Poppers/Valsalva Maneuver: Short-Term & Long-Term Cardiovascular Risks?

[11bi11guy]

Apologies if this should go in another forum. It doesn’t seem like poppers discussions are limited to the Backroom, and it seems like the health section is devoted to HIV/STI discussions. Please let me know if I should post my questions elsewhere.

Long time poppers user, so I understand all the basics (generally low risk in isolation, vasodilator lowering BP and raising HR, avoid using with Viagra/Cialis, avoid isopropyl formulas, headache & fatigue are expected side effects, but watch out for methemoglobinemia). My living and relationship situations have recently changed so I find I’m using poppers more frequently. I’m also exploring with bigger anal dildos, both in terms of length and girth. These toys require poppers and frequent Valsalva maneuvers (i.e., when you bear down on the toilet or riding a roller coaster) to get past the rectosigmoid junction. The Valsalva maneuver can cause cardiovascular complications—people have gone into cardiac arrest while trying to force a bowel movement (that’s how they say Elvis died).

If I inhale too much poppers at one time, I know the danger is that I will pass out, and that I need to get more oxygen and drink water to raise my blood pressure to normal levels. I suspect the risk of using the Valsalva maneuver in conjunction with poppers is that a person could go into cardiac arrest or pass out.

Which brings me to my questions:

1. When using poppers, what are the immediate cardiovascular risks (e.g., passing out/syncope, heart attack/cardiac arrest, etc.)?
2. What, if any, are the long-term cardiovascular risks (e.g., stroke, ruptured aneurysm, spontaneous cerebrospinal fluid loss, hypo/hypertension, heart disease, arterial disease, etc.)?
3. Does using the Valsalva maneuver (or simply taking large toys/cocks anally) while using poppers affect those risks?
4. Does alternating poppers with Viagra/Cialis on different days affect the long-term cardiovascular risks, if any?
5. Does taking any stimulant or depressant medications affect the long-term cardiovascular risks, if any?

Ideally someone here is a cardiologist or vascular neurosurgeon, but I’d greatly appreciate anyone sharing any insight or experiences related to these questions.

[ErosWired]

Below is a link to a study conducted in 2014 on the question of long-term cardiovascular and renal effects of alkyl nitrite inhalants.

[think before following links] http://www.croiconference.org/sessions/long-term-effects-nitrite-inhalants-cardiovascular-and-renal-outcomes-macs-cohort

(If you can’t find a neurosurgeon, find someone with a degree in library science 😉)

Edited February 1, 2020 by ErosWired

[ErosWired]

2 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

Edited February 1, 2020 by ErosWired

[Leather69]

Poppers and someone on blood pressure tablets is a BIG NO NO

[11bi11guy]

That’s awesome, thanks Eros!

[tallslenderguy]

I've posted some studies and commented on this topic in other threads, you could prolly find them doing a search function?

 i'm not a doctor, i'm a critical care nurse and care for patients with heart and vascular issues all the time.  Doctors see their patients for about 15 minutes, nurses are with them (well, this nurse) for 12 hours a day, so we get to see and deal with the effects of medical intervention, moment by moment over long periods. Clinically put, we're the scientists performing the actual 'experiments' (so to speak).  Nurses perform many interventions prescribed by doctors, and are also licensed to do many on our own. For instance, we use the valsalva maneuver for sevreral interventions like people who have gone into atrial fibrillation or supraventricular tachycardia. It doesn't work to 'fix'  most of our patients because they usually have complex issues and multiple co-morbidities contributing to their heart response. The body isn't so much isolated systems as it is separate, but interdependent systems that work in concert to play a symphony. 

The valsalva maneuver, when done properly, exerts strain of  ~40 mm Hg.  We use something like a 10ml syringe and have the patient blow into it and try to move the plunger that way... that's a lot of 'strain' btw lol.   The idea is to kick in a vagal response, which is the parasympathetic response. That has the effect (among other things) of releasing acetylcholine in the heart, particularly at the SA node, which is responsible (in well people) for regulating heart rhythm.  Aka the hearts "pace maker."  The parasympathetic effect (among other things) slows the heart rate and dilates the blood vessels (lowering blood pressure).   

Poppers are nitrites. Our bodies make their own nitrites (nitric oxide, NO) and NO is secreted by the endothelium.  Among other things, NO dilates blood vessels and lowers blood pressure.  When you see people on TV being giving nitroglycerin because they are having a heart attack, that's similar stuff. 

What you are doing with combining valsalva and poppers is stimulating a natural physiological response and chemically inducing another.  Parasympathetic (valsalva) response lowers the heart rate and blood pressure (BP), while nitrates (poppers) increase heart rate and lower BP.  The body always works to reestablish homeostasis (balance), so it depends on which stimulating factor is greater at the time, the natural or chemical, as to which way the body goes.  Additionally, you're not just performing the valsalva maneuver, you're doing the valsalva maneuver in conjunction with anal stimulation/insertion.  That is an additional stimulation of the parasympathetic response. Bradycardic (below normal heart rate) stimulation  from rectal manipulation causes an increase in parasympathetic activity as mediated by the vagus nerve. Any stimulation of the vagus  nerve along its pathway leads to a release of acetylcholine from the nerve endings in the heart causing a parasympathetic response.  What's happening with the vagal maneuver is putting internal pressure on the anal sphincter to effect a vagal response, you are combining that with an external stimulus (i.e., dildo). Too much physiology?  

You can do a google search on studies re your questions. As i recall, there are not many, but i was surprised that there were some.  You'll likely not find studies on the trifecta that you are performing though (i.e., combining valsalva with nitrates with  external anal stimulation of the vagal nerve).

Part of that relaxed, spent, floaty feeling that bottoms get after being fucked is parasympathetic stimulation.  That's pretty safe i'd guess, millions of cum dump examples can't be wrong. Also, getting fucked is physiologically similar to defecating, which is not typically harmful. 

All medications (poppers is a 'medication' of sorts) have side effects. The biggest side effect i know of with medical nitrates is tolerance.  It's short acting and the body builds up tolerance fast. E.g., if we give a chest pain patient a nitro patch (worn topically), we alternate 6 hours on, 6 off.  There are diminishing returns short term. Not sure about poppers.  Here is some good info on poppers in general: [think before following links] https://sdtreatmentcenter.com/drug-treatment/poppers-neurotoxic/

 

[11bi11guy]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:52 AM, tallslenderguy said:

I've posted some studies and commented on this topic in other threads, you could prolly find them doing a search function?

 i'm not a doctor, i'm a critical care nurse and care for patients with heart and vascular issues all the time.  Doctors see their patients for about 15 minutes, nurses are with them (well, this nurse) for 12 hours a day, so we get to see and deal with the effects of medical intervention, moment by moment over long periods. Clinically put, we're the scientists performing the actual 'experiments' (so to speak).  Nurses perform many interventions prescribed by doctors, and are also licensed to do many on our own. For instance, we use the valsalva maneuver for sevreral interventions like people who have gone into atrial fibrillation or supraventricular tachycardia. It doesn't work to 'fix'  most of our patients because they usually have complex issues and multiple co-morbidities contributing to their heart response. The body isn't so much isolated systems as it is separate, but interdependent systems that work in concert to play a symphony. 

The valsalva maneuver, when done properly, exerts strain of  ~40 mm Hg.  We use something like a 10ml syringe and have the patient blow into it and try to move the plunger that way... that's a lot of 'strain' btw lol.   The idea is to kick in a vagal response, which is the parasympathetic response. That has the effect (among other things) of releasing acetylcholine in the heart, particularly at the SA node, which is responsible (in well people) for regulating heart rhythm.  Aka the hearts "pace maker."  The parasympathetic effect (among other things) slows the heart rate and dilates the blood vessels (lowering blood pressure).   

Poppers are nitrites. Our bodies make their own nitrites (nitric oxide, NO) and NO is secreted by the endothelium.  Among other things, NO dilates blood vessels and lowers blood pressure.  When you see people on TV being giving nitroglycerin because they are having a heart attack, that's similar stuff. 

What you are doing with combining valsalva and poppers is stimulating a natural physiological response and chemically inducing another.  Parasympathetic (valsalva) response lowers the heart rate and blood pressure (BP), while nitrates (poppers) increase heart rate and lower BP.  The body always works to reestablish homeostasis (balance), so it depends on which stimulating factor is greater at the time, the natural or chemical, as to which way the body goes.  Additionally, you're not just performing the valsalva maneuver, you're doing the valsalva maneuver in conjunction with anal stimulation/insertion.  That is an additional stimulation of the parasympathetic response. Bradycardic (below normal heart rate) stimulation  from rectal manipulation causes an increase in parasympathetic activity as mediated by the vagus nerve. Any stimulation of the vagus  nerve along its pathway leads to a release of acetylcholine from the nerve endings in the heart causing a parasympathetic response.  What's happening with the vagal maneuver is putting internal pressure on the anal sphincter to effect a vagal response, you are combining that with an external stimulus (i.e., dildo). Too much physiology?  

You can do a google search on studies re your questions. As i recall, there are not many, but i was surprised that there were some.  You'll likely not find studies on the trifecta that you are performing though (i.e., combining valsalva with nitrates with  external anal stimulation of the vagal nerve).

Part of that relaxed, spent, floaty feeling that bottoms get after being fucked is parasympathetic stimulation.  That's pretty safe i'd guess, millions of cum dump examples can't be wrong. Also, getting fucked is physiologically similar to defecating, which is not typically harmful. 

All medications (poppers is a 'medication' of sorts) have side effects. The biggest side effect i know of with medical nitrates is tolerance.  It's short acting and the body builds up tolerance fast. E.g., if we give a chest pain patient a nitro patch (worn topically), we alternate 6 hours on, 6 off.  There are diminishing returns short term. Not sure about poppers.  Here is some good info on poppers in general: [think before following links] [think before following links] https://sdtreatmentcenter.com/drug-treatment/poppers-neurotoxic/

 

Thank you tallslenderguy! I figured there wouldn’t be any studies on the trifecta I’m performing, but your response is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn’t aware of the acetylcholine/parasympathetic responses to the Valsalva maneuver and to anal/vagus nerve stimulation. I believe my limited knowledge of physiology and pharmacology is adequate to understand what some of the risks might be from the combination. At the very least, making artificial (nitrites) and natural (acetylcholine) chemicals fight over your heart rate too often probably isn’t the greatest for long term cardiovascular health.