H.I.V. Is Reported Cured in a Second Patient

[Veytoss]

Nature article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00798-3?fbclid=IwAR2XkLH-y2ux1VsLJkqTnzUO2QwWUmF8OKP5jyOjD3_hQ1psaa5KZC7irLU

[pussyboy82]

HIV is genetic, its why there's a seroconversion. This cure isn't a cure its cheating and not viable on a large scale. 

It's fake news really. 

[tallslenderguy]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:55 AM, Veytoss said:

Nature article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00798-3?fbclid=IwAR2XkLH-y2ux1VsLJkqTnzUO2QwWUmF8OKP5jyOjD3_hQ1psaa5KZC7irLU

This link is essentially the published study, the info is reliable.  A little info for those interested:

HIV is a virus and, as such, requires a host for replication.  I.e., HIV cannot reproduce on its own, it invades a cell and uses its hosts DNA to reproduce. What made it so deadly was HIV's ability to mutate rapidly. The way we finally achieved suppression was by med combinations that resist the virus at more than one point. Sort of like instead of cutting off only and arm, the combo meds cut of an arm and a couple of legs. Essentially, the anti retroviral therapy (ART), reduces the levels of HIV to "undetectable" thus removing the deadly aspect of the virus, which is the virus ability to decimate the immune system. With ART, the immune system can recover and remain intact, so people don't progress to AID's and thus stay alive and relatively healthy.  

The London Man are cool progress because it demonstrates repeatability of the Berlin Man, who has been HIV free for 10 years.  The process was even less aggressive in the London Man, yet still appears to have succeeded 18 months later. Both used bone marrow transplant which process involves wiping out the immune system then replacing it with someone else's (i.e., stem cell transplant). In each case, the donor cells were from donors who have the genetic mutation where the CCR5 receptors are missing from the their cell surface, receptors that HIV needs to gain access to a cell and its DNA so it can reproduce.  So, not unlike ART, this method employs hitting HIV from a couple of directions and it appears, so far,  to irradiate HIV from the body. 

The thing that makes scientists excited about the "London Man" is that they were able to replicate the "Berlin Man."  The London Man has been free of HIV for 18 months, the Berlin Man 10 years. This is new and rare (only two cases) results, so terms like "remission" are being used instead of "cure."  We did/do the same with cancer. Terms like "remission" are used when we do not have enough experience or replicated evidence to apply the term "cure."  

No one is considering this a viable treatment for HIV, especially with the success of ART, but it is exciting to see it's possible for the virus to be removed from the body.

[Veytoss]

3 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

This link is essentially the published study, the info is reliable.  A little info for those interested:

[CUT]

Thank You for the excellent sum

[wildbottom]

Everyone remember though, it would not be cured, it would be in remission.  The same goes for all this stuff we get (Gono, Chlam, Syph, HSV, HPV, Hep b/c, etc).  It's amazing that science can push down these infections into little pockets where they can't get out to keep multiplying, but they will always be with us.  That might scare some, but those who think of these bugs as gifts might be pleased to know this.

[wildbottom]

54 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

This link is essentially the published study, the info is reliable.  A little info for those interested:

HIV is a virus and, as such, requires a host for replication.  I.e., HIV cannot reproduce on its own, it invades a cell and uses its hosts DNA to reproduce. What made it so deadly was HIV's ability to mutate rapidly. The way we finally achieved suppression was by med combinations that resist the virus at more than one point. Sort of like instead of cutting off only and arm, the combo meds cut of an arm and a couple of legs. Essentially, the anti retroviral therapy (ART), reduces the levels of HIV to "undetectable" thus removing the deadly aspect of the virus, which is the virus ability to decimate the immune system. With ART, the immune system can recover and remain intact, so people don't progress to AID's and thus stay alive and relatively healthy.  

The London Man are cool progress because it demonstrates repeatability of the Berlin Man, who has been HIV free for 10 years.  The process was even less aggressive in the London Man, yet still appears to have succeeded 18 months later. Both used bone marrow transplant which process involves wiping out the immune system then replacing it with someone else's (i.e., stem cell transplant). In each case, the donor cells were from donors who have the genetic mutation where the CCR5 receptors are missing from the their cell surface, receptors that HIV needs to gain access to a cell and its DNA so it can reproduce.  So, not unlike ART, this method employs hitting HIV from a couple of directions and it appears, so far,  to irradiate HIV from the body. 

The thing that makes scientists excited about the "London Man" is that they were able to replicate the "Berlin Man."  The London Man has been free of HIV for 18 months, the Berlin Man 10 years. This is new and rare (only two cases) results, so terms like "remission" are being used instead of "cure."  We did/do the same with cancer. Terms like "remission" are used when we do not have enough experience or replicated evidence to apply the term "cure."  

No one is considering this a viable treatment for HIV, especially with the success of ART, but it is exciting to see it's possible for the virus to be removed from the body.

AND - both of these cases coincided with cancer - the treatments for which appear to have affected the HIV virus - and bone marrow transplants  were involved as well.  Just good to know. 

[pussyboy82]

It's fake news. They aren't researching this area at all, they know how it works and is very expensive. 

It's more than coincidence as they used a source that they knew to be immune. It's not news at all. The technique is used to cure many conditions but it isn't suitable for everyone. 

Real research is finding perhaps creating a new bug that fights the hiv mutation hidden inside your body, clearing you of it and then with its job done dying. That would be proper news to hear about treatment. 

[wood]

While this is a remarkable achievement, people are getting a bit too exciting IMO. As others have noted, the procedure to do this is EXTREME, and can be deadly. The Berlin patient for example nearly died during his treatment. It’s also very expensive, and most likely involves other long term harm to the body.  

However what it does show is that it’s possible to eliminate the viral reservoirs that make HIV currently a chronic condition not a (generally) curable one. 

IMO, what we may see if the future that could lead to a cure is new drugs that specifically target those reservoirs, this eliminating HIV from the body. 

I’m all for a cute but there is no chance in hell I’d go through the current procedure if I didn’t have cancer and was just HIV+. The current drugs are way safer than this idea of a potential cure. 

[ptyguy]

On 3/5/2019 at 6:47 AM, leatherpunk16 said:

I wish to do a bit of speculation here.

Let's say this works and becomes a viable cure. How many of us BZ guys would queue up for it? Who would go and get the cure, and try to get infected again? I imagine a weird convo to be something like this.

Guy 1: I have to go the clinic for the HIV cure again.

Guy 2: What is this, the fourth time for you now?

Guy 1: Something like that. I'm such a whore, LOL.

Guy 2: Make this the last time, okay?

 

See how weird that would be?

The supposed cure they are talking about involves a complete blood transfusion from a person that cannot become H.I.V. positive because their CD4 cells have an odd little growth on the receptor and the virus cannot enter and compromise the cell because of it. People who have that cell mutation are a very small percentage of the total world population. They can have the virus passed on to them and can be carrying the virus but it cannot harm them since it cannot compromise the CD4 cells. Much like how they cure leukemia, a complete transfusion  of the donors blood must replace the blood of the person receiving the donors blood. Also just like with leukemia, there needs to be a very good match between the donor and patient or else the patient will reject the donors blood/marrow and that could easily lead to death. If everything goes well though, the patient's body should start making new CD4 cells that have the receptor mutation anywhere from a month or two after the initial transfusion. How quickly this happens will depend on how much graft vs. host issues arise and there is always some amount of rejection no matter how good of a match. If the patient is lucky they should start generating new CD4 cells with the mutation though and that is how their body will generate new CD4 cells for the rest of their life. Since science still hasn't figured out exactly where the virus hibernates within the body of people that are undetectable, the virus will still be inside the patient but cannot affect the patient anymore. It also cannot replicate since it uses the CD4 cells to do that so eventually what few instances of the virus that were hibernating will die and the the patient will be completely free of the virus. This is not considered a cure though. It would be very hard to find good matches since the percentage of people that have this mutation is quite small and the overall risk to the patient is too great without near perfect matches. This is just a stepping stone where scientists are acquiring more knowledge about the mutation. One hope is to develop a vaccine that will alter the human genome and will make anyone who has been vaccinated to generate new CD4 cells with the mutation once vaccinated. Scientists have been somewhat successful doing this to apes but it is not to a point where they can start human trials from what I understand. Some apes still die when given the vaccine and until they perfect this to where it is not killing any ape's (no matter how small the numbers), they will not try it on humans.     

[wildbottom]

11 hours ago, ptyguy said:

The supposed cure they are talking about involves a complete blood transfusion from a person that cannot become H.I.V. positive because their CD4 cells have an odd little growth on the receptor and the virus cannot enter and compromise the cell because of it. People who have that cell mutation are a very small percentage of the total world population. They can have the virus passed on to them and can be carrying the virus but it cannot harm them since it cannot compromise the CD4 cells. Much like how they cure leukemia, a complete transfusion  of the donors blood must replace the blood of the person receiving the donors blood. Also just like with leukemia, there needs to be a very good match between the donor and patient or else the patient will reject the donors blood/marrow and that could easily lead to death. If everything goes well though, the patient's body should start making new CD4 cells that have the receptor mutation anywhere from a month or two after the initial transfusion. How quickly this happens will depend on how much graft vs. host issues arise and there is always some amount of rejection no matter how good of a match. If the patient is lucky they should start generating new CD4 cells with the mutation though and that is how their body will generate new CD4 cells for the rest of their life. Since science still hasn't figured out exactly where the virus hibernates within the body of people that are undetectable, the virus will still be inside the patient but cannot affect the patient anymore. It also cannot replicate since it uses the CD4 cells to do that so eventually what few instances of the virus that were hibernating will die and the the patient will be completely free of the virus. This is not considered a cure though. It would be very hard to find good matches since the percentage of people that have this mutation is quite small and the overall risk to the patient is too great without near perfect matches. This is just a stepping stone where scientists are acquiring more knowledge about the mutation. One hope is to develop a vaccine that will alter the human genome and will make anyone who has been vaccinated to generate new CD4 cells with the mutation once vaccinated. Scientists have been somewhat successful doing this to apes but it is not to a point where they can start human trials from what I understand. Some apes still die when given the vaccine and until they perfect this to where it is not killing any ape's (no matter how small the numbers), they will not try it on humans.     

It's the CCR5 gene deletion (called DELTA32, so you would see it as CCR5 DELTA32 meaning deletion of the sequence on BOTH #3gene strands) - it's in 10-15% of the global population whose ancestors are from Europe.  Scientists believe those descendants carry this gene deletion because their ancestors were survivors of the Black Plague, which was nature's last attempt to eradicate us.  Presence of BOTH gene sequence deletions gives you a 90-95% chance of immunity to HIV, presence of just one of the deletions gives you a 40-50% chance. You can determine your status with 23andme - I got my results last week and I am NOT one of the lucky ones.