Would any Democrats care to lay out the arguments for pardon?

[nanana]

Thanks to a cool head that was not my own, I cordially invite any Democrats to make the arguments for the big man to offer a pardon. 

[nanana]

A bonus for anyone who can elucidate how this advances their most verbalized and repeated values…

[Erik62]

3 hours ago, nanana said:

Thanks to a cool head that was not my own, I cordially invite any Democrats to make the arguments for the big man to offer a pardon. 

Devils 👿👿Advocate, because Trump did it for his, some relation??? & others not entitled. He also made a mockery of the justice system with his own phenagling of justice to keep himself out of prison. 

    In a perfect world & WHAT, I THINK IS JUSTICE, both Trump, Hunter, the January 06 idiots / thugs & TRAITORS should ALL BE in prison, as should significant others of Trumps entourage & Biden, himself, should be under deep investigation.

    NO ONE is ABOVE the LAW!!! 

[Moose143]

lol and he only ran to pardon himself you watch. Trumps pardons Michael Flynn Russian interference with the 2016 election. Paul Manafort financial fraud. Roger Stone perjury. Charles Kushner (Jared’s dad) fraud now Trumps nominated to be the us ambassador to France.last but not least Steve Bannon for his involvement in the border wall fundraising. Theses men were all part of his first administration. 

[Shotsfired]

Was it the right choice? No.

But Biden felt guilty because Hunter was  used as a political pawn and probably wouldn't have been investigated nor arrested if his father wasn't President.  I would feel like that if I were Biden.

But he did the crime and should of served his sentence 

Biden is leaving public life. He knew he wasn't a popular President with no legacy to preserve, so he decided fuck it and pardoned his son. He took off the President's hat and put on his Dad hat.  Dad wanted to spend the very little time he has left with his son.  

Biden has had a lot of loss in his life.  He lost a wife and daughter to a car wreck,, and his other son to cancer. He didn't want to lose Hunter.

Family is family. I would kill to protect mine.

And in a post election, post truth, post respect of our laws who really gives a shit.

All bets are off.

A lot of don't care any more, because its a done deal. None of our institutions will be left,  health care will be cut and a lot of chronically ill people will die; including HIV+ people and U=U will not happen as much, so be prepared to use condoms again.

Who cares about marriage? I will be happy not to end up in a Christian Nationalist  Concentratiin Camp.

Trump won't leave office till he dies. He's said that much.

The GOP cherry picks what rules they will follow.  Dems let them. 

Laws don't matter anymore.  At least for the elite.

Everyone can get pegged. 

The world is flat.

Windmills kill birds 

Democrats control the weather.

 

Edited December 3 by Shotsfired
Spelling

[BlackDude]

How was this politically motivated? From my understanding these prosecutions started while Biden was vice president. This is actually pretty funny coming from the author of the 94 crime bill. But I guess gun toting and cocaine smoking only get you life if you’re ever certain demographic in Biden’s eyes. Maybe that’s something his mentors Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond taught him?
 

Situational ethics and moral relativism. 

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, BlackDude said:

How was this politically motivated? From my understanding these prosecutions started while Biden was vice president. This is actually pretty funny coming from the author of the 94 crime bill. But I guess gun toting and cocaine smoking only get you life if you’re ever certain demographic in Biden’s eyes. Maybe that’s something his mentors Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond taught him?
 

Situational ethics and moral relativism. 

Your understanding is incorrect.

The *actions* Hunter Biden took (with respect to paying his taxes late, and purchasing a gun when he legally wasn't allowed to) may have occurred before Joe Biden became president. That said, the investigation into his taxes did not begin until 2018, well into the Trump administration, and there is some evidence (and much suspicion) that Trump's DOJ opened that investigation under pressure from the president's team, to harm Joe Biden politically. Note that this began around the same time that Trump began pressuring Ukraine to announce a sham investigation into the Bidens for the purpose of hurting Biden's chances in the 2020 election, pressure for which he was later impeached. It's important to note that by the time the investigation began, Biden had already paid the late taxes AND the associated penalties, circumstances which normally result it (at most) misdemeanor charges with a non-custodial sentence.

The gun charge is one for which federal prosecution is almost never used absent some other circumstance, such as the gun being used in commission of another crime. Substance abusers buy guns every day, signing the form declaring that they are not, in fact, users of illegal drugs, and no charges are ever brought simply for that false statement.

Your implication that he was "gun toting" and "cocaine smoking" (while NEITHER was charged in the indictment) is a smear tactic worthy of the racists you supposedly abhor. 

All that said, the point is that if his name had been Hunter Jones, these cases would have been resolved without a special counsel, without the millions and millions of dollars spent investigating them, and we'd have never read the first word about them unless we're law nerds reading every plea bargain in every federal court. But his name is Hunter Biden, and as such, the GOP pushed all sorts of norms out the window in their zeal to "get" something on the Bidens, all because they can't defend the lifetime of criminality their own candidate (and now president-elect) has engaged in.

And given that Trump's people have rather LOUDLY declared their intent to continue pursuing charges against Biden, no matter how trumped-up those charges are, Joe Biden took a step to put an end to that kind of bullshit. Is it ideal? No. But not a single fucking Trumpanzee has ANY moral high ground to stand on demanding that Biden be "ideal". JFC, Ivanka Trump's father-in-law (while under investigation for tax fraud) set his whistle-blowing brother up with a prostitute to then out the brother to his wife as a philanderer, in the hopes of shutting him up. Kushner, the father-in-law, did a significant stint in federal prison for that. Trump pardoned him, and has just named him as US Ambassador to France.

So spare me your crocodile tears for Biden's actions. Maybe if Republicans weren't such shitty people, backing such a shitty presidential candidate, Democrats could do a better job of living up to the ideals that they at least try to honor. 

[nullebor]

I fear to say that from a European perspective the USA is descending into the depths of banana-republicanism irrespective of the governing party.

[gimpsub69]

4 hours ago, Shotsfired said:

Was it the right choice? No.

But Biden felt guilty because Hunter was  used as a political pawn and probably wouldn't have been investigated nor arrested if his father wasn't President.  I would feel like that if I were Biden.

But he did the crime and should of served his sentence 

Biden is leaving public life. He knew he wasn't a popular President with no legacy to preserve, so he decided fuck it and pardoned his son. He took off the President's hat and put on his Dad hat.  Dad wanted to spend the very little time he has left with his son.  

Biden has had a lot of loss in his life.  He lost a wife and daughter to a car wreck,, and his other son to cancer. He didn't want to lose Hunter.

Family is family. I would kill to protect mine.

And in a post election, post truth, post respect of our laws who really gives a shit.

All bets are off.

A lot of don't care any more, because its a done deal. None of our institutions will be left,  health care will be cut and a lot of chronically ill people will die; including HIV+ people and U=U will not happen as much, so be prepared to use condoms again.

Who cares about marriage? I will be happy not to end up in a Christian Nationalist  Concentratiin Camp.

Trump won't leave office till he dies. He's said that much.

The GOP cherry picks what rules they will follow.  Dems let them. 

Laws don't matter anymore.  At least for the elite.

Everyone can get pegged. 

The world is flat.

Windmills kill birds 

Democrats control the weather.

 

Hunter actually told on himself in his memoir, talked about being high on crack cocaine when he bought the gun. Had he not done that the gun charges wouldn't of happened. But the blanket pardon for Hunter was actually protecting Joe. Since it covers 14-24 Hunter can't be prosecuted so there will be no investigation. And Biden will have partial immunity from official acts while in office on January 20th. 

Biden falsely accused the truck driver of being drunk repeatedly in the case of the first accident. And he called Hunter a decent man. Hunter got his sister in law hooked on crack cocaine and started fucking her before Beau's body was cold. Decent men don't do shit like that. 

Biden also had 51 intelligence officers knowingly lie about Hunter's laptop being Russian disinformation and nothing has happened to them. And I'm still waiting for the gay concentration camps from Trump's first term 

[gimpsub69]

54 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

Your understanding is incorrect.

The *actions* Hunter Biden took (with respect to paying his taxes late, and purchasing a gun when he legally wasn't allowed to) may have occurred before Joe Biden became president. That said, the investigation into his taxes did not begin until 2018, well into the Trump administration, and there is some evidence (and much suspicion) that Trump's DOJ opened that investigation under pressure from the president's team, to harm Joe Biden politically. Note that this began around the same time that Trump began pressuring Ukraine to announce a sham investigation into the Bidens for the purpose of hurting Biden's chances in the 2020 election, pressure for which he was later impeached. It's important to note that by the time the investigation began, Biden had already paid the late taxes AND the associated penalties, circumstances which normally result it (at most) misdemeanor charges with a non-custodial sentence.

The gun charge is one for which federal prosecution is almost never used absent some other circumstance, such as the gun being used in commission of another crime. Substance abusers buy guns every day, signing the form declaring that they are not, in fact, users of illegal drugs, and no charges are ever brought simply for that false statement.

Your implication that he was "gun toting" and "cocaine smoking" (while NEITHER was charged in the indictment) is a smear tactic worthy of the racists you supposedly abhor. 

All that said, the point is that if his name had been Hunter Jones, these cases would have been resolved without a special counsel, without the millions and millions of dollars spent investigating them, and we'd have never read the first word about them unless we're law nerds reading every plea bargain in every federal court. But his name is Hunter Biden, and as such, the GOP pushed all sorts of norms out the window in their zeal to "get" something on the Bidens, all because they can't defend the lifetime of criminality their own candidate (and now president-elect) has engaged in.

And given that Trump's people have rather LOUDLY declared their intent to continue pursuing charges against Biden, no matter how trumped-up those charges are, Joe Biden took a step to put an end to that kind of bullshit. Is it ideal? No. But not a single fucking Trumpanzee has ANY moral high ground to stand on demanding that Biden be "ideal". JFC, Ivanka Trump's father-in-law (while under investigation for tax fraud) set his whistle-blowing brother up with a prostitute to then out the brother to his wife as a philanderer, in the hopes of shutting him up. Kushner, the father-in-law, did a significant stint in federal prison for that. Trump pardoned him, and has just named him as US Ambassador to France.

So spare me your crocodile tears for Biden's actions. Maybe if Republicans weren't such shitty people, backing such a shitty presidential candidate, Democrats could do a better job of living up to the ideals that they at least try to honor. 

Biden had 51 intelligence officers knowingly lie about Hunter's laptop being Russian disinformation and the blanket pardon he gave Hunter dates from 2014-2024. Hunter was working in Ukraine in 14, the pardon protects Joe. Because he's about to have partial immunity from official acts while in office per SCOTUS ruling. 

You are right that only a handful of people have been convicted of lying on form 4473, but it was Hunter's dumbass that admitted his guilt in his memoir. 

[verslut]

Now that he's been pardoned, I'm just glad I won't have to see Hunter Biden naked ever again. No one cares about Hunter Biden's penis more than conservative, Christian Republicans.

[BlackDude]

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Your understanding is incorrect.

The *actions* Hunter Biden took (with respect to paying his taxes late, and purchasing a gun when he legally wasn't allowed to) may have occurred before Joe Biden became president. That said, the investigation into his taxes did not begin until 2018, well into the Trump administration, and there is some evidence (and much suspicion) that Trump's DOJ opened that investigation under pressure from the president's team, to harm Joe Biden politically. Note that this began around the same time that Trump began pressuring Ukraine to announce a sham investigation into the Bidens for the purpose of hurting Biden's chances in the 2020 election, pressure for which he was later impeached. It's important to note that by the time the investigation began, Biden had already paid the late taxes AND the associated penalties, circumstances which normally result it (at most) misdemeanor charges with a non-custodial sentence.

The gun charge is one for which federal prosecution is almost never used absent some other circumstance, such as the gun being used in commission of another crime. Substance abusers buy guns every day, signing the form declaring that they are not, in fact, users of illegal drugs, and no charges are ever brought simply for that false statement.

Your implication that he was "gun toting" and "cocaine smoking" (while NEITHER was charged in the indictment) is a smear tactic worthy of the racists you supposedly abhor. 

All that said, the point is that if his name had been Hunter Jones, these cases would have been resolved without a special counsel, without the millions and millions of dollars spent investigating them, and we'd have never read the first word about them unless we're law nerds reading every plea bargain in every federal court. But his name is Hunter Biden, and as such, the GOP pushed all sorts of norms out the window in their zeal to "get" something on the Bidens, all because they can't defend the lifetime of criminality their own candidate (and now president-elect) has engaged in.

And given that Trump's people have rather LOUDLY declared their intent to continue pursuing charges against Biden, no matter how trumped-up those charges are, Joe Biden took a step to put an end to that kind of bullshit. Is it ideal? No. But not a single fucking Trumpanzee has ANY moral high ground to stand on demanding that Biden be "ideal". JFC, Ivanka Trump's father-in-law (while under investigation for tax fraud) set his whistle-blowing brother up with a prostitute to then out the brother to his wife as a philanderer, in the hopes of shutting him up. Kushner, the father-in-law, did a significant stint in federal prison for that. Trump pardoned him, and has just named him as US Ambassador to France.

So spare me your crocodile tears for Biden's actions. Maybe if Republicans weren't such shitty people, backing such a shitty presidential candidate, Democrats could do a better job of living up to the ideals that they at least try to honor. 

So it looks like his actions occurred while Biden was vice president, as I originally stated. Thank you for the clarification.

And wasn’t he kicked out of the navy for drug use? And he was charged for the gun, and convicted, right? So I don’t think that’s a smear tactic. It’s a fact.

Had his name been Hunter Jones from Detroit, Chicago, or Baltimore, he would have been locked up, and the key would have been thrown away. 

Textbook case of ”rules for thou, but not for thee!”

Edited December 3 by BlackDude

[SFCumdog]

It's not like it's the first time this ever happened. Poppy Bush pardoned son Neil. It seems there is always a Republican precedent for everything...

[BootmanLA]

On 12/3/2024 at 2:58 PM, BlackDude said:

So it looks like his actions occurred while Biden was vice president, as I originally stated. Thank you for the clarification.

And wasn’t he kicked out of the navy for drug use? And he was charged for the gun, and convicted, right? So I don’t think that’s a smear tactic. It’s a fact.

Had his name been Hunter Jones from Detroit, Chicago, or Baltimore, he would have been locked up, and the key would have been thrown away. 

Textbook case of ”rules for thou, but not for thee!”

Partly correct. He was removed from the Navy RESERVE, not active duty military, for a positive drug test. That, however, would not have resulted being locked up and the key thrown away, even if his name was D'Quintal Jones, because failing a drug test is not, by itself, a crime at all. It can be a parole or probation violation, or a violation of a court order if one is ordered, but not because your employer tested you and discharged you because of the test.

Nor was he was not charged "for the gun". He was charged with lying on a gun purchase application. The wording on the form is itself problematic - it asks "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?" How far back does "are you an unlawful user of" go? If someone tried pot at 15 and is trying to buy a gun at age 30, is he "an unlawful user" at the present time? If he last used five years ago? A year ago? Last month? Last week? What if that recent time was the only time he's ever done it?

That wording alone should disqualify the question as invalid because it's open to interpretation and there's no objective standard for measurement of whether the person is truthfully answering, unless he's literally under the influence at the moment he filled out the form.

And under the Bruen decision, from a few years back, any government restriction on the purchase, ownership, or possession of a firearm must have a historical analogue dating to the time of the drafting of the Second Amendment. Were there, in fact, any laws restricting people who used drugs - to the extent there were any drugs in these categories - from owning firearms? I doubt it seriously.

If you can point to any large number of people being convicted of lying on this form, much less serving any significant amount of jail time, I might concede you have a point. But the vast majority of federal firearms charges aren't for lying on this kind of form. They're for stealing guns. Or for possession of one while a felon. And Biden wasn't even charged with illegally possessing the gun - just with lying on the form. Apples and oranges.

So no, if he was Hunter Jones from any of those cities, he wouldn't be locked up. He wouldn't have been charged, period, under these facts.

[BootmanLA]

22 hours ago, SFCumdog said:

It's not like it's the first time this ever happened. Poppy Bush pardoned son Neil. It seems there is always a Republican precedent for everything...

This statement is false. There is no record of a pardon for Neil Bush, nor was Neil ever charged with a federal crime (perhaps he should have been, but that's another story).

Esquire has retracted the story in which it made this allegation - something other news outlets picked up and covered, also without doing their own research.