Do courses on how to cruise successfully exist?

[shyguyuk]

Because I think I need one. I'm useless at it.

[BBBttmPete]

Go online...it is easy.

 

[shyguyuk]

I am online, scottop.

I've been on BBRT for seven years and have got exactly one hookup off it.

Grindr/scruff/other apps - Nowt.

I genuinely have no idea how to do this.

[rawtop78]

whats ur bbrts shyguy? and where in the UK?

 

ive actually had a few meets from here believe it or not most guys seem to just want endless chat on grindr etc

Edited January 22, 2017 by rawtop78
forgot to include my pic!

[shyguyuk]

http://www.barebackrt.com/members/view.php?id=81554

 

Just outside ipswich

[PhoenixGeoff]

1) Online hookup sites suck.  Especially if you live outside of a major city.  You may get some action from them, but never as much as you think seems likely. 

2) Having said that, I've noticed that there are certain things you can do to improve your odds a bit.  First of all, have good, high quality, recent pictures.  Try to have them taken by someone with a good eye for photography.  Include a good face picture.  Don't be shy about showing off.  Second, you probably don't want to mention inexperience too much.  Never mention anything that could potentially turn away guys for no reason.  You've had enough experience to know what you like, which is all that counts. 

3) You don't mention this, but if you are the shy type, waiting for others to approach you, you need to get over that.  Send messages to men you see online that you are attracted to.  Avoid "oinks" and "woofs" and the like.  They do express interest but little else.  Far better to send a message that says something like, "I love your profile, your pics are hot, I saw you're into X, that's my favorite thing, what are you doing tonight?"  Actually read their profiles, don't just look at pictures.  You may find someone with a common interest who could become either a friend or FWB (or a fuck or a relationship).

4) Become comfortable with rejection.  Hooking up is a numbers game.  There are going to be a number of "nos" before you get to a "yes".  Try not to get hung up on that really hot guy you know you'd be perfect for (I can be guilty of this).  If necessary, block his profile so you don't get all stalkery.

5) When you find a good fuck, and he's into you, keep up the relationship.  A good stable of regular fuckbuds will help keep you happy.

[shyguyuk]

Pictures will have to be webcam selfies -- I don't have any RL friends I can ask to take even non-sexual ones.

That said: I'm not just talking about online. I have zero luck in bars/saunas/etc either.

The truth is that 90% of human social interaction is completely baffling to me. So long as sex isn't involved I can fake it well enough to pass - but faking is exactly what it is. Once sex gets into the equation however - even in places like saunas or on sites like BBRT where everyone is only after one thing and everyone else knows it - there are all sorts of little cues that everyone "normal" gives off and picks up on without even realising it, that I don't recognise or know how to duplicate. I feel like the disguised camera watching the bonobos in a David Attenborough documentary. So I'm reduced to reading WikiHow articles on how to pick up guys and just getting even more confused.

TBH if I didn't live out in the sticks I'd probably just hire a pro to take care of me once a month and have done with it - but none of the escort ad sites I know of list anyone nearby.

[BBBttmPete]

12 minutes ago, shyguyuk said:

Pictures will have to be webcam selfies -- I don't have any RL friends I can ask to take even non-sexual ones.

That said: I'm not just talking about online. I have zero luck in bars/saunas/etc either.

The truth is that 90% of human social interaction is completely baffling to me. So long as sex isn't involved I can fake it well enough to pass - but faking is exactly what it is. Once sex gets into the equation however - even in places like saunas or on sites like BBRT where everyone is only after one thing and everyone else knows it - there are all sorts of little cues that everyone "normal" gives off and picks up on without even realising it, that I don't recognise or know how to duplicate. I feel like the disguised camera watching the bonobos in a David Attenborough documentary. So I'm reduced to reading WikiHow articles on how to pick up guys and just getting even more confused.

TBH if I didn't live out in the sticks I'd probably just hire a pro to take care of me once a month and have done with it - but none of the escort ad sites I know of list anyone nearby.

I have some sympathy with you. In bars and saunas I tend to wait till guys approach me, the same on grindr. But on bbrts and other sites I don't have a problem flagging my interest in someone. 

[NLbear]

Maybe someone from here on BZ is willing to be a '"mentor" and go with you to a sauna/bathhouse when you go visit a bigger city? You can always try and post something like that in the UK & Ireland section (no guarantees of course...). Maybe he can find other guys to fuck you there and show you how to cruise.

With a phone or tablet you can make some pics of your body parts even though that is not always easy, just try it. Better than nothing.

Good luck!

[bareall77]

On 22/01/2017 at 5:05 PM, PhoenixGeoff said:

1) Online hookup sites suck.  Especially if you live outside of a major city.  You may get some action from them, but never as much as you think seems likely. 

2) Having said that, I've noticed that there are certain things you can do to improve your odds a bit.  First of all, have good, high quality, recent pictures.  Try to have them taken by someone with a good eye for photography.  Include a good face picture.  Don't be shy about showing off.  Second, you probably don't want to mention inexperience too much.  Never mention anything that could potentially turn away guys for no reason.  You've had enough experience to know what you like, which is all that counts. 

3) You don't mention this, but if you are the shy type, waiting for others to approach you, you need to get over that.  Send messages to men you see online that you are attracted to.  Avoid "oinks" and "woofs" and the like.  They do express interest but little else.  Far better to send a message that says something like, "I love your profile, your pics are hot, I saw you're into X, that's my favorite thing, what are you doing tonight?"  Actually read their profiles, don't just look at pictures.  You may find someone with a common interest who could become either a friend or FWB (or a fuck or a relationship).

4) Become comfortable with rejection.  Hooking up is a numbers game.  There are going to be a number of "nos" before you get to a "yes".  Try not to get hung up on that really hot guy you know you'd be perfect for (I can be guilty of this).  If necessary, block his profile so you don't get all stalkery.

5) When you find a good fuck, and he's into you, keep up the relationship.  A good stable of regular fuckbuds will help keep you happy.

 

This is very good advice. My question is if, for the most part, "online hookup sites suck" (and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you) is there a better alternative?

I honestly wish hooking in 2017 was like I heard it was in the late 70's - early 80's...in parks, bookstores, bathhouses, theaters, etc. Then, along with the online hookup sites, it would be like going through a catalog. "Hmm, looks like tonight is college night at Stickys. But it's fucking hot out...I know Used Holes Park will be busy!" Then I could contact friends and fuck buds from the hookup sites to find out what they are doing.

[PhoenixGeoff]

11 minutes ago, bareall77 said:

 

This is very good advice. My question is if, for the most part, "online hookup sites suck" (and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you) is there a better alternative?

I honestly wish hooking in 2017 was like I heard it was in the late 70's - early 80's...in parks, bookstores, bathhouses, theaters, etc. Then, along with the online hookup sites, it would be like going through a catalog. "Hmm, looks like tonight is college night at Stickys. But it's fucking hot out...I know Used Holes Park will be busy!" Then I could contact friends and fuck buds from the hookup sites to find out what they are doing.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem.  The online sites have displaced a lot of the action that used to take place elsewhere.  I guess a lot of it really boils down to knowing where you live and what kind of action can be found where.  And, of course, if getting laid really is a priority in your life, you probably should be looking at finding somewhere to live that will support that.  Conversely, if you need to live in a smaller town with fewer guys around, understand that part of the price you will pay is less available action.  In which case, travel is probably your best bet.

You can use the online sites to help things along.  When I was a truck driver, the mobile apps were pretty much my lifeline for finding guys.  But my experience is that they'll never be as reliable a means of hooking up as a good cruisy bar used to be.

[PhoenixGeoff]

7 hours ago, shyguyuk said:

Pictures will have to be webcam selfies -- I don't have any RL friends I can ask to take even non-sexual ones.

That said: I'm not just talking about online. I have zero luck in bars/saunas/etc either.

The truth is that 90% of human social interaction is completely baffling to me. So long as sex isn't involved I can fake it well enough to pass - but faking is exactly what it is. Once sex gets into the equation however - even in places like saunas or on sites like BBRT where everyone is only after one thing and everyone else knows it - there are all sorts of little cues that everyone "normal" gives off and picks up on without even realising it, that I don't recognise or know how to duplicate. I feel like the disguised camera watching the bonobos in a David Attenborough documentary. So I'm reduced to reading WikiHow articles on how to pick up guys and just getting even more confused.

TBH if I didn't live out in the sticks I'd probably just hire a pro to take care of me once a month and have done with it - but none of the escort ad sites I know of list anyone nearby.

So the first thing to understand is that everyone experiences these feelings of difficulty handling social situations to varying degrees.  I myself am more introverted by nature and always had a very hard time making friends growing up.  So I would suggest that this is probably the first thing that you need to tackle.

You can attack this on two fronts.  The first is relatively easy:  gaining self confidence.  The way you do that is by going out and doing and accomplishing things.  Over the years, I've done this by taking on new challenges (a lot of the stuff I did in the Army was like this) or by going out and doing new things.  If you're not doing it already, I've also found that working regular exercise into your routine works wonders in this department as well.  I have a friend here in Phoenix who was kind of loose ends after he retired.  At one point he just decided to start changing things in his life.  He quit smoking, quit drinking, started walking and hiking every day, and just ran his first 10km race.  The change seems to have changed his mood and personality very much for the better.

The harder part lies in learning how to relate to people.  One clue I might have seen in your post is that you seem to be looking at people as means to an end a bit.  If you are going out to socialize just with the object of having sex, try reframing your expectations a bit and just going out to meet people.  Most people really appreciate it if you can learn to relate to them as a person:  take interest in what they are doing, find out what's happening in their lives, offer support when they're having trouble.  Once you start doing that, the opportunities for sex will start turning up.

One key to making friendships is looking for commonalities (beyond the obvious sexual ones).  If there are organizations you're interested in (like a leather group perhaps), try signing up and committing to show up to their events.  I know here where I live, there are groups that get together just to play board games.  Facebook can be an obvious place to find out what people are interested in.  Once you start meeting people on that basis, you may find that the opportunities for sex follow along.  In the meantime, by building friendships, you're also adding to your self confidence and hence your attractiveness.  It should also be pointed out that having a strong social network is also highly correlated with personal happiness.

And don't limit your socializing just to men you're attracted to.  Make it a goal to be able to meet someone new each time you go out, and learn their face and name and phone number (I find exchanging phone numbers to be an excellent way to learn names and faces...I just ask for them in the context of adding them to my phone's contact list).  Make a point of saying hello to anyone you recognize who's out again that night, whether they're your type or not.  A little kindness and concern for others goes a long ways.

None of this is easy.  But making and maintaining friendships is a skill.  Like all skills, some people have more of an affinity for it than others.  But also like all skills, everyone can benefit from practice.  So the way you do this isn't to read up on a WikiHow or anything like that.  You go out and do it.  And perhaps fall on your face once or twice, or put your foot in your mouth, but you learn from your experiences and keep at it until you're good at it.

Incidentally, just by doing all of this you'll start learning how to pick up on all those cues you're missing without even knowing that you're doing it.  The more you can learn to concentrate on other people and the more you pay attention to them in non-sexual ways, the more you will learn how to read people, quite subconsciously.  That, too, is a skill, and one that is also developed with practice, not theory.

[shyguyuk]

15 hours ago, PhoenixGeoff said:

The harder part lies in learning how to relate to people.  One clue I might have seen in your post is that you seem to be looking at people as means to an end a bit.  If you are going out to socialize just with the object of having sex, try reframing your expectations a bit and just going out to meet people.  Most people really appreciate it if you can learn to relate to them as a person:  take interest in what they are doing, find out what's happening in their lives, offer support when they're having trouble.  Once you start doing that, the opportunities for sex will start turning up.

 

Here's the thing, though... if it wasn't for the fact that I seem, for some inexplicable reason, to have developed a sex drive, I would be perfectly happy not socializing and instead just spending every evening curled up on the sofa with a negroni and a copy of I, Robot. What I said above about "Faking It" wasn't an exaggeration - when I'm talking to someone, I actually have to consciously think things like "I should probably laugh at that", and keeping it up - which I have to do pretty much constantly at work - is actually physically exhausting. I find abstract mathematics easier to understand than people.

This is why I'm thinking it would just be easier to pay for it every now and then, but like I said, there doesn't seem to be anyone working round here. At least not on the sites I know of.

(Any suggestions of where else to look would be gratefully received, btw)

18 hours ago, NLbear said:

Maybe someone from here on BZ is willing to be a '"mentor" and go with you to a sauna/bathhouse when you go visit a bigger city? You can always try and post something like that in the UK & Ireland section (no guarantees of course...). Maybe he can find other guys to fuck you there and show you how to cruise.

With a phone or tablet you can make some pics of your body parts even though that is not always easy, just try it. Better than nothing.

Good luck!

I have an offer from demonsemen on chat to do something along these lines next time I'm in London, but right now i'm busy with work and travelling from 730am to 930pm with no idea of when I'll next be able to get time off, so fuck knows when that'll be.

(Also fuck knows if the offer will still be open if he sees this)

23 hours ago, Scottop said:

I have some sympathy with you. In bars and saunas I tend to wait till guys approach me, the same on grindr. But on bbrts and other sites I don't have a problem flagging my interest in someone. 

I have no trouble sending oinks or saying hi, but people seldom seem to respond to that and I have no clue what else to say.

Sorry, I'm sounding like a downer, I know. But I genuinely feel completely stuck.

[PhoenixGeoff]

13 hours ago, shyguyuk said:

I have no trouble sending oinks or saying hi, but people seldom seem to respond to that and I have no clue what else to say.

Sorry, I'm sounding like a downer, I know. But I genuinely feel completely stuck.

Number 1:  Don't apologize (I know, I know, British habit.  It's fine, just dial it back a bit).  Remember, self confidence.  You're presenting a problem here.  That's (in part) what this place is for.  If we weren't interested in helping then we'd ignore your post.

OK, as for what to say after "Hi."  I've added a sample profile from BBRT (first one that popped up on the worldwide listings for me).  Let's say this guy is doing everything right for us.  How to proceed?

First thing I check:  does he have anything in his profile that disqualifies him right off the back?  From my perspective, he's versatile, so we'll find something fun to do.   He wants to host, and I'm fine with traveling.  He's negative, but at least open to sex with poz guys, so he may be fine with me as I'm undetectable.  My big concern is that "Ask Me" next to drug usage.  Might just mean he smokes pot now and then, but maybe he's got a serious drug problem.  Or maybe he just ignored the question when filling out his profile.  So I'll ask about that if it comes to it.

Next, how do his interests line up with mine?  He's into Daddies, Tattoos, Truckers, Bears and Leather.  I can pretty comfortably fit into most or all of those categories somehow, so it seems likely he might be into me.  Also, we like a lot of the same activities (Anonymous Sex, gang Bangs, Exhibition, Voyeurism, Kissing, Rimming, WS, Group Sex, Fucking...all good things.) 

So on the basis of what he's told the world, I think I'd likely be into him, and there's a decent chance he'll be into me.  Looks promising.

So I'll shoot him a message, and open with something complimentary.  Because BBRT is just for hookups, we can be pretty direct.  No-one is expecting Romeo and Juliet here.

Now this guy's profile is pretty generic (kind of a good example of what not to do actually), but he did mention his location and cock size.  It can be a good idea to work in some of the details he mentioned in his ad, which tells him you actually read what he wrote and that you're not just sending the same old email out to every guy on the site.  So maybe here's my first pitch:

"Hey stud, your pics and profile are fucking hot.  I'm about ten minutes away from Oak Lawn and would love to come over and get off with you." Plus unlocking the pics.

So that's me being versatile...I just want to get in his pants and don't really care who fucks who.  If I was looking specifically to top or bottom tonight, I'd probably mention that right up front.

I won't go into much more detail than that; he can look at my profile after all.  This email is pretty much just to establish that I'm interested and also that I've noticed that he prefers to host.

From here's it's pretty simple.  If he messages back expressing interest in you, then you move to asking about any potential problems or dealbreakers.  Here's where I will ask him about his "Ask Me" next to drug usage.  Because he says he's negative, I will also explicitly mention my HIV status to make sure that he's noticed it and still wants to bareback with me.  I do this because in the US, there are laws in some states about people not disclosing their status to partners.  So that covers my ass.  Also, it's just the right thing to do.

"Hey man, before I head out, I wanted to ask you about the "Ask Me" next to drug usage on your profile.  Do you party?  Also, just so you know, I'm HIV+ undetectable.  Hope that's cool."

Assuming his answers are acceptable, I'll then get his address and phone number, give him an ETA and off we go. 

Another possibility is that he responds and says he's not interested, in which case you just move on to the next guy.

But the most likely possibility is that you just hear nothing.  So this isn't necessarily a rejection.  BBRT might be in a background window on his computer and he hasn't seen your message.  Or maybe he just logged out and the system hasn't caught up yet.  Or maybe he has another prospect on the line he's trying to land but if that falls through he'll take you.  Or maybe it is a rejection and he's just too rude or lazy to respond.  Or maybe he's just trying to figure out what he's going to say.

BBRT will let you see if he's checked out your profile or read your message.  If he's done either of those and not replied in the next 15-20 minutes, then you can assume that he's not going to get with you, at least not tonight (though generally if guys are interested but just unavailable, they will tell you).  You don't want to turn into a stalker here.  I think if you like, you could try messaging him one more time on another night in case he was just busy or forgot about your message or whatever, but if, after that, he's still ignoring you then he's probably just not into you.

So because you seem to really need a clear, logical cheat sheet, here's a flow chart.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by PhoenixGeoff

[Scottyrim]

Great answers guys. 

One thing I would say Shyguyuk is that most of us would have at least some idea of what you are going through.

I have only recently started changing the way I do things in a bathhouse.

I used to be quite passive and let another person take charge and wait.

The problem I have found, especially in bathhouses is so many people are waiting for others to make the first move.

Part of this I think is knowing what you want. Do you want to meet a hot guy? Do you want to be sucked off? Do you want to suck? Do you want Group action? Once you know what you want it becomes easier. You start to put yourself in situations where things that you want can occur.

Lets say you want to be a bottom slut in a steam room? Ok I am using me as an example lol. You don't for instance sit on the top bench, furthest in the corner, with a towel tightly wrapped around you, thinking you are not good enough to be fucked by a room full of men you can't even see. Cause short of rape, you are not going to be the bottom bitch. Why? Because everything you are doing suggests that is not what you want.

In the bathhouse Looks and confidence play huge parts. Sometimes I think it is actually the most ruthless place in the Gay world. But I love them, because I have started to put myself in situations where I am likely to get what I want.

Lets say you are scared of being rejected but you love sucking cock. Gloryholes were invented for you ! Instead of looking for cues ,someone shoves a cock through a hole, you suck. 

I suppose what I am saying in a long winded way is make it work for you. You are still pretty young, so you have a long way to go. Don't be the person wrapped up in a towel in a corner on the top bench in a steam room waiting to be everyone's bottom.:)