ESCORTING Do's and Don'ts

[rawTOP]

OK. After SIX long days, I think I've done enough to avoid problems with FOSTA/SESTA. Here's a brief run-down of what was done:

• The section on female escorts was made non-viewable.
• All members who said they were female were reviewed. About half were junk accounts and were deleted.
• All gallery images were reviewed and galleries with female genitalia were removed and infractions were given.
• All uses of the word 'escort' were reviewed. Judgement calls were made. Many threads and posts were hidden, others were edited (if changing a few words could bring it inline and not change the substance of what was being said too much), and others were left alone (mostly fiction and off-hand remarks).
• All instances of 'adultwork', 'rentboy' and 'rentmen' were changed slightly to break the links.
• The calendar was reviewed since escorts were posting ads there. A few people were found to be spamming the calendar and were given infractions.

Going forward we will be giving infractions for inappropriate references to escorting.

What's Allowed:

• Clearly fictional references to escorts and escorting.
• References to you having been an escort in the past.
• References to singular times when you hired an escort in the distant past.
• References to the fact that someone was an escort in the past (with no implication that they're still an escort).
• Discussions of the problems of being an escort (e.g. STDs, drugs, etc.)
• References to escorts and escorting in the sexual health section of the site (e.g. "I just hooked up with an escort and I'm worried about…")

What's NOT Allowed:

• Mentions that you're currently an escort.
• Discussions about how you're thinking of being an escort.
• Mentions that you recently or regularly hire escorts.
• Mentioning that you want or intend to hire someone for sex.
• Requests asking where you can find the escort profile of a pornstar, or mentioning where to find escort profiles for pornstars.
• Asking if a pornstar escorts.
• Mentioning profiles on escort-only sites, or suggesting people visit escort sites.

Gray Areas:

• Encouraging others to escort.
  • OK: "You're so hot guys would totally pay to have sex with you."
  • Not OK: "You should put an ad on Rent Boy – then you won't have so many money problems."
• Mentions that certain pornstars escort.
  • OK: "Yeah, I saw that he was escorting a few years ago, not sure what he's doing now."
  • Not OK: "Yeah, I saw an escort ad saying John Doe is coming to Miami next week."

So basically if it facilitates or encourages escorting, it's not allowed. But escorts and escorting exists, so there are legitimate discussion of the topic. This is a sex forum and when money and sex mix, it's still OK to talk it over.

[mort]

The way it's heading wouldn't it be better for future to switch to a different provider/server which is not covered by US so then you don't have to mess about with changes being done.

 

This is what a lot of other places have done it's not safe anymore to be linked to US and even if you do the changes they have forced in I can see it being a continues thing until no one is allowed to post anything or this place is forced to close

 

If it is matter of cost maybe start accepting donations

[rawTOP]

16 hours ago, mort said:

The way it's heading wouldn't it be better for future to switch to a different provider/server which is not covered by US so then you don't have to mess about with changes being done.

This is what a lot of other places have done it's not safe anymore to be linked to US and even if you do the changes they have forced in I can see it being a continues thing until no one is allowed to post anything or this place is forced to close

If it is matter of cost maybe start accepting donations

Eh. Not really. My company is a US company subject to US law. I would have to reincorporate in Europe, probably move to Europe, and only host out of Europe. But there are laws in Europe that are problematic as well. (Like, do Europeans really need warnings that a site is using cookies? ALL sites use cookies.) Actually I'm subject to the laws wherever my visitors are located, which means I'm subject to all laws everywhere. So I'm going to have to comply with the UK's age verification law when they finally figure out how you actually have to do to comply with it. But more concerning are the privacy laws out of the UK and the EU. They conflict with my ability to keep my sites secure. A hacker in the EU can demand that I delete everything I know about them from my server. I'm not willing to delete data on people who may be hackers. Hell, I'm not even OK with deleting data when it's disruptive to the flow of conversations on the site (which is why I generally don't delete your accounts here). And then there are countries, like Uganda and Iran, where this site is just flat-out illegal. So there's a whole spectrum of laws that I'm subject to, but only certain ones do I take seriously. And even of those there are a few where I probably never will be 100% compliant because they just go too far.

[mort]

11 hours ago, rawTOP said:

Eh. Not really. My company is a US company subject to US law. I would have to reincorporate in Europe, probably move to Europe, and only host out of Europe. But there are laws in Europe that are problematic as well. (Like, do Europeans really need warnings that a site is using cookies? ALL sites use cookies.) Actually I'm subject to the laws wherever my visitors are located, which means I'm subject to all laws everywhere. So I'm going to have to comply with the UK's age verification law when they finally figure out how you actually have to do to comply with it. But more concerning are the privacy laws out of the UK and the EU. They conflict with my ability to keep my sites secure. A hacker in the EU can demand that I delete everything I know about them from my server. I'm not willing to delete data on people who may be hackers. Hell, I'm not even OK with deleting data when it's disruptive to the flow of conversations on the site (which is why I generally don't delete your accounts here). And then there are countries, like Uganda and Iran, where this site is just flat-out illegal. So there's a whole spectrum of laws that I'm subject to, but only certain ones do I take seriously. And even of those there are a few where I probably never will be 100% compliant because they just go too far.

 

Not sure what you are getting at.

 

You would host in a country or cloud which doesn't follow those rules/laws just like the non extradition this is how many deemed illegal sites do it. (easiest example is torrent ones)

 

This is a forum not a company so it doesn't matter if you are in US it's the location the forum is hosted in that matters.

 

Not sure why you selected EU/UK but even so those territories are not as harsh as the US especially when it comes to privacy and the cookie thing was in place there way before US (UK/EU has to be open about these things the court system isn't like US you pay them off)

 

Age verification is if you are company registered there and hosting there which you do not need to do also it's more to do if with paid content or viewing by mobile data.

 

Because some one visits from a different country doesn't mean you have to follow there laws that wouldn't work US laws are nothing like different countries over EU each conflict each other so basically it's down to the user if they are looking at something which is illegal in there country not you.

 

Hackers no matter the country can do anything so I don't really understand what you are getting at with this again this is nothing to do with hosting location or the laws a hacker demanding something from you is illegal in EU same as US.

 

If you are worried that by going to a country which may be less secure security wise fair enough but this is what cloud is for now so you dont have all eggs in one basket.

 

At the end of the day it's your forum so you do as you please

[Detchiller]

rawTOP, just wanted to say thanks for the work you’re doing on this. It’s an effort, no doubt. It’s appreciated.

[boy4you]

I have few friends who are scared to death if sites are shut down like craigslist has done. 

[Guest]

what i dont understand is even tho craiglist did away with sections and ads  they are still relaying all the old responses back and forth

[rawTOP]

On 3/29/2018 at 8:26 PM, mort said:

Not sure what you are getting at.

You would host in a country or cloud which doesn't follow those rules/laws just like the non extradition this is how many deemed illegal sites do it. (easiest example is torrent ones)

This is a forum not a company so it doesn't matter if you are in US it's the location the forum is hosted in that matters.

Not sure why you selected EU/UK but even so those territories are not as harsh as the US especially when it comes to privacy and the cookie thing was in place there way before US (UK/EU has to be open about these things the court system isn't like US you pay them off)

Age verification is if you are company registered there and hosting there which you do not need to do also it's more to do if with paid content or viewing by mobile data.

Because some one visits from a different country doesn't mean you have to follow there laws that wouldn't work US laws are nothing like different countries over EU each conflict each other so basically it's down to the user if they are looking at something which is illegal in there country not you.

Hackers no matter the country can do anything so I don't really understand what you are getting at with this again this is nothing to do with hosting location or the laws a hacker demanding something from you is illegal in EU same as US.

If you are worried that by going to a country which may be less secure security wise fair enough but this is what cloud is for now so you dont have all eggs in one basket.

At the end of the day it's your forum so you do as you please

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong.

This site is owned by Studio 3X, Inc. a New York company that I own.

Websites are subject to the local laws of the visitors to the site. Legally, the site goes to the visitor. The visitor does not go to the site. This was a gray area back in the '90s, but was pretty quickly cleared up. Given that I get traffic from pretty much everywhere, my sites are subject to the laws pretty much everywhere. I'll ignore the laws in places like Uganda and Iran, but I can't ignore the laws in the EU, Australia, etc. Many countries have reciprocal law enforcement agreements with the US.

Where you host doesn't make a difference, other than the fact that if you're servers are seized or monitored it needs to be done by an agency with jurisdiction where the server is located.

And you don't seem to understand hosting in the cloud. It means you have a physical presence in many countries (e.g. more countries that can seize/monitor your servers). All the cloud services I know host in major countries, not non-extradition countries) because big powerful countries have the best Internet connections. So additional points of legal exposure.

The EU is way harsher on privacy issues than the US (from the perspective of a webmaster). The US is far more focused on the needs of the corporations that run sites, not on the privacy of the end user.

You're also wrong on what's going on with UK age verification. All websites globally will have to comply with the UK age verification law or they will be blocked to users in the UK.

My mention of hackers are because a hacker will come on a site and pretend to be a regular user. They'll probe for "soft spots" in your code. And then hit you with a major attack on those soft spots. If they ask for their data to be deleted prior to launching the full attack and I complied, then I have no data on who they might be. Which is why I can't and won't comply with the EU law that says I must delete the data when requested. I have a responsibility to my community of users that transcends my responsibility to any one user, IMHO. (Oddly, I'd think that's a concept Europeans should understand – they're all about the community being more important than the individual.)

[rawTOP]

20 hours ago, boy4you said:

I have few friends who are scared to death if sites are shut down like craigslist has done. 

Are you talking about escorts? Yeah, they rely on just a few sites. But given that escorting is legal in some significant areas in the EU, I can't see EU-based sites being shut down. But the sites need to be hosted in the EU and owned by EU companies/citizens to be safe. And given that the US has never forced ISPs to block particular sites, and has no "national firewall", it means that if a site is up in the EU it can service the US.

Bottom line, escorts (even ones in the US) should always have at least a few sites they can use.

[boy4you]

1 hour ago, rawTOP said:

Are you talking about escorts? Yeah, they rely on just a few sites. But given that escorting is legal in some significant areas in the EU, I can't see EU-based sites being shut down. But the sites need to be hosted in the EU and owned by EU companies/citizens to be safe. And given that the US has never forced ISPs to block particular sites, and has no "national firewall", it means that if a site is up in the EU it can service the US.

Bottom line, escorts (even ones in the US) should always have at least a few sites they can use.

As of now the Craigslist personals in the USA is down but in the EU it’s still up as it is with many other sites. This law will put many on the streets looking for work. 

[Guest takingdeepanal]

16 hours ago, rawTOP said:

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong.

This site is owned by Studio 3X, Inc. a New York company that I own.

Websites are subject to the local laws of the visitors to the site. Legally, the site goes to the visitor. The visitor does not go to the site. This was a gray area back in the '90s, but was pretty quickly cleared up. Given that I get traffic from pretty much everywhere, my sites are subject to the laws pretty much everywhere. I'll ignore the laws in places like Uganda and Iran, but I can't ignore the laws in the EU, Australia, etc. Many countries have reciprocal law enforcement agreements with the US.

Where you host doesn't make a difference, other than the fact that if you're servers are seized or monitored it needs to be done by an agency with jurisdiction where the server is located.

And you don't seem to understand hosting in the cloud. It means you have a physical presence in many countries (e.g. more countries that can seize/monitor your servers). All the cloud services I know host in major countries, not non-extradition countries) because big powerful countries have the best Internet connections. So additional points of legal exposure.

The EU is way harsher on privacy issues than the US (from the perspective of a webmaster). The US is far more focused on the needs of the corporations that run sites, not on the privacy of the end user.

You're also wrong on what's going on with UK age verification. All websites globally will have to comply with the UK age verification law or they will be blocked to users in the UK.

My mention of hackers are because a hacker will come on a site and pretend to be a regular user. They'll probe for "soft spots" in your code. And then hit you with a major attack on those soft spots. If they ask for their data to be deleted prior to launching the full attack and I complied, then I have no data on who they might be. Which is why I can't and won't comply with the EU law that says I must delete the data when requested. I have a responsibility to my community of users that transcends my responsibility to any one user, IMHO. (Oddly, I'd think that's a concept Europeans should understand – they're all about the community being more important than the individual.)

EXACTLY!!!

Plus the guy who shows that he knows not a lot has his last visit displayed as being on 23 July 2017. If he wants to man up, he needs to correctly display his information.

[deanface]

I was half way through writing a post in the trans section, and was about to make mention of Amsterdam red light district. Is it ok to point out what it's like there? The point I'm making in the post is there are a decent amount of trans in the red light district. 

[rawTOP]

On 4/1/2018 at 6:28 AM, deanface said:

I was half way through writing a post in the trans section, and was about to make mention of Amsterdam red light district. Is it ok to point out what it's like there? The point I'm making in the post is there are a decent amount of trans in the red light district. 

It depends on what you're saying. Mentioning that the place exists is fine. Giving a physical description of the place is fine. Recommending that people looking for trans escorts go there, is not OK. In other words, if the NY Times wouldn't put it in their travel section, then it probably shouldn't be said.

[muscmtl]

There is a simpler solution: move all your sites out of the US. The US cannot close rentmen because it is not a US site. CL and backpage were US sites. I understand that migrating from a to a non US host is hard as shit, but it would solve all these problems. Take your pick, move  your escorts sites, maybe even breedingzone to Canada, Uk, France, Australia... the list is long. And know that money will talk. If a new UK hosted CL brings back the escort tab (remember, 2 yrs ago) and makes shits loads of money , I guarantee that some US lawyers will argue that this lost of revenues is unTrumpian. 

I have read so many comments on forums, FB and Twittter, and seems that everyone is forgetting that we live on Planet Earth, not planet US. Sesta shit is only a US issue, so just think "outside the US box."

I'd kill if breedingzone disappeared because of some fuck aftermath from sesta/CL/backpage. Do like the French Hugenots who could no longer practice in France, so they all moved to the Netherlands and becamae fitlhy disgustingly rich.

[hungry_hole]

22 hours ago, muscmtl said:

I have read so many comments on forums, FB and Twittter, and seems that everyone is forgetting that we live on Planet Earth, not planet US.

It's true that many Americans think that the World and the US are one and the same thing. It's called egocentric-ism. From the Google Dictionary, the synonyms for egocentric: self-centered, ego-maniacal, egoistic, egotistic, self-interested, selfish, self-seeking, self-absorbed, narcissistic, vain, self-important. You get the idea.

The only positive comments I hear about FOSTA/SESTA have to do with trying to prevent trafficking of little girls and women. So my question is, why then are they preventing some horny guy from making a few bucks by breeding a willing hole of some hungry bottom who used to advertise on CL? Instead of using a sledge hammer there must be another way of preventing stupid girls and women from being exploited by men who they think loves them?

Although I'm not at an age where I could offer escorting services I still believe that putting restrictions on what one can do with the body is a violation of your human rights. Why should someone who knows they can make ten times more using their bodies as escorts be forced to continue using their bodies to clean toilets at a mall?