Feelings between siblings

[DoubleS]

I am a gay closeted guy in my late 20s. I live with my brother. We have a very good relationship, he knows I'm gay. I have a bf we're together 4 years. I thought this would help me forget about my brother. But I don't think it worked. It's painful and I have no one to discuss about it.

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, DoubleS said:

I am a gay closeted guy in my late 20s. I live with my brother. We have a very good relationship, he knows I'm gay. I have a bf we're together 4 years. I thought this would help me forget about my brother. But I don't think it worked. It's painful and I have no one to discuss about it.

A therapist is the person you should discuss this with.

Here on BZ, you are going to get a lot of "oh man that's hot, you should totally put the moves on him" crappy advice. Others will tell you that you need to get over that. Some will be quietly disgusted but won't say anything because they don't want to appear negative. The reality is, you need to figure out what it is that's driving this, and that's something you're unlikely to figure out without a trained therapist who can work this out with you.

Sorry to be blunt, but this is the sort of thing for which there are no shortcuts, as you've already discovered. 

[DoubleS]

5 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

A therapist is the person you should discuss this with.

Here on BZ, you are going to get a lot of "oh man that's hot, you should totally put the moves on him" crappy advice. Others will tell you that you need to get over that. Some will be quietly disgusted but won't say anything because they don't want to appear negative. The reality is, you need to figure out what it is that's driving this, and that's something you're unlikely to figure out without a trained therapist who can work this out with you.

Sorry to be blunt, but this is the sort of thing for which there are no shortcuts, as you've already discovered. 

Well on the outside world it would be "oh man that's [banned word] burn in hell eternae". Actually I was seeing a psychologist and he was a very good professional (he was my fourth shot). He didn't imply that I'm [banned word] (like the others) and he made me trust him. But beyond that.. he told me to step away from him and so I did, I changed town for a year. Then my bro thought I was angry wtih him and he was sad. I was sad. Then I had sex, I had boyfriends. But..

About what's driving me to thiis.. That was a year's sessions. We concluded that its basis is that we're twins, more close than we should be. He said it's not a sexual thing, but it's a desperate love that is so intense that it's looking for a way to release that's pressure and that could turn sexually or in any other way.  So I'm really not looking for an advice "suck him and watch if he cums". But I just dont know.

[BootmanLA]

4 minutes ago, DoubleS said:

Well on the outside world it would be "oh man that's [banned word] burn in hell eternae". Actually I was seeing a psychologist and he was a very good professional (he was my fourth shot). He didn't imply that I'm [banned word] (like the others) and he made me trust him. But beyond that.. he told me to step away from him and so I did, I changed town for a year. Then my bro thought I was angry wtih him and he was sad. I was sad. Then I had sex, I had boyfriends. But..

About what's driving me to thiis.. That was a year's sessions. We concluded that its basis is that we're twins, more close than we should be. He said it's not a sexual thing, but it's a desperate love that is so intense that it's looking for a way to release that's pressure and that could turn sexually or in any other way.  So I'm really not looking for an advice "suck him and watch if he cums". But I just dont know.

So, you've already gotten therapy (Good!) and you have information that, at least to me, sounds valid: the therapist thinks it's not sexual at its root, but proximity makes you think of it in those terms. Your emotional closeness, I'm hearing, is keeping you from finding a more appropriate outlet for your desires. But you're choosing to sabotage the work you did, for a year, by moving back in with him. Result: you can't live with a partner at the same time (presumably), so you can't establish a deeper relationship with that guy.

I don't know anything about the dynamic between the two of you; but I do know that frequently, family bonds between twins are much deeper than any other family bond. But still: you are an individual, and if you don't put your own needs first, nobody will. It sounds to me (based on this limited info, granted) that what you need is to be away from him for day-to-day living, so you can live your own life and establish your own relationship with someone, but you're putting his emotional demands (he's "sad" that you aren't there) ahead of your own needs. 

You have the power to tell him "No, I'm not mad at you. You're my brother, I love you, and I'll always be in your corner. But I need to build my own life, too, and I can't do that when I'm living with you, and you can't build your own either, because we end up relying on each other for all the things we should be getting from a husband or wife." And then do it.

Because otherwise you'll be feeling this way for the rest of your life.

[DoubleS]

2 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

So, you've already gotten therapy (Good!) and you have information that, at least to me, sounds valid: the therapist thinks it's not sexual at its root, but proximity makes you think of it in those terms. Your emotional closeness, I'm hearing, is keeping you from finding a more appropriate outlet for your desires. But you're choosing to sabotage the work you did, for a year, by moving back in with him. Result: you can't live with a partner at the same time (presumably), so you can't establish a deeper relationship with that guy.

I don't know anything about the dynamic between the two of you; but I do know that frequently, family bonds between twins are much deeper than any other family bond. But still: you are an individual, and if you don't put your own needs first, nobody will. It sounds to me (based on this limited info, granted) that what you need is to be away from him for day-to-day living, so you can live your own life and establish your own relationship with someone, but you're putting his emotional demands (he's "sad" that you aren't there) ahead of your own needs. 

You have the power to tell him "No, I'm not mad at you. You're my brother, I love you, and I'll always be in your corner. But I need to build my own life, too, and I can't do that when I'm living with you, and you can't build your own either, because we end up relying on each other for all the things we should be getting from a husband or wife." And then do it.

Because otherwise you'll be feeling this way for the rest of your life.

I am a doctor so I was very positive about seeking professional help. That happened when I was 24. The following year I move to  a distant area (which is something that doctors must do in my country, but I chose a far off place so I couldn't see him at all). And after that year we live together but it's a big house we have our own space. My bf sleeps with me several times and so far this works for me.

About twins, I only know our case. But we are really are connected. Most people tend to think twins as parts of a whole. Like a pair of shoes let's say. You consider them equal and you need both. Even if we have friends that are not common, they regard me  as a friend and vice versa. From an embryological perspective, twins are a mistake, but a nice one. A confused cell duplicated itself and created two persons instead of one.

I never told him about the psychologist. So he kinda thought that me leaving was somewhat out of the blue. My fear is that he could feel the same for me, but I really dont know. Us being seperate was always a things. Parents, teachers.. everyone tried to do us part. We even went to diifferent school. I believe that made our bond stronger.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DoubleS said:

I am a gay closeted guy in my late 20s. I live with my brother. We have a very good relationship, he knows I'm gay. I have a bf we're together 4 years. I thought this would help me forget about my brother. But I don't think it worked. It's painful and I have no one to discuss about it.

Is your brother gay or closeted too? Maybe you can talk to him. My sister has been my sole supporter during my transition. And she knows everything.

- Di ❤️

[ErosWired]

The information you provide us is a bit limited for us to attempt more that broad, generalized suggestions, based on assumptions we would have to make as we fill in the blanks of what we don’t know about you, your brother, and how you both actually think and feel in this situation and context. Granted, much of that you don’t know yourself, which is why you’re facing the conundrum - your obstacle to making a decision about what to do seems at least in part rooted in a lack of information.

You tell us that you can’t stop “thinking about” your twin brother, but you’re never explicitly clear about what the nature of that thinking is. Later posts hint that there is a sexual attraction component, but you never say outright that you find yourself wanting to be sexual with him. Is this the case? You say you have a boyfriend with whom you have sex but you “don’t think it worked” - this suggests that you entered into a relationship with your boyfriend only for the purpose of making him a surrogate for your brother (this does not bode well for the relationship, but that’s a separate problem).

You are unclear whether your distress about your unresolved feelings toward your brother is the result of feeling that they’re wrong and you don’t want to feel them, or they’re not wrong and you’re frustrated that you can’t fulfill them. Without clarity on which destination you want to reach, we cannot point to a path.

Your therapist, by your account, believes that fulfilling those feelings of attraction is not in your interest, whatever the case. Given that result from a professional observer of your case, we must consider that the best information on which to consider any reply we might offer.

A diabetic with a craving for chocolate cake knows he should not eat the cake - his doctor has told him so. His doctor tells him to keep his kitchen clear of any sugary desserts that might tempt him. Yet on the man’s kitchen counter is a covered glass cake plate containing a large 20-layer Death By Chocolate ganache torte that his brother brought back from the bakery. It’s killing him slowly ever time he walks through the kitchen and looks at the thing, untouchable underneath the glass. All he would have to do would be lift the cover and dig in for what he imagines is a slice of heaven itself - on the other hand, his sugar would spike, and his brother might get mad at him. What to do?

The first, and most obvious, thing to do is put the damn cake somewhere that you’re not forced to think about it every time you pass through the kitchen. The second thing to do would be for the man to have a frank conversation with his brother to explain that because of his diabetes, having sweets lying around is a hardship, and would he consider limiting the food that comes into the house, or at least storing the sweets in a locked cupboard. If the brother then protests that such accommodations are too much to ask, the man should then explain that, for his own well-being and not for any ill feeling toward his brother, he must consider living elsewhere.

This is, of course, a slight silly metaphor for the problem - although personally I would fucking make love to a 20-layer chocolate ganache torte if I found one in my kitchen - but the point is that you’re not making this any easier by keeping the object of your obsession within reach. You already know what the difference feels like - you lived apart in a different town for a year before coming back. You felt sad, you say, but you don’t say whether being apart relieved any of the day-to-day pressure of thinking about him.

You also give no context for your return to living with him other than that you were both sad. If, as you say, he was sad because he thought you were angry with him, then he was sad for no good reason, and you could have changed that over time. He wouldn’t have been sad indefinitely. That wouldn’t have been sufficient reason to return. It seems more likely that your own sadness at not being near the object of your obsession is what caused you to abandon your therapist’s advice and return to your original unworkable situation.

Indeed, it is difficult to see a way to make this situation workable in conventional relationship terms due to the complicating factors that you’re dealing not only with family, and not only with a close sibling, but with an actual twin of yourself.

 I have known a set of twins all my life, who are such close friends of the family that we consider them family. They have always been so very alike that their dissimilarities seemed magnified. This always emphasized to me twins aren’t copies, they’re distinct individuals. You know your brother likely better than anyone else on Earth. Because of your many similarities, you have a unique insight into the things that shape his thoughts and actions.

Think hard. As much as is possible, pull yourself out of your own mind and step into your brother’s, taking in everything that you know about him. Forget about how you feel - how does he probably feel? How is he likely to react if you were to bare your heart to him and tell him everything you’re keeping bottled? You, more than anyone else, more than any psychologist, hold that answer.

The way I see it, there is only one way you can reveal your heart and mind to your brother, and that is this: You tell him all of it as an explanation of why you cannot live with him. And plan to leave. This will result in one of two outcomes - either he will not reciprocate your feelings, in which case you will be able to leave without any misunderstanding this time; or he will reciprocate them and you attempt to seek some sort of mutual resolution to those feelings. (This outcome will almost certainly sabotage your relationship with your current boyfriend - indeed, both may, but unless you are able to exercise the mental discipline to divorce yourself from your obsession once and for all, that relationship will always be at risk, and its value dubious.)

I wish you grace.

 

[backdoorjimmy]

Just out of curiosity, have you talked to your brother about what you're going through? If you're twins and you're close enough that you both felt sad about you moving away, there's a chance he knows and that it's just an unspoken truth that he sees. Do you think your relationship as brothers can survive a discussion about this issue?

Your attraction's not going to disappear until you address it, and the best thing to do might be to acknowledge it with him. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't act on your feelings, but it sounds like he's the person you're closest to in life. If that's the case, he might be aware and also worried about you and unsure how to approach the topic. I would be sad if the person I cared about the most couldn't approach me with anything they needed me for, regardless of how uncomfortable it was.

Also, you say you have a bf of 4 years and you thought it would help with this issue. I'm not attacking you, but it feels really unfair for your bf if one of the reasons you're with him was to help ease your romantic feelings for your brother. Again, if I'm mistaken I apologize. But it seems like your bf might end up hurting when this is all said and done.

[hntnhole]

21 hours ago, DoubleS said:

He said it's not a sexual thing, but it's a desperate love that is so intense that it's looking for a way to release that's pressure

I surely don't understand the closeness twins feel, but I did witness it as a kid.  There was a large family across the alley, and two of them were identical twin boys.  Occasionally one or the other would come over with other kids to play in the yard (I was maybe 10 at the time?).  I never knew which one it was by name, unless they both happened to be over and I heard them talking to each other.  Usually though, as I recall, it was only one at a time.

So I clearly remember that once a number of us we playing "you're it" or whatever - and the twin that was there suddenly stopped dead-still, kind of a distant look about him - and he just said "I gotta go", and ran off.  I later found out that his twin brother had fallen down and hurt himself (not seriously) somewhere else, and the twin playing in my back yard sensed it somehow.  I don't remember much more, but when I found out the brother had hurt himself, and his twin "knew", "sensed" something was wrong and went to find his brother to help, it was startling.  I know it sounds crazy, but this actually happened.  That family moved away at some point (the only other thing I remember about them was their old Willys) but that event is crystal clear in my memory.  What a treasure to be so connected with a loved one.  

[DoubleS]

I will tag you all for my responses since it seems that there is a limit of posts that I can make per day

@ErosWired You are right, sometimes when u have a big story you forget to mention some basics. I think that thinking of him is the most precise word. I would like to fuck with him but that's not the center of my feelings. There are times that there is a balance and I'm okay, we're like regular brothers. And others that I just really need him now to hug me. That's true for him too. About why I came back and the "cake" paradigm.. We grew up in a large city and our lives are there. We own the house so that means that we have no rent and if we were on rent we would have something way smaller. So financially it's not viable, unless we sold the house and buy two small appartments. So apart from the stay together part, it's the practical part. Part of my fear is that he could feel the same. I believe our mother was afraid of that, and that she couldn't even say it out loud. Aboyt my bf, I thought that I needed to try a healthy relationship. I did fell in love with him. What I really like is that he loves my brother too, they are on good terms. I also appreciated that he didnt do what many gays would do; ask for a threesome. Our father kinda knew. As children we would sleep together but our mother would seperate us. When she wasn't there (visiting our grandparents) he would let  us sleep together. About the "brother thinks I was angry" it's more intense that it sounds. I could feel his sadness. 

@backdoorjimmy I really don't know what I should tell to my brother. I fear he feels the same. And I think that's bad. My bf knows how much I love him and maybe deep down he knows. But I love my bf, I am with him bcz it feels nice. I didnt pick him as a desperate solution.

@hntnholeI can really feel ur story. What twins feel and why is a mystery. it's something that I avoid to discuss. I have similar stories. We have a blood disease (hemophilia) which is pretty mild. But we do take medication and implications have happened. I was sleeping with my best friend in my room and I was mumbling my bros name. He woke me up and told me that maybe I should check on him and while he was sleeping he was bleeding from the noose and choking. I have many similar incidents. I can feel his heart beating fast. I can feel his emotions.