Need to disclose

[kinky_hot]

I've had this thing lately with whether there's a need to disclose your HIV+ status depending on the situation.

First, the facts: I'm HIV+, consistently undetectable; in my country, the most common practice regarding HIV in sex is "don't ask don't tell"; also, it's not so common so be prosecuted for allegedly passing on HIV, actually you don't need to disclose if you keep it safe.

My opinion is that in those circumstances in which you effectively show and display a total disregard and lack of interest for your sex mates' statuses, it is obvious that you can and will surely be HIV+. Or that you don't know, hence you could be.

Hence: in a darkroom, sex club or sauna, if I'm taking or giving loads like there's no tomorrow, then I'm HIV+; or when cruising, if I bend, open my cheeks, reach my poppers and offer you my pre-lubed hole, then I'm HIV+.

However, I've found that for negatives, it's just the opposite. They imply that you have nothing to warn against.

From past experience: I made a profile in a sex/dating mobile app that was named "bareback". I met a guy, I breed him once or twice, every week, for two months. He never asked about my status. Neither did I about his. To me, that would lead me to imply that he's HIV+, and that so am I. However, he was not the HIV+ type (! LOL), nor the reckless HIV- one... but obviously he's one of them, or both!

He recently asked me and I said that my last tests were fine (well undetectable is my "fine"); and he said that so were his. Wtf, whatever.

What do you think about all this? Do you ALWAYS disclose? Even in a darkroom? Can you expect, in an orgy, to not catch any STD?

[rawTOP]

There are two questions - first legal - do whatever the law requires in your area.

Second is a moral question and I think most of the guys here would agree that you 1) should always answer honestly when asked, 2) never pretend your neg when you're poz. But there would be disagreement when it comes to whether you should pro-actively tell guys you're poz. In an anonymous sex situation I think most everyone would say it's not required, but the opinions will vary when it comes to less-anonymous situations.

Personally I have no problem with a poz guy not bringing it up. IMHO, it's the neg guy's responsibility to take care of his own health. Others will say poz guys should disclose, but to those people I'd say why? If the poz guy is undetectable there's no risk of transmission.

[TigerMilner]

First, I have to say that if you bareback, you get what you get and it's no one else's fault. Own it. Secondly, I have found that if it is a "date" situation that will lead to at least knowing the guy, I disclose upfront. I don't like waiting, then getting rejected after I'm invested. If I'm getting rejected, do it upfront before I care at all. That also keeps me within legal requirements. I put it in hookup ads as well. I don't want guys wasting my time if they are not into undetectable (because it also shows me they are stupid). So even in that anonymous situation, I still put it out there upfront. I really don't feel it is anything I need to hide.

Now, If I am doing a sex party or visiting a bath house, or Slammers, well, there is no time for conversation. I think everyone assumes you are poz and they probably are too, or are on prep, or just don't care. So in those settings, no I don't say anything. Belleve it or not, I don't think it is even appropriate. I have done these things many many times and come away without catching any std's. In fact, I rarely do. But it only takes one guy. It happens.

[wood]

This has been covered here more than a few times, and as rawtop stated depending on where you are there very well may be a legal requirement to disclose.

Personally I believe in disclosure and communication about sex. One of the reasons I am not into bathhouses is that my desire to have sex with a completely random person is very low. Bathhouses also present a unique issue in that they are purely based on just having sex, not communicating. Do I think you should disclose in those situations? probably, but I am also probably being idealistic.

The main thing is that everyone should protect and educate themselves in the way they see fit. Its hard to feel bad for a guy who is ass up at a bathhouse taking nut from anyone and then becomes HIV+

We are also entering a somewhat unique time where HIV+ undetectable people are starting to show that they are lower risk that "neg" guys who don't get tested enough. If it was a one on one situation outside of a bathhouse I would disclose at all times. People talk, and even if you dont infect someone it could be huge hassle maybe even legally if you do not disclose your status.

Lastly my main other reason for advocating disclosure is because NOT talking about HIV/AIDS is one of the reasons we are seeing a rise in infections. be it HIV- or HIV+ people, gay men in general simply dont talk about our sexual health anymore and make silly assumptions instead of having meaningful dialogue

[Poz1956]

What you describe is a classic case of suroguessing. Based actions (or doing nothing) people assume the other guy has the same status as themselves.

You think he must be Poz because he didn't ask, or pull out a condom. Poz guys think that if their status was important to him, the other guy would ask.

The other guy thinks you must be Neg, because you didn't disclose your status, or pull out a condom. Most Neg guys think it is the Pozzie's job to start that conversation.

In an ideal world we could easily have a nonjudgmental open conversation about about status, last test date, testing frequency, and for Poz guys, their viral load. But we don't live that fairy tale land.

In the real world we are treated like we're radioactive. The nelly little faggot goes screaming from the room, with his wrists flapping faster than a humming bird's wings. Guys who claim to want Honesty, Truth, and Sincerity, immediately punish the Poz guy when he gives them exactly what they asked for. Neg guys continually give us "Negative Reinforcement." I may sound poetic, but it's not justice. Is it any wonder we retreat to "Don't Ask - Don't Tell." It may not be morally correct, but neither is continual bashing, judgment, and Stigma that "Think they're Clean" guys level at all Pozzies.

Somehow we need to educate the "Serostatus Unknown" guys, that catching HIV from a Poz undetectable is extremely unlikely. If they contract HIV, it will be from a "D & D Free" guy, who isn't quite as "D Free" as he thought. Most research is saying that at least 50% of new infections are from guys in the Primary/Acute phase, who don't even know they are Poz. Most of the rest are from chronic phase guys unaware of their HIV status. Estimates are that 10% are from guys who know they are Poz, but not on treatment.

I saw a guy on BBRT the other night, who says he's on PrEP. Perhaps I'm confused, but I would think a Canadian guy, who had to work at getting on PrEP, would actually know something about HIV transmission. But he advertises Neg on PrEP, for Neg only. I want to say to him "Dude, you're serosorting to the wrong guys!"

Edited May 7, 2014 by Poz1956

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Just hearing that amongst current USA High School graduates; 39% cannot pass reading tests, and 26% cannot pass math tests. Given that result how can they possibly understand any of this? We are in deep troubles if we don't improve quality of education. No wonder their sex ed is faulty.

[Rayne]

My typical opinion... which not everyone will agree with, by any means:

Personally, if someone were to knock me out, rape me, give me every STD in the book, leave me in an alley, and left a note saying "You're a boring fuck," I wouldn't place blame on anyone. Not on myself, not on the person who raped me; nobody. Blame is only there to make a person feel better, just like rationalisations. Even if the courts throw a guy in jail for infecting and exposing many to HIV, it doesn't cure anyone's diseases. The idea of "justice" with STDs is a pathetic one that many people hold, and therefore we have a law that makes us obligated to disclose status. If you do/don't comply with the law, that's on you; any legal ramifications are because you didn't obey the law, regardless of how often someone might "get away" with such an act.

Now, concerning the situation without regards to the legal system, this is how I would think about things- if you're having sex, with OR without protection, and you contract ANY kind of illness, it should be considered a risk of having sex. Placing blame on someone for not mentioning their status is a lame attempt to alleviate yourself from taking responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility to protect YOUR body, and not anyone else; unless, of course, you are incapable of taking care of yourself for obvious reasons. There's a couple lines of dialogue from House MD that I think explains this kind of situation very well...

"And when bad things happen, we should figure out what went wrong so we can learn from it and correct it."

"So we can assign blame, instead of recognizing that bad things sometimes happen. It was nobody's fault."

Can you expect to not catch something, ever? No. Sex is a risky activity, just like pulling a stranger from a car wreck or a collapsed building. The problem with sex is that too many people won't take responsibility for their sexual actions, because they feel it's one of those things society has fucked around with; we've learned that promiscuity is 'wrong', instead of a natural thing that should be handled with care. Right now, even though I've tested clean, I don't disclose status unless I'm prompted for it. If I ever contract an STD, the only change will be for certain scenarios. I hate to sound like a cunt, but it isn't my fault if I forget to mention an STD, or DID and the other person didn't hear me because they were too horny to bother listening. The idea that someone with an STD has to mention their status raises a better question than "should you?".... When do you bring it up? At what point do you bring it up? When you're about to orgasm, before your clothes come off, or after the blowjob? What if you went to a party, it and turns into an orgy? At what point do you bring up your status, or do you avoid sexual conduct at all? I could go a bit further, but I don't really know if many would find it relevant.

[hungry_hole]

I still don't understand why the issue of disclosure is still being discussed. Those who want to decrease the chances of HIV infection should make sure to know their sexual partners as much as possible. Of course, say goodbye to pump & dumps, gangbangs in saunas, etc.

By knowing your sexual partners you increase communication and decrease any kind of STI. I've had regular fuck buddies who have got in touch with me when they have any STI, including HIV. But in anonymous settings I know I'm on my own and I can only rely on luck.

This has been covered here more than a few times, ...Do I think you should disclose in those situations? probably, but I am also probably being idealistic.

Here's an example. An HIV+ guys walks into a darkroom. What do you expect him to do? Should he announce to everyone in the room that he's a poz?

Total

[Rayne]

Here's an example. An HIV+ guys walks into a darkroom. What do you expect him to do? Should he announce to everyone in the room that he's a poz?

The politician would say yes. The pig would tell him to shut up and stick it in. The wary guy would ask for a rubber. The guy who's afraid of sniffles would bolt.

Did I miss anyone? lol

[Poz1956]

When do you bring it up? At what point do you bring it up? When you're about to orgasm, before your clothes come off, or after the blowjob? What if you went to a party, it and turns into an orgy? At what point do you bring up your status, or do you avoid sexual conduct at all?

According the the Canadian "Male Call" survey (45 minute telephone interviews):

• 56.2% want to know when they first meet
  
• Because 49% agree with the statement "I would never have sex with a man who is HIV Positive, even if I am very attracted to him."
  
• 84.5% expect a casual sexual partner to reveal his status if he is Poz
  
• 87.4% agreed with the statement "In order to know a partner's status for certain, it is an individual's responsibility to ask his partner's status." If they feel that strongly, why don't THEY bring up the topic? I love the word "certain" in that question. Like it even crosses the mind of any "Neg" guy, that he is actually "Serostatus Unknown!"
  
• Yet 98.4% agreed that both sexual partners are EQUALLY responsible for preventing HIV transmission.
  

Guys feel it is important to know their partner's status when engaging in:

• 43.3% before Mutual Masturbation (Zero risk)
  
• 75.4% before Oral Sex (Getting Sucked: Zero risk. Sucker: With no oral health care issues = Negligible risk.)
  
• 84.4% before Protected Anal Sex (Undetectable = Negligible risk. Surostatus or VL Unknown = Low risk )
  
• 96.3% before Unprotected Anal Sex (Depending on position, knowledge of your actual surostatus, and viral load: risk ranges from Negligible, to High)
  

Most guys have an urgency to know someone's status, that is WAY out of proportion with the actual risk of exposure.

Here's an example. An HIV+ guys walks into a darkroom. What do you expect him to do? Should he announce to everyone in the room that he's a poz?

Do they make Glow in the Dark Tattoo ink?

[rawTOP]

I still don't understand why the issue of disclosure is still being discussed.

Because guys are being put in prison for not telling.

When I hooked up with a fuckbuddy of mine the other day he was saying that there's been a big change in the leadership of ACT/UP in the past year. The new ACT/UP has decriminalization of HIV as one of their main goals. In this day and age no one should be put in jail for not disclosing.

[Poz1956]

Did I miss anyone?

The evangelical Christian would scream "You are all going to burn in hell."

Eternal damnation for a homophobic Christian would be chained naked and doggy style, with his mouth to a glory hole, and ass available for constant use by Monster dicked S_atin and his well hung minions.

I remember an episode of Night Gallery where the devil says, "The funny thing is, there is a room just like this up in Heaven." How's that as an eternal reward for a good little piggy?

Why does the message board software replace that S_ word with *****?

[Poz1956]

Because guys are being put in prison for not telling.

...

In this day and age no one should be put in jail for not disclosing.

The Global Commission on HIV and the Law recommends “Repeal punitive laws” and “Enact no laws that explicitly criminalise HIV transmission, exposure or non-disclosure of HIV status” as they are counterproductive in the global fight against HIV. Edited May 8, 2014 by Poz1956

[hungry_hole]

In response to my question about the ongoing discussion about disclosure:

Because guys are being put in prison for not telling.

But no poz guy will be put in prison for lying or stealthing someone on a sling or a darkroom or with his ass up on the air in his room at a sauna. It would be like complaining to the police that your car was stolen when you left it running and doors open while parked on the street. The first thing the police will say is "That was dumb."

But I do object an HIV+ guy not disclosing his status once they have exchanged phone numbers or had coffee together.

I don't see what else can be said. Yes, it's illegal not to disclose an HIV+ status but so is stealing.

[kinky_hot]

According the the Canadian "Male Call" survey (45 minute telephone interviews):

[*]56.2% want to know when they first meet

[*]Because 49% agree with the statement "I would never have sex with a man who is HIV Positive, even if I am very attracted to him."

[...]

That reply was very informative. Thanks.