Continuing a story

[TravelGuy1956]

There are stories here on B/Z that seem to be abandoned, yet beg to be continued both figuratively and literally.  My question is,  would it be improper for another member of B/Z to take up and continue  a story in the absence of the original writer?  If so,  what is the proper amount of time to wait before continuing another members story?  Thanks in advance to all who respond. 

[AlwaysOpen]

I would think the thing to do would be to message the original poster first and see if 1} they are still even on the site and 2} if they would prefer you not, or agree to let you pick up the thread. In a lot of cases, I suspect the original writer has moved on from the site, or from this planet- and if that is the case, I might suggest the thing to do is put up a post at the last entry in that story posting explaining the original author is no longer available to continue, and in the desire to keep the story going, you would be starting the writing process soon. If guys have the story on follow, this will bring it back in their focus and perhaps give you positive feedback and ideas to persue.

[BootmanLA]

On 7/13/2022 at 5:01 PM, AlwaysOpen said:

I would think the thing to do would be to message the original poster first and see if 1} they are still even on the site and 2} if they would prefer you not, or agree to let you pick up the thread. In a lot of cases, I suspect the original writer has moved on from the site, or from this planet- and if that is the case, I might suggest the thing to do is put up a post at the last entry in that story posting explaining the original author is no longer available to continue, and in the desire to keep the story going, you would be starting the writing process soon. If guys have the story on follow, this will bring it back in their focus and perhaps give you positive feedback and ideas to persue.

Agreed - but I would add this: I'd start the new story line in a separate topic/folder, with perhaps a link back to the inspiration. Something like: "Some years ago X member wrote a fiction piece called [insert link to the story here]." Then as appropriate, continue with one of the following:

1. "The author is no longer a member of BZ and has not posted any updates to this story in X years."

2. "The author is not interested in continuing this story, but has consented to let me develop the plotline further."

3. "Efforts to reach the author have been unsuccessful; I'm going to develop this storyline myself, so please understand this is not the original author's plot."

And in any event, I'd be prepared to request deletion of the topic IF the original author resurfaces and objects to what you're doing with his characters.

Alternatively, you could simply redevelop the story as you would have written it - not simply changing the names and some of the dialogue, but actually rewriting the story from scratch - and then continuing it. You could note "Inspired by the story [Name of story] written by member X" at the beginning of your own thread.

[ErosWired]

Be aware that just because story is written in a public forum does not place it in the public domain. You are no more at liberty to appropriate another person’s written creative work than you are his photographs. It is not sufficient to simply say “this is inspired by the work of X” and then use X’s characters, plots, and settings as though they were your own. There is no provision in copyright law for claiming salvage to “abandoned” works, and indeed, copyright to a work does not expire upon the death of the author, but continues to accrue to the estate for decades.

If you’re truly inspired by someone else’s story, take that inspiration and come up with something new. If you’ve got the writer’s chops to do justice to his work, then you have the ability to do justice to your own ideas.

[BootmanLA]

28 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

Be aware that just because story is written in a public forum does not place it in the public domain. You are no more at liberty to appropriate another person’s written creative work than you are his photographs. It is not sufficient to simply say “this is inspired by the work of X” and then use X’s characters, plots, and settings as though they were your own. There is no provision in copyright law for claiming salvage to “abandoned” works, and indeed, copyright to a work does not expire upon the death of the author, but continues to accrue to the estate for decades.

If you’re truly inspired by someone else’s story, take that inspiration and come up with something new. If you’ve got the writer’s chops to do justice to his work, then you have the ability to do justice to your own ideas.

Everything you write is certainly accurate insofar as legal issues are concerned.

I was writing more about what's ethically dubious vs. what's more ethically defensible. If we focused on legality, virtually every piece of "fan fic" would be (is) a violation of copyright law, except for characters in the public domain (for example, Sherlock Holmes, or the pre-Disney Winnie the Pooh).

Practically speaking, however, even the legal copyright would probably go unenforced in practical terms, even if the case against an infringement were iron-clad, if the infringer didn't respond to legal threats. Because those legal threats, in the context of a BZ story, are probably hollow; I can't envision anyone posting in BZ fiction forums willing to go to federal court to vindicate copyright over a sex story involving gay bareback sex, much less a story from the Gifting/Breeding/Stealthing or similar sections.

As I said, that's not to "OK" the practice of jumping off from someone else's story. My point is that it's probably impractical to plan on enforcing a copyright. except insofar as the moderating staff here removing the infringing files.

[ErosWired]

8 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I was writing more about what's ethically dubious vs. what's more ethically defensible.

Just because you can get away with something doesn’t automatically put it in the category of ethically defensible. It’s still one person appropriating something that does not belong to him for his own use. That’s generically referred to as “theft”.  Now, you might say that nothing’s been stolen, the original story is still right there. But let’s say that this guy does try to contact the author and get permission to use the work and, for whatever reason, is unable to do so. He does what he wants anyway. Then, the author comes back to continue his work, only to find that some fucker has had the temerity not only to co-opt his creative skills, but to then take his story in a direction he didn’t want it to go. Suddenly he can’t complete his own work and realize his own vision without there being two “alternate endings” out there, one that carries his intent, and one that does not.

 I’m sorry, but one of the hats I wear in real life is that of a published novelist. No credible writer defends this kind of practice. It isn’t ethically acceptable, whether the law gets enforced or not. And yes, not only is every piece of “fan fiction” out there a violation of the law, the vast majority of it is a violation of the senses - it’s godawful. So not only have these talentless hacks ripped off someone else’s characters, they’ve then degraded them by running them through a sausage-mill of ham-handed, amatuerish prose. This doesn’t even count the putrid sea of dreck out there that takes other people’s characters and makes them enact scenes of sexual depravity.

If this dude wants to write a story, he can make up his own. He’s got all the space he needs to type it in.

[BootmanLA]

11 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Just because you can get away with something doesn’t automatically put it in the category of ethically defensible.

I never used the word "automatically" and I'm not saying the latter is invariably the result of the former.

11 hours ago, ErosWired said:

That’s generically referred to as “theft”.  Now, you might say that nothing’s been stolen, the original story is still right there.

Since you're a legal purist, I would point out that this is not, in fact, "theft" - which has a legal definition. (That definition may technically vary, from state to state, but I guarantee that none of those state definitions includes "writing a piece of fiction for a website that includes a copyright violation". If you're going to be a stickler for the absolutes of copyright law, you should be a stickler for absolutes in legal meanings, period.

11 hours ago, ErosWired said:

But let’s say that this guy does try to contact the author and get permission to use the work and, for whatever reason, is unable to do so. He does what he wants anyway. Then, the author comes back to continue his work, only to find that some fucker has had the temerity not only to co-opt his creative skills, but to then take his story in a direction he didn’t want it to go. Suddenly he can’t complete his own work and realize his own vision without there being two “alternate endings” out there, one that carries his intent, and one that does not.

Which is one reason I suggested that anyone "continuing" someone else's story do so in a separate thread. That way, if the original author resurfaces after eight or nine years and suddenly has a burning desire to resurrect characters he abandoned nearly a decade prior, there's nothing in his thread polluting his artistic vision. I write snarkily, but the point is the same: If Member 1 writes a story about Joe and Bob and their antics, even if someone else writes a new thread about Joe and Bob and those characters so strongly resemble his own that a DNA test wouldn't distinguish them, the ethics of the situation aren't as clear-cut as you seem to think.

11 hours ago, ErosWired said:

 I’m sorry, but one of the hats I wear in real life is that of a published novelist. No credible writer defends this kind of practice.

Please notify me when you find a "credible writer" publishing pozzing fiction on BZ. I'll order takeout for the (very) long wait we'll have until then.

11 hours ago, ErosWired said:

And yes, not only is every piece of “fan fiction” out there a violation of the law, the vast majority of it is a violation of the senses - it’s godawful.

I agree. But yet, the world continues to spin on its axis, and night follows day every every 23 hours and 56 minutes, despite this outrage. 

Look: I get it, you're a published author, and this idea - that someone, somewhere, might be misappropriating fictional characters they didn't create - how dare they! And from a purist perspective, sure, you're right. But of all the things a person can get riled up about, I personally wouldn't put this in the top, say, 50 thousand. Your mileage may vary.

[ErosWired]

51 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

Look: I get it, you're a published author, and this idea - that someone, somewhere, might be misappropriating fictional characters they didn't create - how dare they! And from a purist perspective, sure, you're right. But of all the things a person can get riled up about, I personally wouldn't put this in the top, say, 50 thousand. Your mileage may vary.

No, you wouldn’t, because you don’t have any skin in the game. We all choose the hill on which we fight and die, on which we finally stand on principle. I’m sure yours is just as vital to you. I’m not going to tell you your battle is ridiculous.

Theft (define it how you like) of intellectual property is epidemic, grossly exacerbated by the advent of the internet, and getting worse by the day, aided and abetted by apologists who pooh-pooh it as nothing to get riled up over.

No, the world isn’t going to stop spinning if some dude steals somebody else’s storyline on a tawdry pornographic forum and scrawls out something to fap to. But so far, we haven’t waited for the world to stand still before deciding that a thing is something we shouldn’t do. Since we can’t actually stop the earth turning, justifying anything on the grounds that it won’t make the earth stop spinning is carte blanche for anything humans are capable of - and therefore it can’t be taken as a justification for anything at all.

Edited July 16, 2022 by ErosWired

[TravelGuy1956]

Holy shit,  I just thought guys would like to see some popular, but long abandoned stories continued.  I didn't know it would turn into a discussion on ethics and copy right issues.  

[ErosWired]

12 hours ago, TravelGuy1956 said:

Holy shit,  I just thought guys would like to see some popular, but long abandoned stories continued.  I didn't know it would turn into a discussion on ethics and copy right issues.  

But you didn’t ask whether people wanted to see stories continued - you asked if it was proper, which indicates that you understood it might not be. We answered the question you asked to the best of our ability, from alternate viewpoints.

[funpozbottom]

13 hours ago, TravelGuy1956 said:

Holy shit,  I just thought guys would like to see some popular, but long abandoned stories continued.  I didn't know it would turn into a discussion on ethics and copy right issues.  

Oh, surely you knew, on this site, if drama can be created, drama will be made. 🙂

But it is a good question as to what do to if you'd like to see a story continued. Here's my personal opinion of steps I'd take if I wanted to continue a story:

First, try to contact the original author to see if they plan to continue the story and/or if they would permit you to write a side story. If you don't get a response within a "reasonable" amount of time, the author may have left the site and/ or abandoned the story.  If that's the case, I'd start a new thread that picks up a story "inspired by" the original. (in your intro, say what it's inspired by and link to the original if you want.)  Write a story that stands on it's own but with some similarities to the original so that other fans can see some continuity between the two. By starting a new thread, you leave space for the original author to return to his work, and you aren't accused of appropriating someone else's story. It would also give you more freedom to express yourself instead of trying to mimic someone else's writing style, and you won't be locked in to a particular character set. This would allow you to spin off stories of any new characters that you create. In that way, you could be on your way to creating your own Marvel-ous Slut-iverse of interconnected plots and characters.

Edited July 16, 2022 by funpozbottom

[viking8x6]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:29 PM, TravelGuy1956 said:

There are stories here on B/Z that seem to be abandoned, yet beg to be continued both figuratively and literally.  My question is,  would it be improper for another member of B/Z to take up and continue  a story in the absence of the original writer?  If so,  what is the proper amount of time to wait before continuing another members story?  Thanks in advance to all who respond. 

Short answer: Yes, it would be improper, unless you have the explicit blessing of the original author. Here's a quote from one of our senior members and most-loved authors that demonstrates why:

On 7/13/2022 at 12:21 AM, chi4loads said:

He asked for permission to post his original, but posted it anyway after waiting only two hours for me to respond.  I don't live on BZ and don't consider that sufficient time to reply.   As I messaged to him privately, there are many ways to take the basic concept of my story and make it your own, but that version (and its replacement) were a thinly veiled rewrite of my story.  It gives me NO incentive to post any more fiction here, since the hours I spend writing/re-writing and editing just get taken and used by someone else as their own.

I'm done with BZ for a while and uninterested in discussing this further.  If this stirs up another hornet's nest, then just add "Guest " to the beginning of my username.

It's great to get inspired by a piece that seems to have been cut short. But your work needs to stand on its own, and certainly should not be posted in the same topic with the "original" story. @BootmanLA's  final paragraph is really the right way to go here:

On 7/14/2022 at 8:04 PM, BootmanLA said:

Alternatively, you could simply redevelop the story as you would have written it - not simply changing the names and some of the dialogue, but actually rewriting the story from scratch - and then continuing it. You could note "Inspired by the story [Name of story] written by member X" at the beginning of your own thread.

 

[pervinmt]

As a contributing writer on here, and one that has a terrible habit of not finishing stories, here is my two cents, whether wanted or not. Obviously, I have no idea if I'm one of the people being referred to or not, but that's irrelevant.

I would not want anyone continuing my stories regardless of the reason or intent. They're my stories, not yours. And there's a myriad of reasons for not continuing a story. Dealing with mental and physical health issues is certainly one of them. Sometimes, I may write myself into a corner and can't quite figure out how I want to get out of it. Sometimes I just become bored with a story at a certain point and lose interest. It happens. Another factor is BZ is not the only site I contribute to. I have so very many ideas in my head that I want to get out, and not all of them fall into BZ's guidelines. Most of my stories I honestly do intend to continue and at least provide a conclusion for, but I can't guarantee that will happen. I'm not perfect.

That being said, I can only speak for myself. Other people may not give a rats ass. But my stories are my stories, and I'm protective of them. They're my thoughts, no one else's. Write your own stories.

If my comment makes people think I'm an asshole, so be it. I've been called worse. If my comments make people say they won't read my stories anymore, also, so be it. I can live with that. 

To those who do enjoy them, thanks. 

[Guest]

As someone who has written two stories on here, one to completion and not, I agree with asking the author. The one I didn't complete wasn't because I lost interest. I stopped because it seemed the readers lost interest. If some messaged me I'd either finish it or I'd let them finish it or add to it referring what I started. 

[BootmanLA]

Along these lines, I'd like to throw something else out there, which probably won't be a popular opinion (but then it's mine, so it doesn't have to be shared by anyone else).

I have written fiction for other sites, though nothing posted here. And there's a particular reason why not: the inevitable chorus of people who want to tell the author what he should do with his characters in subsequent chapters or posts.

Feedback is a good thing, especially if it's positive. Personally, I don't even object to negative feedback, as long as it's something I can work with (constructive, rather than destructive), but not everyone wants negative feedback. But when I write a story, I generally have the plotline worked out in my head; I know where it's going, I know where it's going to end up, and what I don't want is people telling me I "should" (god, I hate that word) have them do this or that or the other.

It's insulting. As many people have driven home, these are the AUTHOR'S characters; it's for him to develop them as he sees fit, and absent asking "What would you like to see Jim do next" (or whatever), I don't want that kind of feedback. It's telling me that MY idea for MY characters isn't what you want.

Here's a hint: if you want a character who's going to do X, then write a fucking story of your own where your character does X. Don't tell me how I should write mine.

And because this attitude - "Hot story! Jim needs to give in to his urges and do X and then do Y and then do Z!" - is so prevalent on here, I just haven't got any interest in sharing my writing. (A decision for which some of you, I'm sure, are very grateful.)