Consequences for taking high viral count loads

[Daddysapig]

Ok. This guy I met online is trying to talk me into going to a recharge party. He's undetectable but enamored by the thought of taking multiple

High viral count loads from unmedicated guys and "especially from guys showing signs of wasting." I started to explain to him why this was a bad idea then realized I didn't know anything factual and I'd only be giving him my opinion. So my question is: What are the consequences, definite as well as possible, for an undetectable guy in this situation?

[Guest]

well i seek high vl, unmed, and full blown guys but am still neg. so risk must be a relative thing. feel free to show me risk is real!

[Daddysapig]

@nastysubbbbottom, 

I would think that every poz person out there is a testament to how real the risk is.

II skirted it for 42 years, even thought I must be immune. Who knows, you may never get it but I'd be willing to bet you just haven't been exposed under the right circumstances. 

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, Daddysapig said:

Ok. This guy I met online is trying to talk me into going to a recharge party. He's undetectable but enamored by the thought of taking multiple

High viral count loads from unmedicated guys and "especially from guys showing signs of wasting." I started to explain to him why this was a bad idea then realized I didn't know anything factual and I'd only be giving him my opinion. So my question is: What are the consequences, definite as well as possible, for an undetectable guy in this situation?

There's not a huge amount of data about this because it's not the kind of thing scientists are likely to want to study; the assumption is that any normal, sane, HIV+ person is going to want to get his viral load undetectable and keep it there while at the same time imposing the least "toll" on the rest of his body's systems (because HIV medications can and do take a toll on things like your kidneys, your liver, and more). Science isn't particularly interested (for good reason) in investigating "Hey, what happens when a bunch of undetectable poz guys deliberately expose themselves repeatedly to high viral loads?"

What we DO know, however, is that there are variants (or subtypes) of HIV. We also know that it's possible for HIV to become med-resistant in a person who (deliberately or not) stays "on meds" but only sporadically. We know that modern HIV treatment works very well at keeping a controlled HIV infection under control. We know that within reason, that same treatment can help ward off reinfection by other strains of HIV as long as those are not med-resistant. 

It sounds to me like the "event" your friend is talking about is either guys hoping to get a superinfection (ie additional strains of HIV for their body/meds to fight off) or even to get a med-resistant strain. Regardless of the actual risk involved, to me this sounds very much like insanity; you've already got to live the rest of your life with a virus that requires daily attention to keep from killing you, and they want you to risk making that even more complex (or worse, impossible to manage)? For what? The temporary "thrill" of some risky sex?

Honestly, I don't see why such people don't just take up Russian Roulette and keep adding bullets until the chamber of the pistol is full. If someone's life is so empty that they need a thrill from the risk of making complex disease management even more so, or possibly putting management out of reach, there are a lot more efficient ways to honor that suicidal impulse.

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, nastysubbbbottom said:

well i seek high vl, unmed, and full blown guys but am still neg. so risk must be a relative thing. feel free to show me risk is real!

I think there are about 750,000 dead people in the US alone who would show you the risk is real, but they can't, because they're dead. I'm sure most of them would happily let you take their place if it meant they had a choice not to contract HIV in the first place. 

[NEDenver]

7 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

I think there are about 750,000 dead people in the US alone who would show you the risk is real, but they can't, because they're dead. I'm sure most of them would happily let you take their place if it meant they had a choice not to contract HIV in the first place. 

Hell, if I could give him my virus and no longer have it, I would.

[Daddysapig]

@BootmanLA

I couldn't find anything that common sense didn't already tell me.

Thank you for your input. I know it will help. 

[Pozguyinchi]

I have always thought the idea of unmediated poz men was a fantasy. I have been poz since I was 19 and never have I run into a man (since the possibility of being undetectable)that wanted to have the effects of hiv. 

[wood]

4 hours ago, Pozguyinchi said:

I have always thought the idea of unmediated poz men was a fantasy. I have been poz since I was 19 and never have I run into a man (since the possibility of being undetectable)that wanted to have the effects of hiv. 

Honestly that’s why I’m backing off this site, I’ve never met a single person in life that likes being sick in any regard but the fantasy of this site has normalized the idea that advanced HIV is cool, and you still function. 
 

you don’t, and you won’t want to fuck either. 

[Pozguyinchi]

17 hours ago, wood said:

Honestly that’s why I’m backing off this site, I’ve never met a single person in life that likes being sick in any regard but the fantasy of this site has normalized the idea that advanced HIV is cool, and you still function. 
 

you don’t, and you won’t want to fuck either. 

I own my status and have been extremely lucky to have had little or no effects from hiv but I have stated before on this site if they had a cure I would take it tomorrow. With all the advancements in preventative treatment staying neg can be easy. Either you are poz or neg we have the same sex and only have to take a pill a day. 

[wood]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:54 AM, Pozguyinchi said:

I own my status and have been extremely lucky to have had little or no effects from hiv but I have stated before on this site if they had a cure I would take it tomorrow. With all the advancements in preventative treatment staying neg can be easy. Either you are poz or neg we have the same sex and only have to take a pill a day. 

What’s funny is that I have taken loads from newly infected poz guys before. 
 

I knew what I was doing,

and I have plenty of trust in the medication/prep I was taken. And it worked.  I have zero clue what their viral load was but it happened twice, but got the flu and we fucked just after they felt better but hadn’t started meds yet. 
 

But, you already said it best, staying neg is easy now, all I did was take my pill, and even with highly infectious fucks, I was fine. 

[120DaysofSodom]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:33 PM, wood said:

Honestly that’s why I’m backing off this site, I’ve never met a single person in life that likes being sick in any regard but the fantasy of this site has normalized the idea that advanced HIV is cool, and you still function. 
 

you don’t, and you won’t want to fuck either. 

I think for a lot of people (I know this is the case for me anyways and I presume others) that are masochists, being infected with something that can kill you is erotic because... well, its masochistic. For me, it was always a massive fantasy. I didnt willingly become positive though, it just happened because I grew accustomed to barebacking and everywhere I go, I go to bathhouses and sex clubs, and events, and so it wasnt really hard to get.

But dealing with HIV is a huge annoyance in life, all the doctors visits and what not. IDK why anybody would willingly accept having to take all that on.

[Guest]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:31 AM, Pozguyinchi said:

I have always thought the idea of unmediated poz men was a fantasy. I have been poz since I was 19 and never have I run into a man (since the possibility of being undetectable)that wanted to have the effects of hiv. 

i agree. i think that particular myth as well as a lot of things i read on breedingzone are fantasies and myths. if not then various facts about these topics are incorrect. in fact even the site is somewhat mythical. it's called breedingzone afterall but suspensions for talking about certain things even under the correct forum topic result in varieties of suspensions. hidden posts as well.  it is more a fantasy story or discussion zone than an actual breeding zone. which is fine. i come here more for sensationalism than for actual meets. not that i wouldn't but so far have had no meets. i use bbrt and nkp very successfully for that purpose. bz can be fun for reading with a partner as a turn on or learning about potential breeding organized activities such as info on cumunion, etc. but we all have different experiences on all these sites so they are all great options to have.

[viking8x6]

28 minutes ago, nastysubbbbottom said:

In fact even the site is somewhat mythical... talking about certain things even under the correct forum topic result in varieties of suspensions.  ...it is more a fantasy story or discussion zone than an actual breeding zone.

1. There are topics that are outright banned on the site. There are topics that have to be posted in specific areas on the site. The details are all spelled out very clearly. The topic is titled (appropriately) "Read Before You Post".

2. Breeding Zone is a discussion forum. It is not intended nor designed as a place to hook up for in-person sex. @rawTOP is working on that sort of thing, and has even posted a topic soliciting ideas for how to make it better than the other ones out there.

[rawTOP]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:20 PM, Daddysapig said:

Ok. This guy I met online is trying to talk me into going to a recharge party. He's undetectable but enamored by the thought of taking multiple

High viral count loads from unmedicated guys and "especially from guys showing signs of wasting." I started to explain to him why this was a bad idea then realized I didn't know anything factual and I'd only be giving him my opinion. So my question is: What are the consequences, definite as well as possible, for an undetectable guy in this situation?

It's a good question.

Back before ARVs there were no meds-resistant strains because there were no meds. The folk wisdom at the time (not sure if it was based in any science) was that it was good to challenge your immune system with new strains because your immune system gets in an equilibrium with your strain but when presented with a new strain your immune system kicks into high gear, produces more antibodies, which fends off the new strain and helps control your existing strain. My understanding is that you only have one dominant strain of HIV at a time (unless you're a rare case who has both HIV-1 and HIV-2). The existing strain usually wins when challenged by a new strain, but not always. So even back then guys were risking a more aggressive strain winning over an established mild strain. But the reverse could happen as well - a strain with fewer effects, but more "fitness" could win out over a harsher but more fragile strain. But since ARVs came out none of that exactly applies these days.

These days the risk for undetectable guys is that they take a load that's meds resistant to the meds they're taking and then their meds stop being effective and then they've got a meds-resistant strain. What I don't now is whether, if that happens multiple times, will it will narrow the number of meds that will work for him? There are a limited number of types of meds and there are some strains that are resistant to a lot of meds - which are clearly bad news if one of those becomes your dominant strain. The more you chase strains the more likely you are to get one of those bad boys.

I've known friends-of-friends who've died that way, but I don't know if they had other issues - like drug use, or if they were taking their meds properly, or how damaged their body was when they first started meds (they were typically pretty long-term survivors).

So a question for someone who knows more than me… If a toxic guy who had a strain that was meds-resistant for A & B sought out more strains and had another strain that was resistant to C & D take over as his dominant strain, would he still be meds-resistant to A & B from the earlier strain?