"You clean ???" after the fact

[fuckboy20]

Pozzie? That's a new one. Never heard that one before. Wow, what a great thread.

@musclmtl

I completely agree with what you did. I haven't really been to bath houses or sex clubs much and haven't had to deal with letting people know or not know as much. But the dude was fucking high. When people are on drugs or drunk they do things they normally wouldn't do. He asked if you were "clean" and that is so fucking vague. I love how guys ask that it's kind of cute actually. "Yeah I took a shower before I came here." Ask what you really want to ask "Are you negative?" not something vague. Not everyone will agree with what you did but the dude got himself fucked up and probably took other loads up the ass. He's in an anonymous place anyways. Even though I don't know if I'd do what you did I support it.

@hungry_hole

You're absolutely right. Sex clubs and bath houses are where most leave their morality at the door and pig out and whore out. Or guys who are new experiment. It would be really hard for a bottom to go to court and say, "He pozzed me, I had loads up my ass, I was high, drunk, and had my ass in the air. But he..he tried to kill me by infecting me". If a case like that ever happened in court and the guy who took a poz load won. I don't even...

But what you are also referring to is a vague area which hasn't been explored. Also understand as far as homophobia goes I'm sure pozophobia (inventing words is fun) is much stronger. Biased, unfair, and lies I'm sure have been used against poz guys before.

@wood:

It's true guys have gone to jail for just spitting or even if a poz guy fucked a guy or woman with a condom I think there has been a case or two where he was found guilty. I get the point, it sucks to be poz. And you are correct. I don't think the majority of guys really want to become poz. This is more of a fantasy site if you will, but there are some parts that are very realistic. I don't think this site is an influence to do things like stealth or breed guys either. That being said, I do kinda like poz talk now when fucking or getting fucked. And that's thanks to all the lovely stories on here. But that's also part of acceptance as well. I'm not afraid to admit I'm poz. But at the same time, it's not something I would have liked happen to me.

Overall bareback sex is a risk. Everyone knows that. Fucking someone in a bath house or sex club bare and being poz is an even bigger risk. Despite how fucked the guy is or how many guys have fucked him if he knows your poz and tells you can be fucked. Doesn't matter about the loop holes, or the unexplored area. It will be explored if it's taken that far. But I do believe bath houses should be safe ground. If someone asks, and I mean asks. Not says "Oh are you clean?". Asks, "Are you negative or positive." I believe if someone is poz they should be honest. But to a certain extent if they just take all loads or get fucked up and ask vague questions. This isn't going to be a popular answer but they kind of fucking deserve it. STD's or getting poz. If they are really going to take loads up their ass and just go by guys saying they are neg or not asking they deserve what they get. Everyone takes a risk when they bareback.

I went to a book store a few weeks ago and as soon as a guy touched my dick and was turned on I said, "I'm poz. Is that a problem." He told me it wasn't. He was poz too. He told me he gets rejected a lot. And cumunion. Fuck cumunion was beautiful. No mention of status or asking was ever mentioned. A few of the guys I played with though, we chatted a little and they told me they were poz I told them I was too. But I doubt anyone at cumunion ever worries or asks about status. Because that's what that event is supposed to be about. That being said, doesn't mean some neg guy or safer (still inventing words) couldn't come in and take a raw load and not know about the poz guys or it being bareback night. I actually did see a condom too on a table that was used. Someone used a condom at cumunion. I'll be damned.

I had a straight type construction worker hit on me after last night. I told him I was poz. He was disguisted saying that he thinks I should go away. But asked if I had any friends who weren't poz to send his way. I told him, "All my friends are poz." He said that this is a fucked up world. Yet, I saw him bent over taking a guy who I knew was poz's load up his ass. And a few other guys were fucking him too. He ended up fucking me anyways raw. He wanted me to fuck him and I reminded him I was poz. He said, "Oh shit. I thought you were kidding." Who the fuck would kid about something like that. I tried to fuck him with a condom but it didn't really work so we gave up. But I loved how he was worried about the fact that he fucked me bare, but wasn't even considering all the guys that fucked him raw. I don't think he knows they were poz though. Of course not, a guy like him wouldn't even ask.

Technically if he wanted to I'm sure he could take me to court. "Oh, he said he was poz in a joking manner so I fucked him raw. But then he was actually being honest telling me he really was poz and he fucked me with a condom. But I was really fucking drunk and I let other guys fuck me raw but he was poz." If he really wanted to he could say something like that.

I'm starting to think the true reality of being poz is you're just fucked. People can try all the shit they want whether you're honest or lie. But there will be people out there against you and afraid of you. And if they feel like it they can try to get you in trouble legally or other ways. And that's just something you have to deal with. But seriously more poz nights or bareback nights so not having to worry as much about the legalities and moralities please.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

And because I'm honest about HIV on my profiles, I'm practically a nun, excepting the few who are more interested in my cum than me, which makes me less interested in them. I think of having HIV+ on my profiles as a twit filter...

bearbandit, I'm honest about being neg and on PrEP and get turned down. Being on an anti hiv med has the absurdly ignorant consluding that by taking aprEP I am just lying and trying to poz them. That DDF youtube vid is closer to fact than fiction...

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

I'm starting to think the true reality of being poz is you're just fucked. People can try all the shit they want whether you're honest or lie. But there will be people out there against you and afraid of you. And if they feel like it they can try to get you in trouble legally or other ways. And that's just something you have to deal with. But seriously more poz nights or bareback nights so not having to worry as much about the legalities and moralities please.

Which is part of the reason we need to collectively advocate for PrEP around the globe. Neggies have a solution that is better than condoms to help them control their own risk. HIV has been around a long time. We need to stop punishing our poz brothers.

wood: was writing about chasers in context of POZ1956's post. chasing is an odd mindset. When one could reasonably conclude that BB sex would result in conversion at some point; chasers had a point (sort of). But knowledge bring power, and the notion of inevitable is no longer true.

[wood]

Pozzie? That's a new one. Never heard that one before. Wow, what a great thread.

@musclmtl

I completely agree with what you did. I haven't really been to bath houses or sex clubs much and haven't had to deal with letting people know or not know as much. But the dude was fucking high. When people are on drugs or drunk they do things they normally wouldn't do. He asked if you were "clean" and that is so fucking vague. I love how guys ask that it's kind of cute actually. "Yeah I took a shower before I came here." Ask what you really want to ask "Are you negative?" not something vague. Not everyone will agree with what you did but the dude got himself fucked up and probably took other loads up the ass. He's in an anonymous place anyways. Even though I don't know if I'd do what you did I support it.

Heres my main issue with this. #1 Its the lying part. I just dont think anyone should lie. #2 I think all gay men like to beat around the bush when it comes to HIV, and again no one wants to offend anyone, or really ask, so they say, "Are you clean" We can all pretend not to know what they are asking but we all do. The only gray area is when someone is asking before sex if they cleaned out inside. Otherwise they are asking HIV status. Do I like or agree with using the word clean to describe HIV or other STI's Hell no. But playing dumb is no excuse IMO.

@hungry_hole

You're absolutely right. Sex clubs and bath houses are where most leave their morality at the door and pig out and whore out. Or guys who are new experiment. It would be really hard for a bottom to go to court and say, "He pozzed me, I had loads up my ass, I was high, drunk, and had my ass in the air. But he..he tried to kill me by infecting me". If a case like that ever happened in court and the guy who took a poz load won. I don't even...

Yes, and no. I know plenty of guys that go to the baths that I wouldnt describe as whores or pigs. In fact most I know use condoms there. So this is one reason it bothers me that people want to describe the baths as a free for all where anything goes and you should just accept getting HIV, because no one will use condoms or discuss status, and even if they do its okay for them to lie because its the baths. Hell I have been to bathhouses numerous times and havent ever hooked up beyond making out and touching, so not everyone is there to collect cum.

@wood:

It's true guys have gone to jail for just spitting or even if a poz guy fucked a guy or woman with a condom I think there has been a case or two where he was found guilty. I get the point, it sucks to be poz. And you are correct. I don't think the majority of guys really want to become poz.

I had a straight type construction worker hit on me after last night. I told him I was poz. He was disguisted saying that he thinks I should go away. But asked if I had any friends who weren't poz to send his way. I told him, "All my friends are poz." He said that this is a fucked up world. Yet, I saw him bent over taking a guy who I knew was poz's load up his ass. .....Technically if he wanted to I'm sure he could take me to court. "Oh, he said he was poz in a joking manner so I fucked him raw.

I'm starting to think the true reality of being poz is you're just fucked. People can try all the shit they want whether you're honest or lie. But there will be people out there against you and afraid of you. And if they feel like it they can try to get you in trouble legally or other ways. And that's just something you have to deal with. But seriously more poz nights or bareback nights so not having to worry as much about the legalities and moralities please.

I doubt you do, but the people on here that dont know my responses probably think I am just some nut out to make poz guys life miserable, and thats not the case. I respond to these threads because I believe in disclosure during sex. I have been lied to about status before and got calls from the health department about guys I fucked who tested HIV+ With PrEP its much less of a worry, but I still like to be informed, and really status doesnt bother me. Yes I may be in the minority on that, but there are neg guys out there who are open to poz men. The construction guy sounds like he is just uneducated. Could he sue? yeah but it would get thrown out immediately, just like probably any bathhouse case would. However like I stated before IMO that doesnt make bathhouses a free for all where its okay to lie.

Your last comment actually made me think the most. I dont think HIV+ people are "fucked" but they really do have to do a lot more when it comes to sex, and life in general. What bothers me about this forum the most is the glorification of HIV. They tend to ignore all the bad aspects of HIV infection while vastly inflating the idea of carefree sex. It still boggles my mind that anyone considers HIV freeing, when its a lifelong illness that makes you dependent on medication, and people will discriminate against you for it. A good friend of mine has been seeing a guy for 4 months, and they havent had sex. For him its under the guise of "waiting" but in reality hes HIV+ and scared shitless to get rejected by the guy cause he really likes him.

In my time in outreach and testing as well as through friends, lovers, and hookups I have probably met hundreds if not thousands of HIV+ people, and not one ever said they are glad it happened. The ONLY time I ever hear that is on here through a screen, so it makes it very difficult to believe.

This sounds like a downer statement, and I'm sorry because I dont mean for it to be, but I think way too many people in here dont hear what the guys that have lived through the worst of it are saying. Bearbandit, and poz1956 have a perspective that few on here seem to realize. They are from a generation that died off, and now they are at an age where they can fully see the "negative" side of things as older men who are still alive and now healthy.

There is an older guy I am hooking up with right now who is undetectable. Im 30, hes 46, and looks probably 35. What gets me everytime about him that despite being healthy is that its obvious HIV weighs on him. Its a profound image of a person who at first glance has a great life, but has been relegated to certain things he really didnt want because of HIV. He doesnt have a husband despite wanting one because of dating issues; he kept the job he has longer that he's wanted to keep decent health insurance; He uses hookup apps where being HIV+ is more accepted despite wanting more than that.

HIV isnt a death sentence, and plenty of people live great happy lives with it, but it is something that will change every aspect of a persons life, and that just doesn't seem to enter into the mind of so many people on here.

Lastly as I thought about it more, the other reason non-disclosure bothers me so much is that I want to see a generation of men that DONT have to worry about HIV, and until we stop infecting each other its not gonna happen. The fantastic part now is that with early treatment, Tasp, and PrEP, we actually could see that in my lifetime, even without a cure. But its only gonna happen if we are honest with ourselves and others.

[Poz1956]

Also understand as far as homophobia goes I'm sure pozophobia (inventing words is fun) is much stronger.

. . .

That being said, doesn't mean some neg guy or safer (still inventing words) . . .

I claim prior art on the first one. In a part bitching, part educational profile I wrote on December 1, 2013, and posted on Squirt I noted

Turned off by: POZAPHOBES who live in fear and react in ignorance.

As for the second word, when HIV prevention techniques were first being taught, they called it "Safe Sex." Since they couldn't guarantee it was 100% safe, (probably on the advice of some lawyer) they very quickly renamed it to "Safer Sex."

[wood]

So I tried to edit that last reponse because my wording was way off on a few things, but time expired, ces't la vie.

[fuckboy20]

Heres my main issue with this. #1 Its the lying part. I just dont think anyone should lie. #2 I think all gay men like to beat around the bush when it comes to HIV, and again no one wants to offend anyone, or really ask, so they say, "Are you clean" We can all pretend not to know what they are asking but we all do. The only gray area is when someone is asking before sex if they cleaned out inside. Otherwise they are asking HIV status. Do I like or agree with using the word clean to describe HIV or other STI's Hell no. But playing dumb is no excuse IMO.

I understand you're issue with that wood. And it's justified. But you also know the context of the poster's case. The dude was fucking high out of his mind with already loads up his ass. I think part of the thing is you aren't see it from a different POV. You are right about it being wrong to be dishonest and saying that all us pozzies need to be upfront about it. But a bareback cumdump who's fucked up high or drunk and taking raw loads is a fucking wildcard in my book. Regardless of what the law says. That's my view on it. I don't believe in protecting stupidity or people who do stupid things. They are leaving their chances to fate. I'm not saying I should add to it. But I suppose I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. But technically I did breed a bottom in a sling at a sex club recently after I became poz a year ago. His ass was dripping cum. Maybe he was neg, maybe he was poz. To me he was a hole and a damn good one. To him, I was just a cock another raw cock. Although nothing was said, I've been there before. I knew what he was thinking.

I see the main gist of what you're saying. Yes, if someone at a bath house or club comes up and says "Hey you clean?" when it comes to fucking. I'm not going to lie and say, "yeah. I'll fuck ya bare.". I'll say, "Yeah I'm clean and positive. Cleanest type." There is always a bit of stigma and rejection at clubs. The poster was a little peeved that the dude ignored him at first and then got high and wanted dick. People make bad judgement calls in sex clubs it's fucking human and animalistic sometimes there.

Can you agree that we poz men SHOULD if someone asks if we're clean, tell them the truth and that we are poz and let them decide. Because I agree with that. But if a bottom is fucked up from being high or drunk and taking loads. I don't think I'd lie. But if he doesn't ask his cumhole is fair game to me. I was once stupid enough to ask guys if they were clean or negative when I took bare loads in clubs. I was dumbfuck back then. And no I'm not vengeful. I don't wish this on anyone, but I believe in actions and consequences. Of my own and others.

Yes, and no. I know plenty of guys that go to the baths that I wouldnt describe as whores or pigs. In fact most I know use condoms there. So this is one reason it bothers me that people want to describe the baths as a free for all where anything goes and you should just accept getting HIV, because no one will use condoms or discuss status, and even if they do its okay for them to lie because its the baths. Hell I have been to bathhouses numerous times and havent ever hooked up beyond making out and touching, so not everyone is there to collect cum.

You make a good point. I've known guys that go there just to jack off. But you need to understand that if you see a guy taking nothing but raw cock that in some ways he is fair game. Now if someone just cruises you and wants to play and asks if you're clean, yes you should say you're poz and be honest. That's a person not a cumdump. But, I can see also why some guys would just say, "Yeah I'm clean" and fuck them and poz them. It's a mixed things because I can't completely blame the poz top or the naive bottom. Some people will to the T take "you're word" or whatever you say as truth and your decision. And some won't. I think guys need to be more educated before they visit the baths. But that's not something you or I can control. I personally will tell a guy I'm positive even if he asks if I'm clean.

However, as someone pointed out before there can be judgement laps in bath houses and sex clubs and a mistake could be made for either a neg guy or poz guy. And that's part of being human and the atmosphere of a bath house. I understand that some guys go there and don't even want to get fucked. But they don't call them "ADULT" clubs for nothing. There is a risk going into a bath house even if you don't want to get fucked. I almost got raped in one once. The guy would not take "NO" for an answer. Was that fair for me? No? Did I deserve it? I'm not sure. But I was in a place that's about sex, lust, desire, and animalistic pleasure and hedonism. It's a fucking pandora's box and I got in that situation. If I wanted to be completely safe I'd stay at home. He didn't penetrate me but he tried.

I doubt you do, but the people on here that dont know my responses probably think I am just some nut out to make poz guys life miserable, and thats not the case. I respond to these threads because I believe in disclosure during sex. I have been lied to about status before and got calls from the health department about guys I fucked who tested HIV+ With PrEP its much less of a worry, but I still like to be informed, and really status doesnt bother me. Yes I may be in the minority on that, but there are neg guys out there who are open to poz men. The construction guy sounds like he is just uneducated. Could he sue? yeah but it would get thrown out immediately, just like probably any bathhouse case would. However like I stated before IMO that doesnt make bathhouses a free for all where its okay to lie.

Your last comment actually made me think the most. I dont think HIV+ people are "fucked" but they really do have to do a lot more when it comes to sex, and life in general. What bothers me about this forum the most is the glorification of HIV. They tend to ignore all the bad aspects of HIV infection while vastly inflating the idea of carefree sex. It still boggles my mind that anyone considers HIV freeing, when its a lifelong illness that makes you dependent on medication, and people will discriminate against you for it. A good friend of mine has been seeing a guy for 4 months, and they havent had sex. For him its under the guise of "waiting" but in reality hes HIV+ and scared shitless to get rejected by the guy cause he really likes him.

In my time in outreach and testing as well as through friends, lovers, and hookups I have probably met hundreds if not thousands of HIV+ people, and not one ever said they are glad it happened. The ONLY time I ever hear that is on here through a screen, so it makes it very difficult to believe.

This sounds like a downer statement, and I'm sorry because I dont mean for it to be, but I think way too many people in here dont hear what the guys that have lived through the worst of it are saying. Bearbandit, and poz1956 have a perspective that few on here seem to realize. They are from a generation that died off, and now they are at an age where they can fully see the "negative" side of things as older men who are still alive and now healthy.

There is an older guy I am hooking up with right now who is undetectable. Im 30, hes 46, and looks probably 35. What gets me everytime about him that despite being healthy is that its obvious HIV weighs on him. Its a profound image of a person who at first glance has a great life, but has been relegated to certain things he really didnt want because of HIV. He doesnt have a husband despite wanting one because of dating issues; he kept the job he has longer that he's wanted to keep decent health insurance; He uses hookup apps where being HIV+ is more accepted despite wanting more than that.

HIV isnt a death sentence, and plenty of people live great happy lives with it, but it is something that will change every aspect of a persons life, and that just doesn't seem to enter into the mind of so many people on here.

Lastly as I thought about it more, the other reason non-disclosure bothers me so much is that I want to see a generation of men that DONT have to worry about HIV, and until we stop infecting each other its not gonna happen. The fantastic part now is that with early treatment, Tasp, and PrEP, we actually could see that in my lifetime, even without a cure. But its only gonna happen if we are honest with ourselves and others.

I'll be honest, I was starting to think that after reading your posts earlier. But reading more I believe you in that's not the case. I have to say I'm sorry that you got calls from the health department. I think it's chicken shit when guys tell a health worker to notify their sex partner. I've never had a health department do that when I was poz I told the guys "whose names I knew and had their numbers" I was poz and most were cool and some dropped me like a hot potato. I made the mistake though once of telling the health department the names and numbers of the guys who I slept with recently. They kind of harassed my friends. The fucking health lady even came to my house to find me when I wouldn't return her call because I was at work and couldn't take calls. She dropped a letter off at my apartment personally. Some of them are fucking nuts. Here on out, I'm saying it's anonymous. I know they have a job to do, but I also have a job to protect myself and those I care about. But I won't get into that too much. I have mixed feelings about PREP. I know some guys in my city who take it and take all the loads up their ass now. There is actually a council meeting on PREP in my city at emory university soon. I saw it advertised. I'm actually going to talk to an HIV nurse who is a friend of my friend soon. I've learned a lot more lately and have more questions about being poz.

To be honest, I know the law for GA. If it was a fucked up or homophobic judge it could easily get twisted and I could have my ass thrown in jail. I've seen racism from cops in Atlanta first hand in my city when I was with a friend. And I've heard stories of homophobia in midtown from cops. But that doesn't happen as much, at least I hope not. You're right it isn't a place where guys should lie. But they still will. Even ones who aren't poz.

I have to admit part of the fucked view is recent. You are right a lot of HIV+ is glorified on this forum. Because parts of this forum are for fantasy. Hell when I was first nervous about bbing and asking some people where honest and told me first hand what it's like having HIV and that it's not something I should want. I didn't want HIV but I knew that the path I was going on I'd have it. But to use condoms and play safe isn't who I am. Restraint isn't me. And I'm poz for it. I thought it was freeing and liberating at first even though I wasn't chasing. But I got a lot of back lash from people and unfortunately I was in a relationship for 8 months shortly after. To say I was shielded from stigma, rejection, and hard lessons is an understatement. Now that I'm single and poz, I feel like I've just become poz. I read a lot about gay history in the past, stonewall, and when AIDS came about. I've heard countless stories of experiences of guys during that time period too. But it really hit me when watching queer as folk lately all the homophobic characters in the show. The bashing, the cops, and amazed me the idea of a poz guy marrying a neg guy. Although, it's a safer sex encouraged show, there is a lot to it. Also, watching dallas buyers club got me thinking a lot too. I read a lot of bullshit and biased stories too when I looked up state laws relating to HIV decriminalization and it pissed me off.

You could say any bullshit, prejudice, discrimination, or fights that people go through I kind of take personally or on my own. Is it right of me to do it? Should I? I don't really know. I just know that gays and poz guys..no people have gone through so much so that someone in my age group can have so much more freedoms in life. And I don't want to disgrace that but I won't be dishonest to myself either. In some ways I want to be the best damn poz, gay, leathermen ever. Two experiences with neg guys now has been negative. I'm not entirely sure if I'll reject a neg guy that wants to date me. But the reality is there are some things that a neg guy can never understand about being poz. Whether that's a deal breaker for a relationship though is up to the two guys. Also, I truly believe that if a cure for HIV is never found. That someday all the medications will run out, or they won't be able to give them for free or to people with low income like they do now. And all us poz guys will be fucked. Not pleasant to think about, but nothing fuels me more to live in the now, to try to be stronger, and to be honest then the reality whether irrational or not, that one day I'm going to fucking die. And in that sense I will say, being poz has made me so much stronger. I've made myself free. That had nothing to do with being poz. That was done dealing with bullshit people and situations.

I agree with that as well. Every guy I've talked to in person cautioned me about catching HIV when I was neg. And once I was poz, no one I've talked to or been with is "glad" that they have it. Neither am I. But I accept it.

You need to understand that not everyone on here wants to debate, wants to read important perspectives, or go into detail. They want cock pics, ass pics, hot stories or sex chat type talk. And there's nothing wrong with that. But they don't want to know. It's a shame ya, but it's out there for them to read if they chose to. It can't be forced. And yes, they are both really inspiring. I can't believe that they have lived for as long as they lived with all the shit that used to come with being poz and how much worse it was. I kinda hope I'll live that long and I can see this generation's perspective on being poz and how much different it was from the previous. But more than anything, I'd like to do something if I can.

I'm really sorry to hear about the fact that you're older friend lives like that. But honestly, I don't think he's that way just because of HIV. I think that stems from something else as well. I'm sure if you were to ask gay guys out there how many of them have dating issues or nervousness, how many use hook up sites but want more, or keep a job for health benefits even if they are healthy would get an arena full of hands raised. That said, it doesn't make life easier. But with anything whether it's HIV if you let something control you or run you're life, then you are doing it to yourself. Doesn't mean it's easy or that the person should be disregarded. But he needs to realize that. But then again, I'm probably like a fucking ticking time bomb fucking as many guys as I can, taking as many loads as I can up the ass and having lots of sex. They say history repeats itself.

During the AIDS period it was more of the guys who were getting gangbanged and having orgies and sex parties. They, from what I understand where the ones who didn't make it to today. It was mostly the ones who skipped on that stuff and did other stuff who are alive today to tell about the friends they lost. But regardless of how long I live I refuse to live a compromised, secluded, or fearful live even if living in fear or caution will pro-long my life. But that's just because I want to truly LIVE and however long that is, is however long that is. But not everyone thinks like that or should to be honest.

If all the people on here see is stories about bug chasing and hiv verbal talk, "Yeah poz me daddy." "Fucking take my poz load boy". All they will see is the fantasy side. And they won't read on history or teach themselves about it. But someday, and I'm sure it will happen to everyone the weight of being poz and the effects it has on their lives and others will hit them hard. And it's going to fucking hurt. I can't tell you how crushed I was seeing the fear and hurt in my friend's eyes who I knew when I was younger. That they learned I was poz now and just seeing the way they looked at me. I fucking hated it. And that's something I'm going to have to deal with for life. How people look at me, whether they knew me or don't. But not everyone will have to deal with that initially because many turn a blind eye.

That sounds like a nurse's perspective. A lot of nurses and doctors want prep and medications and to help those who are HIV and prevent it from happening. But prevention is near impossible with the number of people who BB. But you are right, if people are honest about having an STD or HIV then they can find out their numbers soon, get treated, and it will probably help society as a whole. At the same time the way people are brought up, the situations they are put in through life, and the people they have or don't have will always make good decision making something very fucking vague. I honestly believe that doctors and nurses should tell people the truth about barebacking and how it feels better then condoms. Teaching the honesty of what barebacking is, why men do it, and what they live with or don't live with if they get an STD or HIV. And then the whole safe sex talk. The whole catholic approach to no sex until you're married has never really worked now has it?

Honesty will make this world a much better place, but people who are honest are few and in between. Really if you think of it, honest people are like a small light. But the rest of the bullshit of reality and live easily consumes the light or covers it. But not always completely. I don't really know if I'd be viewed as model poz citizen or not. I don't know if my views or ideals are right or wrong. But I'll stand by them. But I agree with you, I don't have a lot of hope for this current generation, the one I'm included in. I think we're all pretty fucked. But hopefully by being honest and meeting more people, I can do something to help.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

wood, what parts would you change?

[bbzh]

I've followed the sometimes long replies here and my view hasn't changed. If you don't want HIV, it's your responsibility to protect yourself, not someone else. Assume every dick you back up on is diseased, whether the owner of it knows or not. Period. And quite frankly, I disagree strongly with trying to shame or scare people into disclosing, whether it's on moral or legal grounds. If you want to tell people you're poz, then go right ahead, but keep in mind that you can't untell them. I get plenty of raw sex and I know exactly what to say to get it - without outright lying about my status. "I'm not sure" is what one of my poz undetectable buddies answers. It is technically a lie, but it is what all guys should say unless they know for sure their status (ie had no unsafe sex since their last neg test). Unless you are going to march the guy into a clinic with you to be tested together, everything we are discussing here is academic. It would be nice if people were honest about everything but they are not. I prefer raw sex and I waste no time in telling guys that they will be unsuccessful with me if they are looking for a safe sex encounter. And you're not going to quiz me or lecture me on my sex life. There are plenty of other choices, so choose someone else who values what you value.

[wood]

wood, what parts would you change?

lol A lot has happened in this thread, can you be more specific?

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Wood; at this point no. Sorry. While I was writing that fuckboy20's lengthy post hit, followed by bbzh.

I rather wish muslmtl had responded with a question something like "more to the point, are you?" rather than lie. While pozzies are well advised to disclose, bbzh raised an excellent point; that neggies should assume any sexmate is poz - or of opposite HIV status. The majority of conversions are done by neggies, not pozzies. Once we let that sink in, it is up to someone who is neg to remain that way, not to believe blindly as in the DDF youtube vid.

[fuckboy20]

I claim prior art on the first one. In a part bitching, part educational profile I wrote on December 1, 2013, and posted on Squirt I noted

Damn, I like that one. If I ever make a band or something, can I get the rights from you to call my band, "The Pozzies"? I claim rights to mine "Safers". I came up with it a while back. Totally gonna patent it.

I didn't know that was the reason for it. But I know currently most doctors or nurses call it "safer" sex. Since there is always the risk of condoms breaking or something happening. Yet, I love how when I became poz the doctor recommended I go out and have a lot of sex and use a condom and be young, healthy, and cute, and have sex with as many guys as I want as long as I use a condom. Although a bit younger, one once told me the safest sex is "oral sex". And have lots of oral. Although, one of my former partners got poz because he had dental work done and went to the bath houses and sucked off someone who was poz. Not the smartest thing to do. I don't know if the guy told him he was or not. I've only known one guy EVER ONE who put a condom on my cock when he sucked me. I wanted to ask him if he was from one of those sex ed videos or something. It was fucking horrible by the way.

By the way, I've never really noticed you before but your posts and views on being poz are incredible.

As a Neg person it is very easy to say that. And yes that's what some of the laws are writtem. Others are so vague that there are Poz people in jail for spitting, mutual masturbation, or getting fucked with a condom. The law where I live says that there must be a "realistic possibility of infection." BB would constitute that of course.

I haven't taken much of a step into barebacking yet. Just a couple of times with other Pozzies so far. So most my comments are in the context of Safe Sex.

Morally, I feel that advising a partner of my status is the correct thing to do. In the real, world most Neg guys are so totally lacking in knowledge, that I have to teach HIV 101 almost every time I disclose. That's a buzz kill. Many Neggies totally freak at the mere mention of a guy being Poz. There are only so many times you handle being told "You're trying to Murder me", being called a Psychopath, having immediate moral judgment passed based on nothing more than three letters and a mathematical symbol, or receiving some other "Ewww, Icccck" response. You really begin to question "Is honest the best policy?" I'll spell out the whole story in the "worst reactions" thread, but I've had one case where I disclosed online before sex. The guy agreed to meet, but it was a set-up for a bashing, because I had revealed my status. Some Neggies are INSANE when it come to HIV.

So in theory, a Pozzie should disclose ahead of time, because in theory, the Neg guy is educated, discusses it calmly, will make a logical decision, and give informed consent. Or maybe he'll politely decline the encounter. In theory, we should be treated exactly the same as a Neg guy. In theory, we wouldn't be constantly pummelled with Stigma, that sometimes boarders on hate speach.

In reality, it means I'm left alone, with my dick in my hands, my self esteem is shattered, and kicked to the curb like yesterday's trash.

It's all well and good to say "There's plenty of fish in the sea," if you live in the ocean of a large city, or are in a bathhouse that's full to capacity. But if you're an old trout in a little pond, and opportunities don't come along very often, the "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" internal debate becomes much more difficult.

I dare any Neg guy out there to tell the next ten people he tries to hook up with that he isn't "Clean" - that he's Poz. Wait until it's a there is agreement to get naked and nasty, or until you're face to face before you reveal your "secret." It will be easy for you to say it because you know it's not true. I think it would be a good experience for you to see and feel how the real world reacts. Then some of you might know why it's is a difficult conversation to start.

I used to say I've never lied when I've been asked. A mid-20's "straight" guy wanted to suck his first dick. He didn't ask, and I didn't tell. He only sucked on it for a few minutes, and I didn't cum in his mouth. Afterwards, on the way back to the car from the little wooded patch we'd been in, he said "I suppose I should have asked this before. Are you clean." I had a little panic attach, got flushed, felt like I was going to pass out, and said "You're fine!" (Undetectable Pozzie, on an ARV that has an even higher concentration in the genital track than in the blood, not much of a pre-cum leaker, oral only - Zero risk to him - he Was fine. Yea, all of it is self-justification BS.)

If the other guy advertises that he is a Pozzie, I don't think I need to discuss it with him. BB with a Neg guy, yes I do think there needs to be informed consent. Especially if the Pozzie isn't on meds. It begins to get a bit grey, in the undetectable bottom, anon situations, using a blind folded cum-dump bottom, Dark room, undiscussed at a bathhouse, etc. Haven't most of our education campaigns said "Always assume the other guy is HIV Pozitive." Isn't that what the MuscMtl was doing? The PSA's should have said, "Always assume the other guy has the Opposite HIV status."

But can we excuse complete abdication of personal responsibility on the Neg guy's part? If it's THEIR ass that THEY wast to keep Negative, then THEY have EQUAL responsibility to start the conversation. When they don't ask the REAL question, and instead use a childish, hipster euphemism, why must we interpret the word as only one of a dozen possible meanings? Constantly blaming the Pozzie is BS. But of course the laws assume that the Neggie is an uninvolved bystander, and a completely innocent victim of the predatory Pozzie. The legal system treats the Pozzie as guilty until proven innocent.

Why can't a Poz guy be caught up in the moment, thinking with the wrong head, judgment clowned by hormones, and for that moment just be a NORMAL sexual being? Instead, he's expected to view himself as a walking petri dish, full of disease, with the weight of the world on his shoulders, having God like self-control, be psychic in reading the other guy's mind, and always be 100% responsible. That makes as much logical sense as expecting everyone to use a condom 100% of the time. I'm tired of being the Neg guy's brain, and doing his thinking for him.

I can completely understand you not having much bb sex with safers yet and just pozzies right now. It's a lot safer on many levels. And you don't have to deal with a lot of vague shit if you just have sex with poz guys. Or for that matter be in an LTR with one. Some do that as a way of coping.

LOL HIV 101. I see myself doing that too. I had to tell the construction worker guy that it's a lot safer if he tops. But after he realized I was being honest about poz he just said, "You scare me." and sent me away. Nothing I could have done or said would have budged him. I'm so sorry that you got set up for a bashing. I've never really thought much of bashings until seeing them in shows recently. I never imagined how bad they can actually be. But now that the thought is in my head whether they are real or not, or still happen it's pretty fucking scary. I hope you didn't get hurt too bad.

LOL. Neggies. Much win. I haven't seen insane neggies yet but I'll take you're word for it. I hope not to, but I'm sure it will happen. Someone once warned me to never tell anyone I'm poz because some guys aren't cool about it. I'm sure I'll be lying in a gutter somewhere. Too fucking honest for my own damn good.

I'm sorry that you've lived in a small area too. I can certainly understand the don't ask but don't tell theory if there are no fish in the pond even more so. I think I told someone once I BB at a bar when we were talking and he fucking called me on it shouting and screaming that it's unsafe and that I'm going to get poz. I defended myself and what I did, right there in front of everyone. If I was poz. I bet he would have taken a fucking swing at me. Dude was apeshit. I'm sorry that some experiences have left you with confidence shattered and alone with your dick in you're hand. There is enough of life to do that. Don't need something more. I haven't yet got to experience being turned down at bars or places or facing the stigma of guys saying "FUCKING POZ" or something like that. But if I'm honest then I'm sure there is plenty of hell for me, just like you've gone through. But as you say, in theory the guy should react rationally and understand. I really hope that being poz doesn't shatter my confidence from being rejected or hurt by guys who don't understand. I'm glad you shared you're experienced, I have something to sort of prepare and strengthen myself for so I don't let them get to me when it happens.

You aren't alone in that experience. I think at the bookstore when the guy fucked me and I told him I was poz. I did suck a few guys there and I didn't say. But...but blowjob isn't sex. It's still wrong and I should have said something. But i was afraid of being rejected from something simple like blowing a guy. But...he'll understand and appreciate you're honest and know that a blowjob isn't a big deal. I don't know if I'll tell guys I'm poz if I just blow them. I haven't thought about that one. Just some guys hearing poz will make them go bat shit crazy. But that's something you've been through and I'll have to as well.

Why can't a Poz guy be caught up in the moment, thinking with the wrong head, judgment clowned by hormones, and for that moment just be a NORMAL sexual being? Instead, he's expected to view himself as a walking petri dish, full of disease, with the weight of the world on his shoulders, having God like self-control, be psychic in reading the other guy's mind, and always be 100% responsible. That makes as much logical sense as expecting everyone to use a condom 100% of the time. I'm tired of being the Neg guy's brain, and doing his thinking for him.

...I think I'll eventually feel that way someday. It's completely justified the way you feel. But I'm sure it's horrible to fully realize it. That is one of the most honest and truthful things I've seen someone post about being poz. Thank you for that...really thank you.

You don't think Pozzies realize that? We've had it blasted in our fucking face for 32 years. We get it ground in our noses at every doctors visit. Every news story paints us all as raving lunatics. Maybe the TALK here is rebellion for all the Neggies, who take every opportunity to call us Dirty, Diseased, Unhealthy, Unhygenic, and Disgusting.

For some reason the first thought that enters the mind for a large portion of Neggies is "You're mad as hell at the world for getting HIV, and you're trying to get even by infecting as many people as possible." I've always wondered about those guys. Is that what they'd do if they got it? They thought of it first. Remind me again, which one of us is supposed to be the sociopath?

To quote Stan Lee / Spiderman "With great power, comes great responsibility." And the power to Poz is definitely a great power. Well it's actually a pretty crappy power that I wish I didn't have. With thinking that, I guess it puts me on the same level as every conflicted superhero in the comic book universe. But as an undetectable Pozzie, do I even possess that power? I know what I am, and the stigma from it has sucked most of the joy and fun out of my sex life for 28 years.

After reading on here, the prevalence of Stealther / Gift Giver / Bug Chaser (and hearing what they want to do after they've caught it) , I'm beginning to wonder if the paranoid Neggies just might have a point. It scares the shit out of me. I sure hope it's mostly just fantasy. It is NOT representative of most Pozzies.

I never thought about that but you're probably right. Those god fearing, judgmental neggies who view pozzies as sickly and disease ridden. If they were to ever become poz. God help us all. They'll probably take it out on the fucking world.

That is a beautiful comparison. You're right being poz is like having a power, a curse, or mark. However you want to interpret it. Not something any of us wanted. Most at least. Even undetectable you have that power. And here is why. What people fear, respect, worship, live by isn't so much something that's physical. It's more of an idea, belief, or something that is felt more then seen. Not just talking about people's belief in relgion...WHICH I WILL NOT GET INTO. Just the power in the words "I am poz" regardless if you are undetectable or not. It will still fill many people with hatred, fear, confusion, desire, or unknown. Just that idea of being poz is strong enough and effects people. The undetectable and all that to most is just a useless tag. I'm sorry...really sorry that it's messed with you're sex life for 28 years. I'll do the best to NOT let that happen to me. If I can. Still what you said earlier...damn that's going to get to me later I'm sure.

Unfortunately there really are some out there. Hell there are guys who stealth even who are neg. There are dark or unknown aspects you could call it. Hidden message boards, groups, shit like that. Just because you don't like to think about them they are out there. Maybe not so much in numbers or vocal presence. Probably very divided. But still out there. I'll make one final comment on this and to you about being poz.

When I saw my friends of my friends at the bar last saturday. I spent christmas with them, one of them gave me a leather jacket saying I earned from how hard I've been working, my honor, integrity, respect, and how much I've grown. Seeing the distraught, concern, and disappointment in their eyes when they found out I was poz really fucking hurt. I was out of it at that point and spiraled quickly into depression in the bar. I was silent and lost in my thoughts. Thinking back to the former Master who built me up and then dropped me. To when I was safer and neggie and how bb sex disguisted me. And how just one guy and my Master mutilated my idea of a relationship being about love and honesty. I just wanted to go back to that point and stop myself from meeting the guy who stealthed me and in some ways the Master who stopped having sex with me and a relationship even though I was his boy. I thought if I went with the other couple who wanted me to be their boy I think I'd be a lot different then neg. But they reminded me that they still love me and care about me and regardless of what anyone says about me being positive or being sick I can't let that get to me. I still have people who care about me and that's what matters.

And although now I've fully realized that in many aspects I wish I wasn't poz. I'm going to do my best to not let it get to me. But I can't help wondering what kind of a different person I'd be if I never thought of BB sex in my mind and it being a fetish. So instead I'll focus on who and what I can become today.

But thank you really, I know you were responding to the other guy but everything you wrote really helped me and made me think quite a bit. I'm glad that guys like you, bearbandit, and others have survived and made it to today. Despite everything you've had to endure.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

fuckboy20: It's a virus, not the mark of *****; although many seem to go out of their way to make poz guys as lepers. Those of us who have been around long enough to have worked crisis lines during the height of the crisis; who lost many friends before there was treatment understand that HIV is just a virus. No moral overtones apply. Poz1956 isn't lying about status although it occurs to him he would get laid more if he did. Ditto with bearbandit. I would gladly fuck with either one of them not for any romanticized chaser dream, but because the twin benefits of TasP and PrEP works in our favor, and even more, I really like WHO they are.

[fuckboy20]

fuckboy20: It's a virus, not the mark of *****; although many seem to go out of their way to make poz guys as lepers. Those of us who have been around long enough to have worked crisis lines during the height of the crisis; who lost many friends before there was treatment understand that HIV is just a virus. No moral overtones apply. Poz1956 isn't lying about status although it occurs to him he would get laid more if he did. Ditto with bearbandit. I would gladly fuck with either one of them not for any romanticized chaser dream, but because the twin benefits of TasP and PrEP works in our favor, and even more, I really like WHO they are.

I do apologize for getting personal and getting way too lengthy. I was somewhat inspired, hurt, and educated. Lots of strong feelings. It might not be the mark of **** now but it used to be and guys like bearbandit and poz1956 have been through it and lived with it. Part of it is uncertainty if I'll live through a similar thing they did. But things are changing and people's view is a bit different then what it used to be. It's a fear of uncertaintity you could say. Didn't mean to project it so vocally and lengthy though. I know poz1956 isn't lying about status. But he's right about the blowjob aspect. A guy blows you or blow them you don't even think about status. But if they happen to ask it's hard to know what the right thing to do is. You don't want to freak them out and have them react in a bad way. But you feel guilty that you didn't say anything but more of the fact that you should have to. That's how I interpreted what he said. I do believe you probably get laid as a poz guy more if you're honest and state it. I have it in all my profiles even growlr.

I completely agree with BBHZ too and you about neggers needing to have personal responsibility. But looking at it in "Woods" perspective which is a very realistic one. A poz man is still found guilty if he has sex with a negger and doesn't disclose status or vague word like "Clean". Regardless of the situation. That was also poz1959's comment about it being unfair and tiresome for poz men to be the "conscious or mind" for neggers making sure they don't make a mistake. It's not a poz guy's job to make sure a neg guy doesn't get infected. But in the eyes of the law and society it is. It's that pressure of being poz and knowing that which I'm sure is very heavy. Something I haven't experienced yet but sure in time I will.

But everyone's perspective and view is important. I can understate and relate to most views that have been said. And it really all comes down to one's view and choices. But I do agree that poz guys shouldn't be held responsible to make sure they wear a fucking neon sign that says "I'm fucking poz" so that way the neggers can clearly and soberly see that they are poz and understand. Bit of exaggeration I know. Thank you JizzDUMPWI. I appreciate the response. Sorry I fucked up some of yours and the others postings too. Wasn't trying to crash anything. But wood wants to talk about being a killjoy. I've been known to kill threads before with constant text walls. Never intentionally though.

[wood]

And although now I've fully realized that in many aspects I wish I wasn't poz. I'm going to do my best to not let it get to me. But I can't help wondering what kind of a different person I'd be if I never thought of BB sex in my mind and it being a fetish. So instead I'll focus on who and what I can become today.

I will eventually get around to responding to all of your thread, but this did strike me. I have never thought about "bareback" sex as a fetish. I have always just viewed it as sex. I know bearbandit has said the same thing before. I say this because I have always found there is a disconnect in the gay community about sex without condoms. Straight people dont say "OMG did you bareback her!?!" or "yeah breed me!!" Its just sex. Sex without a rubber? yeah so? I wanted the more intimate feeling. I guess I just fail to see how something that comes naturally to animals (sex) is fetishised for using something thats not natural. Additionally, as you alluded to before the same people that may vilify you in public about not using protection are the same ones who wont always use condoms themselves. Its a really wierd dynamic, that I honestly think has a lot to do with why HIV is transmitted.