Buyers Remorse. Should I Go Off Prep?

[rawfuckr]

I think it's pretty clear to me now that I've totally become riskier in my encounters.

 

While before I was getting fucked raw quite often, I would always avoid people coming in me. After in what it feels a long time on PrEP I've started not too care too much and I've let a lot of guys come inside, and I'm starting to like it.

I'm really not sure this is a path I want to go down to. While it's fun and all, I'm aware that PrEP may not be 100% effective even when my perfect adherence. I really don't want to seroconvert so not sure what my options are. I'm thinking that maybe if I go off PrEP I'll 'feel' the risk much more and I'll either avoid condomless sex for a while or else. May not make sense, but the few times I've stopped PrEP I've really been succesful at not being risky, so maybe I should stop again for a while and reassess things. Any thoughts?

[fskn]

The evidence from the iPrEx-OLE study is 100% effectiveness at 4 or more doses per week, so if you adhere perfectly, your becoming Poz would be an aberration.

Have you had all available vaccinations? Are you concerned about the one STD for which there is no vaccine or cure, but only treatment -- herpes?

Beyond that, the IPERGAY study in France and Canada is examining intermittent use of Truvada for PrEP. Maybe you should wait for those results, so that if you do stop PrEP but do have risky sex occasionally, you'll know whether episodic use of Truvada will protect you.

[FatFuckPigMA]

You already have a "taste" for cum in your ass. Going off PrEP now will not change that and you'll likely find yourself still taking loads and at a considerably higher risk. Now if you like like the risk oif taking loads, that's one thing but it sounds like you don't.  So I would stay on PrEP for the time being.

[seaguy]

Almost every guy who I have heard from or seen share thier story has said that once they started taking loads bareback it was hard if not impossible to stop.  So unless you have some really strong willpower you'll probably end up slipping up and slowly but surely return to taking loads if you decide to go off PrEP and then stop taking loads.   The feeling of having someone cum in your ass is just too amazing an experience for many gay men to give up.  So I would stay on PrEP you can always try and only let undetectable guys cum in your ass that way you're reducing risk on top of the PrEP, or neg guys but then the whole when were they last tested thing comes up so not sure if that would end up doing much to reduce risk.

 

When you have stopped PrEP before and managed to not have risky sex how long was that?  Is your exposure to temptations any different now than those times?

Edited October 2, 2014 by seaguy

[rawfuckr]

The evidence from the iPrEx-OLE study is 100% effectiveness at 4 or more doses per week, so if you adhere perfectly, your becoming Poz would be an aberration.

 

This is not true.

 

Just because in this particular study people with >4 more doses did not seroconvert does not translate into 100% efficacy in the general case. It's all a matter of statistics, and there is a great summary of exactly this issue on this article:

Open-Label Oral PrEP at 4 Doses a Week: Why Zero Infections Does Not Equal 100% Efficacy ( http://goo.gl/yTHd8s )

 

From the article above, the actual efficacy after the number crunching for >4 doses a week is somewhere between 86% and 100%, which is good, but not 100% or anywhere close to it. Had the study run for a longer time, with more people they would have been able to narrow the number down to the real thing. This of course cost money and time.

People are making the mistake thinking that it's 100% even with perfect adherence. It's likely not, and folks should use PrEP knowing that the possibility of seroconverting is still there albeit reduced. Obviously if you are taking lots of loads your chances of seroconversion are nudged higher.

Edited October 2, 2014 by rawfuckr

[rawfuckr]

Almost every guy who I have heard from or seen share thier story has said that once they started taking loads bareback it was hard if not impossible to stop.  So unless you have some really strong willpower you'll probably end up slipping up and slowly but surely return to taking loads if you decide to go off PrEP and then stop taking loads.   The feeling of having someone cum in your ass is just too amazing an experience for many gay men to give up.  So I would stay on PrEP you can always try and only let undetectable guys cum in your ass that way you're reducing risk on top of the PrEP, or neg guys but then the whole when were they last tested thing comes up so not sure if that would end up doing much to reduce risk.

 

When you have stopped PrEP before and managed to not have risky sex how long was that?  Is your exposure to temptations any different now than those times?

 

Someone coming in my ass is fun and hot but not sure if I'd call it 'amazing'. I actually like to see guys coming, in my mouth, chest, wherever. But if I'm getting it having that ending is about as natural as it gets.

 

I've been on PrEP a few months here and there. I had sex only with my partner during those times, and was actually too busy for hookups so there was no chance for temptations.

 

I think you are on the right track about simply being pickier about who can come in me. Maybe neg guys and undetectable, or someone who I know quite well.

Edited October 2, 2014 by rawfuckr

[rawTOP]

This is not true.

…the actual efficacy after the number crunching for >4 doses a week is somewhere between 86% and 100%, which is good, but not 100% or anywhere close to it.

That's pretty much identical to the effectiveness of condoms. Yes the claim of 100% was bad, but the point is, PrEP works.

[wood]

 

This is not true.

 

Just because in this particular study people with >4 more doses did not seroconvert does not translate into 100% efficacy in the general case. It's all a matter of statistics, and there is a great summary of exactly this issue on this article:

Open-Label Oral PrEP at 4 Doses a Week: Why Zero Infections Does Not Equal 100% Efficacy ( http://goo.gl/yTHd8s )

 

From the article above, the actual efficacy after the number crunching for >4 doses a week is somewhere between 86% and 100%, which is good, but not 100% or anywhere close to it. Had the study run for a longer time, with more people they would have been able to narrow the number down to the real thing. This of course cost money and time.

People are making the mistake thinking that it's 100% even with perfect adherence. It's likely not, and folks should use PrEP knowing that the possibility of seroconverting is still there albeit reduced. Obviously if you are taking lots of loads your chances of seroconversion are nudged higher.

 

You are correct, however, going off PrEP, and assuming you are going to eliminate your risky sex is just silly.  You already said before, you "wouldn't let guys cum in you" but there are many guys who either will still cum in your, or just precum enough for there to be substantial risk.  

PrEP isnt perfect, but taken correctly it is VERY effective, is it 100%, no, almost nothing in life is 100%.  You may have increased your risk factors by going on PrEP, but you also substantially reduced your chance of infection.  

 

This is completely anecdotal, but I have a friend who was on PrEP, and stopped due to an insurance change.  He didn't investigate how to get it otherwise.  He was off for about two months, and in that time, he "reduced" his risk factors somewhat, but didn't change everything.  By the time he went back to get a checkup and back on PrEP, he had tested poz.  

 

The point is, unless you substantially change your risk profile, IE to cutting out stuff like any bottoming bare at all, you are much safer now on PrEP than you ever have been before.  So unless you plan on cutting out sex, I would stay on.  

[bearbandit]

 

Almost every guy who I have heard from or seen share thier story has said that once they started taking loads bareback it was hard if not impossible to stop.

Not necessarily true for everyone. I got pozzed in 1980 before we knew there was a virus. I had (all too) brief barebacking with partners who also had HIV and it's only in the past few years, since the death of my last husband, that I've made myself available again and have made the decision BB only. Personally I'd rather rather pass up on a fuck than have the rubber in the way.

If you don't have HIV, then truvada is your best protection against HIV - why stop what's working?

[rawfuckr]

If you don't have HIV, then truvada is your best protection against HIV - why stop what's working?

 

Well, my problem is that I'm a case of 'risk compensation'. Because I'm on Truvada I've become substantially riskier.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I guess you are making me realize, that even when in my head seems like I could drop PrEP and try to be safer that is likely an unrealistic scenario. I would be better of to continue on PrEP and try to manage my risk there better, poz UD, neg+prep guys...

[Pitt1988]

Hi rawfuckr, i think ive had questions b4 and u were one of the ones always answering my questions every time lol, i think you should stay on prep, i myself been debating for months now and refuse to hookup because i already know im either going to end up "dipping" or slipping up and fucking raw, and im a top, id bottom but most guys only last 5 minutes; but i know i have to go on prep because eventually BB porn wont be enough to satisfy my needs, it has only made me want and desire BB even more! so i wont even bother, but even though im only a top im uncut and more at risk of seroconverting; im about to become a trucker; and the prospect of breeding ass all over the country is exciting as fuck! so ive made up my mind to def go on prep; is your uninhibited escapedes and being a cum dump dump your only reason for wanting to stop it? have u had any nasty side effects? always remember it is better for u to have that extra layer of protection and slip up; than slip up and regret it forever

[rawfuckr]

is your uninhibited escapedes and being a cum dump dump your only reason for wanting to stop it? have u had any nasty side effects? always remember it is better for u to have that extra layer of protection and slip up; than slip up and regret it forever

 

This week I looked back what I did the last two weeks and I scared myself to death about the number of loads I had taken without realizing. This is very new territory for me. I sort of stopped caring about what I'm doing because I'm on PrEP, but when I pause and think about it's not clear I should be doing it.

As far as side effects, I never had a single one. I know about a dozen guys on PrEP and a guy or two complained about some belly problems at the beginning but went away quickly. Most people I know felt nothing. Seems like the drug is very well tolerated.

I'd advise anyone who is fucking raw to go on it, regardless of the conditions.

Edited October 3, 2014 by rawfuckr

[Pitt1988]

Do you feel remorse and guilt over taking so many loads? why don't you just stick with regulars or a few fuckbuddies? not all of us are cut out to be total sluts, i havent done much; and its like pulling teeth to get laid in the Pittsburgh area, i wonder how u can manage to get so many loads on one week lol? Most guys online chat and even plan but then its a dead end road, and im a decent looking guy, and hung; so its not like thats the reason, im 25 and  still haven't had a 3way lmao

[rawfuckr]

Do you feel remorse and guilt over taking so many loads? why don't you just stick with regulars or a few fuckbuddies? not all of us are cut out to be total sluts, i havent done much; and its like pulling teeth to get laid in the Pittsburgh area, i wonder how u can manage to get so many loads on one week lol? Most guys online chat and even plan but then its a dead end road, and im a decent looking guy, and hung; so its not like thats the reason, im 25 and  still haven't had a 3way lmao

 

Yes, I don't feel good about letting so many guys coming in my ass after the fact, although being on PrEP makes it easier.

 

I think where you live and the amount of gay people around you matters. I live in SF and if you wanted here you could be fucking all day non stop. There are always hot guys 1 mile away ready for action. While it's easy of thinking to try to get the number down, if you are using the GPS apps here they are almost always buzzing with people looking for action, it's difficult to avoid and not hook up if you are horny. I've hooked up many times in half an hour from the first message. It's that efficient. Looks are somewhat important, but if you are available and they are horny, sex will happen.

 

I'm somewhat older than you and I've had many 3ways, 4ways and everything in between. Sort of a miracle I'm still negative.

Edited October 3, 2014 by rawfuckr

[HereInLondon]

I don't think PrEP is the problem.

 

You could be having all these hook-ups without PrEP and using condoms consistently and (although you'd be significantly safer from most of the other STDS) I get the feeling you'd still be walking away feeling shitty.

 

You seem to be having sex when you don't really want to (you're a bit horny, so you go for it, you may as well) and not getting want you want from hook-ups (you say "I actually like to see guys coming, in my mouth, chest, wherever" yet you're letting guys cum in your arse - what's wrong with saying what you want? with getting what turns you on so you leave a session satisfied rather than worried and regretful?)

 

Like pretty much all the guys that have replied to your thread, I'd say stay on PrEP (you say "I've had many 3ways, 4ways and everything in between. Sort of a miracle I'm still negative" - so there's a reason you're on PrEP in the first place).

I'd look at getting some counselling, either specific to sexual health or more general.  Talk thru your attitudes to your own sexuality and how you want to relate to other gay men.

 

I'm on PrEP as well, only for five months now, and each time I think I've got my head around it, my thinking shifts, my boundaries shift, and I have re-(re-)assess what I'm doing.

I think of this as a transitional phase - compared to five months of PrEP, I've had years and years of trying to formulate and sustain a safer sex practice that was exclusively about condoms.  It's not all going to fall into place straight away.