instead we've cut the opportunities for what might be terrific human contact to so much less. We filter out and make arbitrary choices and in truth, we really don't know who we are rejecting; or who we're accepting by comparison. We only see the stats. Sure we might have a series of 9" dicks; or nothing but hairy chests; but if we limit life to only what we think we're attracted to; aren't we really doing ourselves and each other a disservice?

(pulling out the curmudgeon thing); pre web we met at baths, bars, parks, bus stops, other public places. Our experience in meeting was not unlike what you've read in "The Breeder" blog posts. It was visual, in full 3d (reality). Sometimes it was the glance, the look back, something in the eyes that caught our attention. If we said hi the response was in his voice; we heard him. We were either attracted to or not on those sort of things. For me that lead to some hook ups with men who at first sight were not necessarily what I thought i was looking for; but his voice either had a quality, or humor that I DID find attractive. Real vs web; there is such a HUGE difference. PreWeb I was connecting with more men, and more different men than I have in a long time. I miss that.

I know you rawTOP are working on a new hookup website, perhaps with and app component. But I wonder if we wouldn't be treating ourselves, collectively, better if there were events? Not necessarily a cumunion (although it might lead to something like that); but BreedingZONE or BBBH live events. What if we had something along the line of flashmobs if we're so tethered to technology? What if rawTOP couldl negotiate deals at local baths that encourage a full house, with some event spaces that got men to actually TALK to each other? What if we here make a decision to find a new way; one that requires real live humans to interact in person? Guys, I think we have isolated each other into so many silos, we aren't a community at all anymore.

We hosted a live party at our house last night. The only requirement was that it was a nude party; so all sorts of different men. All sorts of different professions. When my husband and I were talking about it afterwards, we were comparing it to our abysmal satisfactory recent web experiences. It was that conversation that lead to this post. We can't be the only ones who, upon a bit of reflection, are seeing this.

What if anything, shall we do about it?

Thanks for reading... Thanks for thinking...

JDW

[bearbandit]

Whatever it is, we have to remain in control of it.

I think it's telling that that you set a parameter (nude) for last night's party. I've been to parties where the most action was in the kitchen: the basic requisites of life (food and sex) in such close proximity ;-)

That said, I fail to see the point of the hour long journey to either the "local" leather bar or the sauna: I'm afraid I do have a problem about my walking stick, which I, rightly or wrongly, which I need in areas that are unfamiliar to me. If however, party hosts like my friends in Devon, say "sure come down a few days ahead to learn the layout of the house", that's fuckin' brilliant.

And I have to add the when I was near death in summer 2012, it was support from you guys that kept me going...

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

bearbandt you know if you ever come here it would be for an extended stay.

we have a large place. so nude the requirement. yes good food and drink. plenty of social space. and of course two play rooms with various play tools. fuk bench and sling were popular, as were the beds.

[slowfuck]

I have come to a similar conclusion recently. There will always be a place for online hookup sites for those who don't wish to connect with anyone more than necessary to get off, be that by meeting, or fantasising about meeting without any serious intention. Myself, I find I need more of a connection for the time we are together. Hence I too find naked house parties with social interaction helps in this. I usually think I prefer younger slimmer guys but met a larger guy in his 70s who was so nice and we had a wonderful time together.

[negbtm]

I think we just need to remain introspective - aware of whether or not we're actually enjoying what we're doing and being fulfilled by it as opposed to being enslaved to what we think we enjoy - while still continuing to use online sites or apps. The sheer amount of content (people and otherwise) offered by sites and apps "forces" us to filter out anything we can't form an immediate opinion on - yes I'll fuck him or no I won't - or don't have an immediate take-away from, and can definitely be overwhelming, but are an amazing advancement in technology and have such potential to allow us to form close-knit global villages of like-minded men. Global villages such as these are really important in preventing teen (and adult) suicides by giving them a place to feel accepted and welcome and normal, even if it is "only" online.

[fuckboy20]

It's your choice to stay online and meet people like that if that's how you wish to do things. No one is forcing you to use online hook ups like BBRT, Growlr, Grindr, or to filter people based on appearances, cock sizes, and etc. But you are absolutely right at the same time. Someone you reject online or whom rejects you, might have actually grown into a really good friendship or caused you to meet someone else even. They say a door opening is a good thing and the more doors or opportunities opened the better. It could be looked at as a negative thing as well.

You are correct that most guys now do use Grindr, Growlr, BBRT, Breedingzone and hook up sites but you don't have to? Don't think of technology or the web as a negative. Think of it more like an accessory or a tool. Use it find places where guys hook up like a local cruising spot? Use it to find events going on that you might be into. Yes, a lot of the mystery, suspense, and art of cruising is probably declining. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen anymore.

Not everyone lives in a big mecha city where they have gay bars, bath houses, and everything at their disposal. Some people don't have internet or have slow internet too so they don't rely on technology.

Even though I live at a gay campground without internet in my trailer I do like it. I don't talk to guys a lot (especially since I'm off the market now) but sometimes a man cruises me and I cruise him back or we talk and just chat. Maybe I'll talk to them again or maybe I won't. For a while I talked to two guys and we'd go to the bar every saturday night and eat dinner together too just hanging out as friends or buds. There was no sex that was demanded or required, although I'm sure they would have liked to. They made it apparent too. Granted, not everyone is in that type of environment.

After I became positive I hooked up less than I did before. Multiple loads up my ass, multiple guys in one day or sex clubs or bars turned into maybe just going out to a bar once or twice a month and a sex club once a month. Hooking up with a guy or two every month. Yes, I was partially scared from being HIV Poz and sort of left out in the cold.

But reflecting on how much of a slut and whore I was it was a lot of fun. But all the time I spent hooking up with men and taking multiple loads I missed SEVERAL chances to make friends, buds, and people to hang out with regularly. It was a miracle I had even a few fuck buds because I was moving so fast. So I told myself that I'd no longer be a slut and I'd go to bars, events, and places to meet people, socialize, cruise, and just have fun. And I ended up getting partners. Although, when we were in NY briefly the seasonals at the gay camp ground there had a sunday cosmo party. God, those drinks were good. Going to friend's trailers for dinner or having them over was fun.

Groups..social groups can also be joined to make friends or cruise too. Also, I did use to be part of a famous gay forum and they had "MEETS" that were popular. We all met in Anaheim California for gay days. It was a blast and a few guys I talked to on the forum I got to meet in person and it was awesome. And one guy I talked to a lot and liked, we had sex. It was hot.

Events for rawtops new site are a good idea but lets be real. Most people on here just want sex or loads. If you try to do an event at a bath house..well it's going to be about sex. It's better to find people who seem to have an interest in more than just sex and as you said, throw a small party, nude even and just let people relax and have fun. The old ways aren't dead and gone. It's just most don't follow them anymore and use their phones and computers. But I use both. Technology, History, and Tradition.

Okay..three

[rawTOP]

Personally I separate sex and friendships. I can't cum with guys I know. The less I know about someone, the better. So I like anonymous scenes like the ones JizzDump is bemoaning. But I also believe in friendships. I prefer a few good friends over lots of casual ones. I've been with my husband for 16+ years now. Our relationship is not about sex - we're more like constant companions and best friends. 4 years ago I met a guy who also works in porn and we've become really tight. I usually see him at least once a week and we chat on Skype almost every day. Then there are the dinner parties. We love to have friends over for dinner - though we've cut back lately 'cause money has been tight (but that's temporary).

I guess I what I'm saying is relationships are important, but don't look to sexual encounters to build relationships. I've found two boyfriends (including my current husband) at bathhouses - so real relationships can come out of anonymous sex, but you shouldn't expect that to happen - just be open to it.

I've always said I want BBBH.com to be "more social". Sex will be the focus, but it will (hopefully) present a somewhat broader and more well-rounded view of a person than just their sexual stats and preferences.

But at the end of the day if you want friends you have to get out there and do the work. There are many ways to do it - you can host parties at your place, go drinking with folks, go out to dinner, etc. It's important to have a well-rounded life - and that means having real friends in addition to your fuck buddies.

[bbzh]

The more I live, I value friendships, romantic relationships and the ability to be a depraved sex pig on occasion. I have found a man that allows me to have all those things and it's beautiful. I take him to sex parties and we just fuck everything we fancy and meet at the bar and laugh about it. Then we head home and sleep in each other's arms. Or we spend the entire weekend just watching movies. Or cooking. Hanging out. Going for a walk.

I can't get with the whole online thing although I do lurk. I want to feel a guy's energy. I want to negotiate what we do on the spot.

I am full of contradictions at times. I have some fuck buddies whose last name I don't know. I fuck or get fucked by sometimes the same guys at parties and we've never even spoken. I have deep friendships with guys spanning decades and we've never had sex. I've hooked up with guys and felt a connection so strong that I could sit and talk with them for hours.

I've stopped trying to label everything or understand it. And I don't have enough time or energy to make sense of everything I have experienced. If it works for me, I just go with the flow.

I do think being constantly tethered to the internet makes guys impatient, insensitive, lazy, indecisive, picky and intolerant. The internet is like cable tv, offering you one thousand channels filled with a lot of rubbish and you miss out on something good because you're too busy surfing.

[Blueyedsoul]

This is an interesting thread for sure. I've discussing this with my best friend a lot lately. Both of us were bartenders for quite sometime. He in a local gay bar while I in a straight bar. Both of us over 13 years at respective bars. We were meeting men regularly. There was no shortage of men who either wanted to enjoy us sexually or as friends or both. Some of my best friends are from this period. Now as my best friend and I have aged we do not go out as often and find ourselves on the apps. As a result, men seemed to just disappear. So, we decided to start going out to the bars/clubs in the local area (Riverside & Palm Springs). We would go out once a week. Even if we had a busy work schedules. We had to stick to it. And we did. Our circle of friends and pool of interested men has began to (pardon the pun) swell. Fast forward 5 weeks later...

This past weekend my best friend and I held true to our agreement and headed to the local bar 15 minutes away in Riverside. While there I recognized a local app hot piece of ass. You know the type... gym rat with the perfect face. In the online world he's out of yours and my league. Unattainable and would have no issues letting you know. If you don't look like him, it isn't/wasn't happening. I mean we are talk Men's Fitness cover page material. But I digress This guy had always ignored me even though he lived less that 5067 feet, according to Grindr. But this night was different.

Was he really flirting with me from the opposite side of the bar. I thought to myself, no he's not winking at me and smiling but then looking down all coy. Muscles hanging out and these tight stylish shorts with a beautiful tan and he's winking at me. No, surely someone else is behind me. It was crowded after all. Eventually, the night came to a close and we headed out. The next morning I woke up to find a message on Grindr from guess who...the gym rat. He wanted to know why I didn't approach him. I told him I thought it was intended for someone else. He quickly replied that No it was intended for me. He then proceeded to tell me that he has seen me 'in action' a few times while out and about and he liked what he saw. He was interested in meeting up for 'possibilities'. Mainly a discreet friends with benefits/fuckbuddy scenario. Well, he's been over twice now. It's amazing in person. I had him pretty much pegged. He told me I was not his norm but there was something about me. As I get to know him, I like him. He's shown a little more depth. Who know's how it will all unfold. But hey, it all started because my best friend and I had this very question about online versus real life. It's OK to be a homebody and enjoy the apps but realize that that human interaction suffers and your own self esteem may suffer as well. You may miss out on what you are looking for - either long term or short term.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Personally I separate sex and friendships. I can't cum with guys I know. The less I know about someone, the better. So I like anonymous scenes like the ones JizzDump is bemoaning.

Thanks rawTOP. Just to be clear i am not bemoaning anonymous hookups at all. Online sites though automatically edit out people based upon stats and photos, neither of which describes men well. When we met in bars we didn't have a list of stats. And the photo was a breathing person. With a voice... A look in the eye that a few seconds live gives a different impression than a nanosecond snap in a photo.

Live vs cyber, we tend to think online is "efficient" when I assert it unintentionally cuts us off from some great experiences. Just like online though, some of those evolve into friendships. Unlike online some meetings will never be a hookup, but might be a friendship. Real and in person places are more diverse. We interact differently and often have great anonymous sex with people we might have passed over online...

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

The more I live, I value friendships, romantic relationships and the ability to be a depraved sex pig on occasion. I have found a man that allows me to have all those things and it's beautiful. I take him to sex parties and we just fuck everything we fancy and meet at the bar and laugh about it. Then we head home and sleep in each other's arms. Or we spend the entire weekend just watching movies. Or cooking. Hanging out. Going for a walk.

I can't get with the whole online thing although I do lurk. I want to feel a guy's energy. I want to negotiate what we do on the spot.

I am full of contradictions at times. I have some fuck buddies whose last name I don't know. I fuck or get fucked by sometimes the same guys at parties and we've never even spoken. I have deep friendships with guys spanning decades and we've never had sex. I've hooked up with guys and felt a connection so strong that I could sit and talk with them for hours.

I've stopped trying to label everything or understand it. And I don't have enough time or energy to make sense of everything I have experienced. If it works for me, I just go with the flow.

I do think being constantly tethered to the internet makes guys impatient, insensitive, lazy, indecisive, picky and intolerant. The internet is like cable tv, offering you one thousand channels filled with a lot of rubbish and you miss out on something good because you're too busy surfing.

Well said, thanks. Reflects well another piece of the puzzle I was trying to convey.

[mxguynla13]

First time post. Been a lurker for a while. This thread just got me thinking of the last time I went to midtowne. No one talks to anyone anymore. It's like this little ant farm of ants coming and going from room to room. I only started going recently but I have to think that before these placers were social and people would actually talk to each other.

It drives me crazy and I am usually the one starting a conversation in the steam or the hot tub. I 100% think it's because of how disconnected we have become

[TigerMilner]

I agree with RT. I love how apps and online dating let us cut to the chase. I also enjoy the fact that in the cyber-sexual world we can be who we want to be. We can act out fantasies. It might seem shallow, but there are a lot of men I'd sleep with but would not go out with. In fact, that is most often the case. And in sync with RT again, I have to admit I met my first partner the first time I ever went to a bath house. This was before the internet.

Also, I have numerous friends today who at one point were anonymous hook ups. Some of them I still fuck with, some have moved past that. It usually doesn't happen, but it can. I usually discourage it, but some men are more interesting than others. Some I like more than others. And that part has nothing to do with sex.

[pisces bearcub]

I also love how technology has changed the way we can hook up. You can meet guys that you may never have met before, they wouldn't be going out to the bars or baths, etc. Plus, you can also find other places to hook up, like parks and such. It also makes it a lot easier to meet guys when you are located outside of a major centre.

Of course, once I've found out where to go, I usually like to know a little about the guy I'm getting it from. Of course, some venues aren't as conducive to a little visiting as others.