Cigar fetish

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, TallAussieBtm said:

Dore Alley July 2023. And yes it's outdoors. But when you've got maybe 15-20 guys puffing away at the SFEagle, packed shoulder to shoulder in the heat outside, there's no escape from it. And if nearly everyone is out the back, sticking inside isn't really an option. I did put up with it. But it wasn't that pleasant. Back alley at Powerhouse a bit too, but cigars weren't quite so much of an issue there. Cheers.

So what I hear you saying is that (a) the bars themselves are smoke-free, (b) the cigar smokers are outside, in a designated area, and (c) most everyone there seemed to prefer being out with them instead of inside the bar.

What that says to me is not that cigar smoke is an issue making it difficult to breathe at the leather bars; rather, a significant number of leathermen seem to enjoy cigars (or cigar men), and there aren't enough leather men who eschew that completely to provide suitable hunting grounds (for whatever) in the nice, clean, smoke-free interior spaces.

The major factor that got indoor smoking bans approved was that lots of people who weren't smokers nonetheless had to deal with secondhand smoke; in bars, that could include the bartenders, whose work required them to face this health hazard. But in my experience, these smoking patios don't have a bar, so no employees are forced to experience the smoke, and no patrons have to either.

Of course, you may not like who's left inside, in the bar, when most of the leathermen are outside with their brethren, some of whom do like cigars or cigar men, but that's no different than not liking a bar because of its music choices, or the way they make a mojito.

And although I'm not a cigar smoker myself, I'd much rather be around a guy who's enjoying one outside than the typical drunk/tweaker people who don't smoke but who can't control their alcohol or drug intakes. But I'm not going to gripe and say bars should cut off people after two drinks, or screening for people who are on some other form of enhancement. I just don't go to places that cater to those kind of people.

[PozBearWI]

15 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

So what I hear you saying is that (a) the bars themselves are smoke-free, (b) the cigar smokers are outside, in a designated area, and (c) most everyone there seemed to prefer being out with them instead of inside the bar.

What that says to me is not that cigar smoke is an issue making it difficult to breathe at the leather bars; rather, a significant number of leathermen seem to enjoy cigars (or cigar men), and there aren't enough leather men who eschew that completely to provide suitable hunting grounds (for whatever) in the nice, clean, smoke-free interior spaces.

The major factor that got indoor smoking bans approved was that lots of people who weren't smokers nonetheless had to deal with secondhand smoke; in bars, that could include the bartenders, whose work required them to face this health hazard. But in my experience, these smoking patios don't have a bar, so no employees are forced to experience the smoke, and no patrons have to either.

Of course, you may not like who's left inside, in the bar, when most of the leathermen are outside with their brethren, some of whom do like cigars or cigar men, but that's no different than not liking a bar because of its music choices, or the way they make a mojito.

And although I'm not a cigar smoker myself, I'd much rather be around a guy who's enjoying one outside than the typical drunk/tweaker people who don't smoke but who can't control their alcohol or drug intakes. But I'm not going to gripe and say bars should cut off people after two drinks, or screening for people who are on some other form of enhancement. I just don't go to places that cater to those kind of people.

And that smoke held in by four walls and a ceiling inside evacuates rather quickly outside.  The smell thus less intense and IMO more enjoyable.   

[TallAussieBtm]

20 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

What that says to me is not that cigar smoke is an issue making it difficult to breathe at the leather bars...; rather, a significant number of leathermen seem to enjoy cigars (or cigar men), and there aren't enough leather men who eschew that completely to provide suitable hunting grounds (for whatever) in the nice, clean, smoke-free interior spaces.

You're entitled to your opinion - as am I. 😃 But I think you're missing my main point that all of this seems to have intensified in recent years. Cigar-related events and cigar smoking are now being promoted as central - indispensable even - to leather culture; when that hasn't been the case to the same extent before. At least in my experience. And I worry about the health impacts that will have on our community.

4 hours ago, JimInWisc said:

And that smoke held in by four walls and a ceiling inside evacuates rather quickly outside.  The smell thus less intense and IMO more enjoyable.   

Don't know if you've been to SF Eagle recently in summer but when the outdoor area is packed, that smoke doesn't really go anywhere. It just settles like a fog. And in places like New Action in Berlin, where there's a kind of indoor smoking stadium next to the bar, that smoke ain't going anywhere. You have to push through a wall of smoke to get to the backroom beyond. And I'm pretty sure German bars are officially supposed to be smoke free. So adherence to rules can go out the window in the name of a more assertive leather cigar culture.

Anyway all good. 

[PozBearWI]

17 hours ago, TallAussieBtm said:

You're entitled to your opinion - as am I. 😃 But I think you're missing my main point that all of this seems to have intensified in recent years. Cigar-related events and cigar smoking are now being promoted as central - indispensable even - to leather culture; when that hasn't been the case to the same extent before. At least in my experience. And I worry about the health impacts that will have on our community.

Don't know if you've been to SF Eagle recently in summer but when the outdoor area is packed, that smoke doesn't really go anywhere. It just settles like a fog. And in places like New Action in Berlin, where there's a kind of indoor smoking stadium next to the bar, that smoke ain't going anywhere. You have to push through a wall of smoke to get to the backroom beyond. And I'm pretty sure German bars are officially supposed to be smoke free. So adherence to rules can go out the window in the name of a more assertive leather cigar culture.

Anyway all good. 

I've been in "outdoor" settings; but outdoor only in that they have four walls but no roof.  Yeah that exhibits indoor attributes.  Not much of that here in open air Wisconsin.  🙂

[ktopper]

Two nights ago; slept about an hour and a half, woke up and couldn't go back asleep. A common occurrence for me. So I headed out to my shop/man cave about 0100. Turned the heat on, lit up a Romeo y Julietta, poured a glass of dark rum, fired up the 'puter (with some nice speakers plugged into it, big subwoofer and nice woofers with built in tweeters. Played some classic 60s-70s rock and roll for awhile, then pulled up a recording of a full concert by 2cellos played in the Arena Del Pula in Croatia. Pula is the hometown of one of the 2cellos guys, the other guy is Slovenian. Pula was a resort town built by the Romans during the Empire. The arena is the best preserved of the ancient Roman arenas. No doubt many gladiators shed blood or lost their lives there. The contrast between that and a 2cellos concert is mind boggling.

I could have easily had some male company with a phone call or two. But I just enjoyed the alone time. And a good cigar and a couple of drinks. I like cigars.

[BootmanLA]

On 1/25/2024 at 3:49 PM, TallAussieBtm said:

You're entitled to your opinion - as am I. 😃 But I think you're missing my main point that all of this seems to have intensified in recent years. Cigar-related events and cigar smoking are now being promoted as central - indispensable even - to leather culture; when that hasn't been the case to the same extent before. At least in my experience. And I worry about the health impacts that will have on our community.

I can't honestly say whether you're right about "the same extent". I do know that when I regularly attended leather events back around the turn of the millennium, every one had a cigar tent or something similar outside (because indoor smoking was already on the way out in most of the cities where they were held). And I know from way before then that cigars had always been a key (if not universal, even today) part of the leather culture. You can see it in Colt photo spreads from the late 60's forward, and old Tom of Finland drawings, and more. Maybe that wasn't the case in Australia or Europe (again, I can't speak to those), but it certainly was here in the U.S.

Fetishes do change in popularity, and it may well be that cigars are becoming more popular. But then so are leather pups, furries, and many other things. In fact, one constant of the leather/fetish world seems to be that something starts as an unusual and/or rare interest and over time, more and more people discover the activity and decide they approve. Fisting, for instance, used to be something whispered about, an action that everyone knew was out there, somewhere, but very few of us actually knew anyone who admitted to doing it. There's no such secrecy or mystery about it today.

And that trendline shows up outside of fetishes, too. When I came out in the late 70's, things like craft cocktails hadn't been invented. No one drank imported beer at the bars (and they seldom carried more than, say, Heineken), much less the "craft beers" that are now ubiquitous. What people enjoy, whether it's fisting, a local ale, or a good cigar, changes over time.

And look - I get that if you're sensitive to the smell, you won't want to be around it. I stopped going to bars at some point in the early 90's because we hadn't banned smoking indoors here yet (and even when we did, bars were initially exempted), and I couldn't stand being around all that cigarette smoke (which IMO is far worse than cigar smoke). And worse, you leave the bar and it's still all you could smell because your clothes were saturated with it.

But I'd further note: if you're at a leather bar during a major leather event like Dore Alley, or Folsom, or MAL or IML, and you go into the cigar area, you're going to get far, far more exposure to it than on a typical weekend night.  Maybe it's more a function of the concentration of people than of cigars becoming overwhelmingly popular?

[KindaBasic]

I just can’t get into it. Not the symbolism or vibe, since I’m a bit of a sub. It is entirely about the smell and smoke. 

[Daddyph]

A man with a cigar and I melt. I’ll do anything he wants and I suppose it’s for the reasons above. Makes me so hirny !