cheating for the first time

[BannedWord]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:27 AM, hntnhole said:

In my experience, "cheating", i.e. having indiscriminate sex with men other than your partner, is best accomplished with one's life-partner/lover/husband.  When two men who love each other first and foremost, go cruising for fresh sex partners together, it follows that each guy loves having sex with many men, knows and take pleasure, even pride in watching or participating in his loved-one exercising his Lusts.  When that depth of trust is developed, it can easily extend to each lover knowing and endorsing the other half going out on his own for sex.  Or, each partner going out to different fuckjoints for a night of whoring.  And the next morning, each one sharing the details, and wind up with the lovers making some really hotttt Breeding.

I can empathize with a bit of both sides in all of this. But foremost, what I quoted in your description -- the partner knows about everything and joins in -- doesn't really meet the connotation of 'cheating'. We all come at things from a different life experience and while it's regrettable to you if you and your partner were sexual with others, his relationship isn't yours and it seems like the OP's partner started this off by not being considerate of the OP's needs as well. I've lost count of the number of guys in sexless relationships who have stepped out on their partner.

I view that as on them entirely. It's their wish to stay or leave. But like you, it sounds like their relationship is like the gay equivalent of a Green Card marriage: Looks convincing in public but in private it's devoid of most anything normal including sex. And the cheating is just a symptom of the real dysfunction. If one party has no interest in sex and the other is totally horned...what else will go wrong?

I admit I've cheated. Wasn't married but was dating and she became a boner-killer after a certain period because she demanded that we jump into marriage. Dating her felt more like an obligation, so I ended up hooking up with someone else, had a much better time (she was flighty, but the sex was good), but I also knew things weren't working and I quickly broke things off with the person I was dating. Still friends with both of them. But when you know it's going that way and you aren't fulfilled, it's probably time to rethink it. Unless the idea of you or your partner fucking around provides an erotic edge to your situation.

[hntnhole]

2 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

I can empathize with a bit of both sides in all of this. But foremost, what I quoted in your description -- the partner knows about everything and joins in -- doesn't really meet the connotation of 'cheating'

Of course.

Removing the necessary dishonesty inherent in the word "cheat" and retaining all the thrill of fucking a lot of Holes or getting fucked by a lot of Holes by feeding each partner's Lust together (or, separately, as noted - each guy going to some different fleshpot than the other partner, and with the full knowledge, support and approval of each other's actions), removes the entire necessity of "cheating".  

2 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

while it's regrettable to you if you and your partner were sexual with others,

Au contraire.

It was entirely endorsed, supported and encouraged, and one of the cornerstones of our 30+ years together.  

To the poster's viewpoint, of course his current relationship is not what mine was.  Describing mine may assist him in building a successful, cheat-free relationship next time around.  He can consider my thoughts or discard them. He cannot, however, consider other guys input without the input being in a reply.  

2 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

Green Card marriage: Looks convincing in public but in private it's devoid of most anything normal including sex

I am not familiar with what a "Green Card" marriage is, but I surmise that it's some sort of 'fuck free' contivance. However, what I can say is, the only thing I cared - then or now - is/was about him, us, our relationship, and not a whit about what anyone else thought.  Fyi, those 30 years were filled to overflowing with every good thing; a few arguments, of course, but we also had a rule we both followed carefully: never go to bed angry.  Any disagreements, arguments were cleared up before we hit the hay.  When I was at fault for whatever, I owned up to it and said so.  When he was, it took a while, and he really tried so hard to say those two little words - occasionally I almost laughed at how hard it was for him to let "I'm sorry" out of his mouth, but we both put our love for each other far, far above some petty disputes.  Always.

 

2 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

cheating is just a symptom of the real dysfunction

I can partially agree with that, assuming that each partner desires honesty in the relationship, works to establish and maintain it.  Some men are most comfortable living their lives without a relationship, and that's 100% ok.  Some men want to be one half of a whole, and that's 100% ok too., and for those guys, so is establishing a firm foundation of equality, respect, and honesty.  

 

2 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

Unless the idea of you or your partner fucking around provides an erotic edge to your situation.

Facts are facts; there's no point in pretending they don't exist.  Gay guys who try to emulate "normal" (i.e. hetero) relationships are setting themselves up for failure.  Depending on cultural norms that simply don't apply to us as suitable building blocks for a successful relationship is a shaky endeavor at best.  Be honest with each other.  Be trustworthy from the beginning.  We are not straight, we don't fit into the Ozzie & Harriet cultural mold, so we must create our own.  If one guy in a budding relationship likes the idea of sneaking in extra sex, he should at least mention that fact before making commitments he knows he won't live up to.  In other words, again, be honest.  When we are dishonest, we diminish ourselves, our humanity, and there's no reason to do that. 

That was my point to the poster of this thread.  

[Versholefun]

I’ve never had a boyfriend, don’t really believe love exists. However I’m a big believer in fucking anyone, anytime, anywhere I feel like using some fine ass for my pleasure. Living in a southern college town with around 40,000 enrollment there is always a fresh supply of little fags in training wanting their horizons, as well as their holes expanded. 
 

Art, dance, education and theater majors always seem to be the most willing to do whatever it takes to please me. Little closeted frat boys pretending to be straight or bi  always and I mean always turn out to be bottoms.  They’re on Grindr and A4A looking for discreet dick stating “just between us dude.”  These types can be pretty fun and definitely readily available.

But my favorites are boys cheating on their girlfriends or boyfriends and even guys cheating on their wives. I have several tricks that fit into this category, one comes over twice a month when the boring, prudish, sexless bf is at work. I work my little sub over with fucking, spanking, pissing on/in him, CBT and build up to fisting him for hours. He can’t leave here till he’s pleading and crying with his asshole extended and swollen shut, but he always comes back for morel 

On several occasions after fucking some new cunt we start talking and I discover that I have also been fucking his boyfriend for some time. They both asked me to keep our littler secret and I’m not one to break up a happy home. 

[fskn]

I respect your posts and opinions, too, @BBArchangel. We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I never challenge the lived experiences and emotions of people who feel hurt when a partner wants to, or does, have sex outside the relationship.

I do, however, object to the idea that the partner who wants sex outside the relationship is defective. One can use "cheater" to describe a person who has sex outside a relationship, but epithets like "liars or whatever you are calling yourselves" presume that one person's wishes are completely invalid and that the other person's wishes are valid — in other words, that one partner is all wrong and the other, all right.

Every partner who can be called a "liar" has a counterpart who could be called a "prude", "frigid", a "control freak", or "boring in bed". Name-calling of course doesn't help. The problem is that two people (not just one) are finding out that their relationship isn't perfect. It's a hard problem, and in most cases, it can't be solved by digging in deeper on monogamy.

The partner who asks for an open relationship is being honest, and is taking a huge emotional risk. The partner who refuses is taking no emotional risk, and is dismissing the other person's desires.

Do we really expect one partner, who wore the "bad boyfriend" target on his back when he asked for an open relationship, to then put on the "lying, cheating boyfriend" target (with an even bigger red circle in the middle), disclosing that he has given in and fucked another guy? Meanwhile, the other partner, who refuses sex and refuses to allow sex with others, gets to keep wearing the "perfect boyfriend" wings, and to add the "innocent victim" halo when the sex-starved partner cracks?

Trust is definitely important, but each individual still has to be realistic and be responsible for his own safety.

Research on straight married people inevitably uncovers high rates of infidelity. Even though participants can easily lie in this kind of survey research, they admit infidelity. These are straight people, who have longer experience with formal, legal marital relationships than do gay people, who have fewer total partners, and who have less access to casual sex (due to social mores and pregnancy risk). It's even less realistic to assume fidelity in a gay relationship.

As for safety, it makes sense to trust that a positive boyfriend won't transmit HIV if he's virally suppressed and you watch him take his medication every morning. If the man of your dreams is negative, stay on PrEP yourself! Whether he's neg or Poz, it makes no sense to trust that he won't transmit other STIs, because you cannot watch him all day long. Get your STI vaccinations and keep up with your own STI testing routine!

The other thing that gets me — and I'm not saying this of you, or even of this thread, but in general — is that we leave space for people to discuss all kinds of fetishes here, but always drown out discussion of cheating as an erotic fetish (even though it isn't illegal, unless you're in the US military or in a religious fundamentalist country, and even though the forum rules don't seem to forbid discussing it).

It's possible, just possible, that some of us find cheating erotic. I can never be cheated on because I don't believe I'm important enough to regulate anyone else's sexual behavior. I can never cheat again because I now refuse to enter into monogamous relationships. Though I have no stake in this game, reading about cheating makes my dick hard.

I always politely suggest that people separate erotic discourse about cheating from emotional discourse. It's easy to create a new thread, and even to cross-link two threads. In other online communities, shaming has become such a problem that moderators have had to step in. On Reddit, for example, members of the r/adultery subreddit regularly receive hate-filled private messages from members of r/survivinginfidelity . The rules for the two communities have been updated to say not to quote, cross-reference, etc., and to report hate mail. We don't have that kind of problem on BZ, but instead, the anti-cheaters succeed in drowning out erotic discussion of cheating.

I am puzzled that fifty-year-old celibate straight women have a voracious appetite for romance novels about infidelity (the typical cover shows an olive-skinned, muscular, shirtless, long-haired man riding a white horse, come to rescue an innocent, homely, lovelorn housewife) but some gay men don't tolerate any discussion of infidelity.

There's room for all perspectives. Is there any reason not to create separate spaces to discuss the erotic and the emotional dimensions of cheating?

Edited March 19, 2022 by fskn
Verbatim quote

[ejaculaTe]

6 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I am not familiar with what a "Green Card" marriage is, but I surmise that it's some sort of 'fuck free' contivance

Wikipedia has a description of a "green card marriage" under the topic "Sham Marriage." The general idea is that a US citizen marries a non-resident alien who is typically ineligible for residency but for being the spouse of a US citizen. On the basis of the marriage, the non-resident alien obtains permanent residency status, evidenced by an immigration document that used to be a card, about the size of one's driver's license, that was green in color, hence "green card." 

[BannedWord]

21 hours ago, ejaculaTe said:

Wikipedia has a description of a "green card marriage" under the topic "Sham Marriage." The general idea is that a US citizen marries a non-resident alien who is typically ineligible for residency but for being the spouse of a US citizen. On the basis of the marriage, the non-resident alien obtains permanent residency status, evidenced by an immigration document that used to be a card, about the size of one's driver's license, that was green in color, hence "green card." 

Perfectly put. The TLC Series "90-day Fiancé" shows more about the process of obtaining the spousal visa for marriage, after which the Permanent Residency status (Green Card) can be issued. Immigration can often tell if a marriage is truly a sham and many times will probe further in order to deny status.

My point was that OP's situation didn't appear to be an enduring foundation, and his partner is simply burying his head and convincing himself that things are fine despite no sex at home. I'm wondering what the over/under is for that situation inside pf say two years. 😃

[Searchingforit]

Let me pit a different slant on this topic. I am bisexual and my partner is a woman.

I cheated on her a couple of times and yes the rush of adrenaline was unreal and it filled a need in me for m2m sex. Exploring and experiencing with another man is sooo good. It also helped me fulfill a need to be fucked that i had harboured for many years. The first expisode was with condoms but i found the lack of skin on skin made it very disappointing and i wanted it raw. So the second time i did get fucked bareback and it was just completely different and so much more fulfilling.

My partner found out. Oh dear you might think, but what actually transpired was that she believes my need for sexual experiences with men is important and that if i don't do it i am not being true to myself.

Soooo i have a licence to play the only rule being that i have to keep her updated on what I am doing.  The truth is that it has added to our sex lives as she gets very turned on when i describe my encounters and especially so when i describe the feeling of a cock entering my arse, pounding into me and breeding me.