Open relationships vs cheating.

[mattg]

I've always loved cheating in relationships, I've cheated on every partner I've ever had and in turn I think they've pretty much all cheated on me, and I have no problem with this. Have any regular cheaters been in open relationships, and if so, have you found the "away leg" of fucking less enjoyable if your partner has given it the green light. 

[BootmanLA]

10 hours ago, daveinkent1 said:

I've always loved cheating in relationships, I've cheated on every partner I've ever had and in turn I think they've pretty much all cheated on me, and I have no problem with this. Have any regular cheaters been in open relationships, and if so, have you found the "away leg" of fucking less enjoyable if your partner has given it the green light. 

"Cheating" by its very definition means breaking the rules. If you have an open relationship, you are not "cheating" unless you break the rules you and your partner have set governing open-ness. For instance, if you have a rule that says you can't have sex with someone else in our own bed, and you do that anyway, that's a form of cheating. Some people have rules that outside sex has to be "safe", or you can't have sex with the same guy more than once, or with anyone you both consider a friend. Again, unless the sex violates such a rule, whatever it might be, it's not cheating.

So if there are no rules, there can be no cheating, by definition. And if you have no objection to your partner having sex with others, period, he is not cheating on you. By definition.

[mattg]

9 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

"Cheating" by its very definition means breaking the rules. If you have an open relationship, you are not "cheating" unless you break the rules you and your partner have set governing open-ness. For instance, if you have a rule that says you can't have sex with someone else in our own bed, and you do that anyway, that's a form of cheating. Some people have rules that outside sex has to be "safe", or you can't have sex with the same guy more than once, or with anyone you both consider a friend. Again, unless the sex violates such a rule, whatever it might be, it's not cheating.

So if there are no rules, there can be no cheating, by definition. And if you have no objection to your partner having sex with others, period, he is not cheating on you. By definition.

True. However, my question was to the people who have been in bot situations. I have cheated on my partner, but never with his knowledge or permission. I have never been on an open relationship,  and I was wondering to the the people that have experienced both, which they found most exciting. Clearly, my question was poorly worded, but that's where I was going. 

[barebackbro]

On 10/5/2022 at 7:08 PM, daveinkent1 said:

True. However, my question was to the people who have been in bot situations. I have cheated on my partner, but never with his knowledge or permission. I have never been on an open relationship,  and I was wondering to the the people that have experienced both, which they found most exciting. Clearly, my question was poorly worded, but that's where I was going. 

Great question.

My experience is:

• in an genuinely open relationship without loads of rule, it's easier to fuck with other guys, so you get plenty of action
• when you're cheating, there are fewer opportunities and you can sometimes be rushed BUT that bad boy sex is usually amazing

[downtownswallow]

Cheating while in a relationship actually says you're not in a relationship. It demonstrates dissatisfaction with your status and the so-called "relationship" should end.  Otherwise, the cheater is simply using the other person which is wrong.  

[BootmanLA]

4 hours ago, downtownswallow said:

Cheating while in a relationship actually says you're not in a relationship. It demonstrates dissatisfaction with your status and the so-called "relationship" should end.  Otherwise, the cheater is simply using the other person which is wrong.  

Not to be seen as endorsing cheating in any way (more on that in a moment), but I would strongly disagree with the notion that cheating = complete invalidation of the relationship.

Monogamy is hard. Some people will no doubt argue with that notion, and hey, if they find it easy, more power to them. The fact that they're such masters of their libidos that they can always resist any temptation, no matter how it's presented, is something that perhaps merits a scientific study. For the rest of us, monogamy is a choice that we may or may not make, and even if we do, it can be a struggle at times depending on circumstances. Interpersonal issues in a relationship, schedule conflicts, proximity to other opportunities, mismatched libidos - any number of things can lead to cheating. And again, not to defend it, but it's odd how many men consider that a relationship-breaker, an unforgiveable sin, when so many other offenses are (in my view) so much worse, and yet they're forgiveable.

To me, saying that cheating must end a relationship is no different, really, than saying that open relationships aren't real relationships. If the parties involved can get past an episode or spate of cheating, however they do it, that's fine with me.

As for endorsing cheating: sometimes it's the least bad option available. That's more true of straight married couples, but it can be true of unmarried couples, gay couples, and others. Sometimes one partner unilaterally withdraws sex, for instance, but splitting up is way more trouble and expensive than it's worth. Sometimes one partner is no longer physically capable of having sex; should the other partner be required to either give up sex entirely or else break up the relationship, possibly leaving his partner in an even worse position? Some couples who are parents stay together for the sake of their children, and can co-parent effectively while no longer having any interest in sex with each other (or one loses interest or can't physically participate) - should they be forced to split up and shuttle the kids back and forth? In some cases, discreet cheating - and I do mean discreet, such that the partner and/or kids never know about it - can be the only thing that keeps the cheater's life together for him to be a caregiving partner or parent.

There's a world of difference, of course, between that and people who cheat because they think it's exciting to transgress. I feel sorry for the partners they're choosing to deliberately hurt in pursuit of their cheap thrills.

[PozBearWI]

4 hours ago, downtownswallow said:

Cheating while in a relationship actually says you're not in a relationship. It demonstrates dissatisfaction with your status and the so-called "relationship" should end.  Otherwise, the cheater is simply using the other person which is wrong.  

@downtownswallow it really isn't up to you to decide that.  Those who are IN the relationship define it; and they are the only ones who should decide whether cheating invalidates their agreement so badly that they dissolve the relationship.  But good that you've a handle on what your requirements are for your relationship(s).  

[analluv27]

36 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

Not to be seen as endorsing cheating in any way (more on that in a moment), but I would strongly disagree with the notion that cheating = complete invalidation of the relationship.

Monogamy is hard. Some people will no doubt argue with that notion, and hey, if they find it easy, more power to them. The fact that they're such masters of their libidos that they can always resist any temptation, no matter how it's presented, is something that perhaps merits a scientific study. For the rest of us, monogamy is a choice that we may or may not make, and even if we do, it can be a struggle at times depending on circumstances. Interpersonal issues in a relationship, schedule conflicts, proximity to other opportunities, mismatched libidos - any number of things can lead to cheating. And again, not to defend it, but it's odd how many men consider that a relationship-breaker, an unforgiveable sin, when so many other offenses are (in my view) so much worse, and yet they're forgiveable.

To me, saying that cheating must end a relationship is no different, really, than saying that open relationships aren't real relationships. If the parties involved can get past an episode or spate of cheating, however they do it, that's fine with me.

As for endorsing cheating: sometimes it's the least bad option available. That's more true of straight married couples, but it can be true of unmarried couples, gay couples, and others. Sometimes one partner unilaterally withdraws sex, for instance, but splitting up is way more trouble and expensive than it's worth. Sometimes one partner is no longer physically capable of having sex; should the other partner be required to either give up sex entirely or else break up the relationship, possibly leaving his partner in an even worse position? Some couples who are parents stay together for the sake of their children, and can co-parent effectively while no longer having any interest in sex with each other (or one loses interest or can't physically participate) - should they be forced to split up and shuttle the kids back and forth? In some cases, discreet cheating - and I do mean discreet, such that the partner and/or kids never know about it - can be the only thing that keeps the cheater's life together for him to be a caregiving partner or parent.

There's a world of difference, of course, between that and people who cheat because they think it's exciting to transgress. I feel sorry for the partners they're choosing to deliberately hurt in pursuit of their cheap thrills.

This is by far the description of some of the dynamics in infidelity. Emotionally we like to think it's rather cut and dry, but in cases of a couple having children it can complicate things. 

Sometimes even if one isn't happy they may recognize in separating it could do more harm. For example a person does cheat realize they could just call the marriage off (which most would say is the proper thing to do) but their spouse isn't working and has something like cancer. Once a divorce is finalized that former spouse loses medical coverage. Now unless the person hated their spouse there's no real happy ending

[PozBearWI]

43 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

There's a world of difference, of course, between that and people who cheat because they think it's exciting to transgress. I feel sorry for the partners they're choosing to deliberately hurt in pursuit of their cheap thrills.

Ah lovely recollections of my last relationship.  Sweet guy but traveled a lot globally and had a family in every city....  Every time he came home from a week or three long trip he broke up with me.  Then a few days later he "UN-brokeup".  It became the defining characteristic of that relationship.  Ended when I decided to not accept the UN-breakup.  Once it was clear monogamy was one sided that ended long before we broke up.  

[PozBearWI]

2 minutes ago, analluv27 said:

This is by far the description of some of the dynamics in infidelity. Emotionally we like to think it's rather cut and dry, but in cases of a couple having children it can complicate things. 

Sometimes even if one isn't happy they may recognize in separating it could do more harm. For example a person does cheat realize they could just call the marriage off (which most would say is the proper thing to do) but their spouse isn't working and has something like cancer. Once a divorce is finalized that former spouse loses medical coverage. Now unless the person hated their spouse there's no real happy ending

I have sexual friends who are in exactly this position.  And in my generation it was not uncommon for spouses to stay together for a variety of reasons.  Save for the death of one there was nothing unhappy in their relationship.  They chose to experience each others lives to the end.  The exact foundation of my present relationship.  What we do sexually has evolved and that is no one else's business.  Our choices do not cause each other suffering; something we are aware of with each other because we communicate candidly.  There is a big world out there of couples (and even couples +) who navigate and negotiate meaningful, fulfilling relationships with rules between them you might not accept.  I don't understand this returning penchant to define what the rules are in others private lives?  Especially in our relationships those rules belong only within that relationship.