Bottoms who are NOT into being someone's lil' bitch :-)

[PhoenixGeoff]

It's generally a case of people, both doms and subs, having a personal definition of what these terms mean that other's probably don't have. To me a dom is a guy who will take charge during sex as that is what their partner wants and needs. They're not a guy who is selfish and bullying, that's just being a douche. I would class myself as mostly sub, but to my mind that's not the same as passive. I won't let a guy do anything to me I don't want them to, but I do want them to be sure of what they're doing and what they want. And if they aren't going hard or deep enough I'll grab them and make them.

 

I don't think that identifying as sub is a particularly 'feminine' attitude. It's a guy who knows what he wants from the guy who's fucking him and who wants to give themselves to the moment.

 

Edited to add: God, I love this site for being able to have discussions like this.

 

Yeah, let me clarify my interpretation of dom vs. sub here.  Again, it's completely divorced from top vs. bottom.  Every top on this site has run into dom bottoms (less charitably known as the "pushy bottom").

 

A dom, to my way of thinking, is the person who takes charge of the scene.  This is often interpreted as meaning that the scene rotates strictly around the dom's desires, but the reality is that's only true of shitty, self-centered doms.  Good doms will seek to know their subs as well as they can, because a good dom views his control of the scene as a responsibility he has towards all of the other participants.  And he will therefore direct the scene towards the maximum long-term pleasure of everyone concerned (which isn't to say that a good dom won't push you, but he or she will know just how hard to push, when to stop, what direction to push in and how not to step over the line). 

 

Being a dom is all about creating an experience for your sub.

 

A sub, on the other hand, bears obligations towards the dom as well.  Complete candor about who he or she is, what he's done, what he's enjoyed in the past and what he hasn't; being willing to do whatever is asked (within negotiated bounds) even things that are uncomfortable; and giving the dom trust that he or she will ultimately take the scene in a healthy and enjoyable direction.

 

Being a sub is all about surrendering to the experience your dom is creating for you.

 

In a way, a D/s relationship is kind of like a mentor/mentee relationship.  And I do believe that experience is absolutely vital for a dom (whether gained under the teaching of another dom or as a sub), whereas all a good sub needs is the right attitude.

[berlinboi]

I don't understand the US concept of Alpha Males - I'm a Gay man and the reason I have an extremely strong preference to men is that my DNA and hard wiring in my brain is both my authentic birth right and my human right. It's been going on since the diversity of the species (even if it was hidden or formalised as in Greece). Thus I find men much more intriguing and individual than women as potential partners either sexual or romantic - yet I get on with women and men equaly well socially. 

 

My gamut of responses to men range from animal lust to the need for deep romantic intimacy. I have no rules for my sex life excepting ethics and the law. I am King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Male, Female all in one. No boundaries on my imagination when i'm being fucked as long as it turns  both myself and the top on. When I tell a top `fill my cunt with your cock` it's not about power it's about dynamic imaginative equality. It's the same as saying `fill my male cunt with your cock`. My arse becomes a focus for universality.

 

Just because I say these things in bed it doesn't mean that I act like this in my outside life whether professionally or socially - the same as a straight male sub is to his mistress.Out of the bedroom they act like any other couple. I even know two people like this.

 

Then each to their own as they say.

[PhoenixGeoff]

My gamut of responses to men range from animal lust to the need for deep romantic intimacy. I have no rules for my sex life excepting ethics and the law. I am King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Male, Female all in one. No boundaries on my imagination when i'm being fucked as long as it turns  both myself and the top on. When I tell a top `fill my cunt with your cock` it's not about power it's about dynamic imaginative equality. It's the same as saying `fill my male cunt with your cock`. My arse becomes a focus for universality.

 

And yet you see your identity as a "boi" so strongly that you put it in your screen name.  Curious. 

[berlinboi]

It's a b with berlin - if it was guernsey i'd call it `guernsey guy` 

[cam1972]

But that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of men out there, even bottoms, who identify as 100% male and who attracted to other 100% males.  And that includes everything that goes along with what it means to be a man:  appearance, attitude, relationships, the whole nine yards. 

 

So here's where I'll out myself as thinking that seeing two alpha males clash with each other in a sexual way is pretty much the hottest thing I can possibly imagine.

I DEFINITELY identify as 100% male and am attracted to 100% males. I'll proudly claim that.

Love the last statement. Couldn't agree more.

[berlinboi]

I identify as 100% ME - I'm simply uninterested in alpha males clashing. I want men whom are 100% men THEM. That's all really.

[cam1972]

I identify as 100% ME - I'm simply uninterested in alpha males clashing. I want men whom are 100% men THEM. That's all really.

I am 100% me too. Don't want to be anything else. But you misinterpret "clashing".. It's two masculine men enjoying each other and fucking like the men they are. Not fighting.

[berlinboi]

It does nothing for me sorry - but then I'm of an unusual jungian personality type that finds it can get (not always) be a bit well `camp`. But as I say each to their own. My view of masculinity is pretty wide ranging. 

 

I admit that when I was a top I worked on deep reserves of dark stuff - it wasn't the general me at all yet it was all done in a consensual environment that bottoms loved. Afterwards I wondered where it all came from. 

 

Perhaps it's part of what I'm looking for now.

[subbytch]

I am 100% me too. Don't want to be anything else. But you misinterpret "clashing".. It's two masculine men enjoying each other and fucking like the men they are. Not fighting.

 

​I'm 100% male, have no desire to be a woman, yet love to be called a cunt / bitch / whore and treated as such....in the bedroom. (Just writing about it makes me hard.)

 

I've always been a little embarrassed about it, too. I'm pretty strong advocate for equality and, without being some Alpha caricature, wind up being in the lead and responsible on many projects. So it's so damn crazy when I think about being treated that way and how much I enjoy it when I am

 

I'd detest being treated that way all the time. I'd be insulted. I'd put a stop to it, too. 

Sexuality is crazy.

[PhoenixGeoff]

​I'm 100% male, have no desire to be a woman, yet love to be called a cunt / bitch / whore and treated as such....in the bedroom. (Just writing about it makes me hard.)

 

I've always been a little embarrassed about it, too. I'm pretty strong advocate for equality and, without being some Alpha caricature, wind up being in the lead and responsible on many projects. So it's so damn crazy when I think about being treated that way and how much I enjoy it when I am

 

I'd detest being treated that way all the time. I'd be insulted. I'd put a stop to it, too. 

Sexuality is crazy.

 

I dunno.  I do get the desire of men who take on a leadership role in society enjoying being a sub in the bedroom.  That's very common.

 

I guess what bothers me most about the bitch/cunt namecalling is the misogyny involved.  If you want to get put down while you're having sex, that's your kink.  But when, in the process of that, you end up perpetuating (however unintentionally) some rather nasty attitudes towards women, then I got a bit of a problem with that. 

 

In the same vein, I'd never call a black guy I was with a "nigger" in the bedroom, even if that was his thing.  There's just something inherently wrong with that.  To be honest, I got a bit of a problem with "faggot" too.

 

I think there are ways of giving you what you want that don't carry all of that additional freight.  There are ways of degrading you without disrespecting you, if that makes sense.

[TigerMilner]

Yeah, let me clarify my interpretation of dom vs. sub here.  Again, it's completely divorced from top vs. bottom.  Every top on this site has run into dom bottoms (less charitably known as the "pushy bottom").

 

A dom, to my way of thinking, is the person who takes charge of the scene.  This is often interpreted as meaning that the scene rotates strictly around the dom's desires, but the reality is that's only true of shitty, self-centered doms.  Good doms will seek to know their subs as well as they can, because a good dom views his control of the scene as a responsibility he has towards all of the other participants.  And he will therefore direct the scene towards the maximum long-term pleasure of everyone concerned (which isn't to say that a good dom won't push you, but he or she will know just how hard to push, when to stop, what direction to push in and how not to step over the line). 

 

Being a dom is all about creating an experience for your sub.

 

A sub, on the other hand, bears obligations towards the dom as well.  Complete candor about who he or she is, what he's done, what he's enjoyed in the past and what he hasn't; being willing to do whatever is asked (within negotiated bounds) even things that are uncomfortable; and giving the dom trust that he or she will ultimately take the scene in a healthy and enjoyable direction.

 

Being a sub is all about surrendering to the experience your dom is creating for you.

 

In a way, a D/s relationship is kind of like a mentor/mentee relationship.  And I do believe that experience is absolutely vital for a dom (whether gained under the teaching of another dom or as a sub), whereas all a good sub needs is the right attitude.

Well Sir, you can create an experience for me anytime!

[cam1972]

In the same vein, I'd never call a black guy I was with a "nigger" in the bedroom, even if that was his thing.  There's just something inherently wrong with that.  To be honest, I got a bit of a problem with "faggot" too.

I again agree. It's incredibly hypocritical. If we don't want other cultures calling us faggots, then we shouldn't use the term either. Lead by example. How are they to take us seriously if we don't practice what we preach?

[PhoenixGeoff]

Well Sir, you can create an experience for me anytime!

 

That's probably the most flattering thing I've heard in a long time!

[subbytch]

I dunno.  I do get the desire of men who take on a leadership role in society enjoying being a sub in the bedroom.  That's very common.

 

I guess what bothers me most about the bitch/cunt namecalling is the misogyny involved.  If you want to get put down while you're having sex, that's your kink.  But when, in the process of that, you end up perpetuating (however unintentionally) some rather nasty attitudes towards women, then I got a bit of a problem with that. 

 

In the same vein, I'd never call a black guy I was with a "nigger" in the bedroom, even if that was his thing.  There's just something inherently wrong with that.  To be honest, I got a bit of a problem with "faggot" too.

 

I think there are ways of giving you what you want that don't carry all of that additional freight.  There are ways of degrading you without disrespecting you, if that makes sense.

 

I disagree. The word "nigger" isn't magical. Saying it doesn't instantly add to evil in the world. There's just no evidence for that. It's a metaphor.  Symbol. Placeholder.

 

When you beat a person, keep them from school, undercut their promotions, charge them more frequently and harshly under the law, deem them inferior for an arbitrary and irrelevant reason, kill them..... that's what the metaphor, the placeholder, is referring to. It's the actual degradation of a human being, of making their life miserable, and of denying them the same freedoms that others. Of destroying them.

 

Using those words in the bedroom, between two or three people who'd otherwise never use those words against a person in the outside world, just isn't the same. It's similar to how actual African Americans can use nigger in their lives and humor and between each other and it's a becomes a metaphor for rising above, not being pushed down.

Yeah, one is somewhat playing around with how a certain metaphor is socially improper in most cases. But that's kind of the fun.

Note, I don't think I could use the word nigger in the bedroom. I just hate the word. I can relate it in some sense to your objection. But my rationale mentioned above I'd apply even to people using that word between them when they have sex. While I really couldn't use it, I don't have a problem with people who might.

Jeez, we've just gone meta....

Edited October 10, 2015 by subbytch

[PhoenixGeoff]

I disagree. The word "nigger" isn't magical. Saying it doesn't instantly add to evil in the world. There's just no evidence for that. It's a metaphor.  Symbol. Placeholder.

 

When you beat a person, keep them from school, undercut their promotions, charge them more frequently and harshly under the law, deem them inferior for an arbitrary and irrelevant reason, kill them..... that's what the metaphor, the placeholder, is referring to. It's the actual degradation of a human being, of making their life miserable, and of denying them the same freedoms that others. Of destroying them.

 

Using those words in the bedroom, between two or three people who'd otherwise never use those words against a person in the outside world, just isn't the same. It's similar to how actual African Americans can use nigger in their lives and humor and between each other and it's a becomes a metaphor for rising above, not being pushed down.

Yeah, one is somewhat playing around with how a certain metaphor is socially improper in most cases. But that's kind of the fun.

Note, I don't think I could use the word nigger in the bedroom. I just hate the word. I can relate it in some sense to your objection. But my rationale mentioned above I'd apply even to people using that word between them when they have sex. While I really couldn't use it, I don't have a problem with people who might.

Jeez, we've just gone meta....

I think the word is more than just a placeholder though.

 

For one thing, it's emotionally charged, not just for blacks, but for whites as well (thus the huge taboo against using it).  I personally don't think it's cool to fuck with people's emotions without at the very least some discussion and consent up front, just as with a heavy kink scene. 

 

Emotional abuse (which is what we're talking about here) is just as valid as physical or sexual abuse.  And so, while I'm happy to get rough with someone, I'm not going to break any bones, and while I'm happy to dominate someone, I'm not going to participate in a rape.  I'll happily get verbally aggressive with you and call you a piece of shit, but I'm not going to cross that line.

 

I view use of words like this as demeaning not just to a black partner but also to myself:   I'm essentially being asked to step into a role (as a white racist) that I vehemently disagree with.  This isn't the same thing as role-playing a cop or biker or whatever.

 

But beyond that point, I also disagree with the idea that it's only racist actions that count.  Words are powerful things.  The very act of speaking in a racist way enables those racist actions in the first place. 

 

I've actually been in situations where I've been around people who were comfortable speaking in racist terms, even who appeared to actually be unrepentently (if guardedly) racist themselves.  The frightening thing to me was watching my own thoughts and reactions, how difficult it can be to call someone on bullshit like that but even how easily one can slip into thinking along similar lines without even realizing it's happening, simply by being around people talking that way.

 

Human communication is an incredibly complicated process that allows all kinds of thoughts, ideas and feelings to move between people and be created inside their heads as a result of that communication, consciously and unconsciously.  I think it's dangerous to open yourself up that kind of thinking even if it's just happening in the bedroom.

 

Actually, strike that:  especially if it's happening inside the bedroom.  Sex is already a highly emotionally charged environment.  I can't see how introducing truly evil ideas that appeal to the basest aspects of our natures in that context can possibly be a good idea.

Edited October 12, 2015 by PhoenixGeoff