What is the answer/s?

[tallslenderguy]

i appreciate our political discussions on SD... though it seems we've lost some participants over the past year.  For me, one of the things that makes this discussion challenging is how we often get divided into major groups (e.g. "republican" or "democrat," "conservative," or "liberal," each with endless sub groups).  i wonder though if we get tied up fighting to save  our individual tree, while the forest burns down?  

Not a perfect analogy,  but this discussion raises that question in me. 

 

 

[hntnhole]

Thanks, tallslenderguy.  

It's not easy to see how things will wash out, and both Elias and Jong Fast are worth considering.  Frankly, it is getting worse, and by the day.  

Where do we run away to, I wonder ..... Minneapolis is out of the running these days; that's for sure 😬 

I think the best course of action is to simply remain in place, and keep fighting for what we believe in.  

Edited Thursday at 08:13 PM by hntnhole

[NWUSHorny]

We have yet another shooting here in Portland this afternoon.

[tobetrained]

On 1/8/2026 at 11:11 AM, tallslenderguy said:

i appreciate our political discussions on SD

pardon, what's SD? I only know that as South Dakota...and fairly sure it's not what you mean. 😀

In your premise, I think where we gotten lost is in using political outlook as a form of identity. It's not.

Take the broader community of this site in relation to WeHo pride flag a decade+ ago
[think before following links] https://wehoonline.com/weho-council-defers-manager-city-hall-flags-rainbow-flag-may-come/

A very liberal/progressive group argued against this, to preserve their culture where WeHo is a "gay city" (I'm simplifying). That preservation attempt, to conserve, is conservatism. It's no different than what Christians or other religious groups do...or others under any label.

But more broadly, and excluding identity, the concepts are as old as philosophical thought. In that sense, they're very important.

• Do you believe in the individual, or
• Do you believe in the collective

The problem is both above require principled responses and behavior. Good luck on that.

I've said this elsewhere: east Asian philosophies (e.g., Confucianism) are predicated on the individual. Even though the Greek created democracy (as we know it), philosophers of the day hated it, read: Plato's The Republic where he describes his Ideal State. 

[tallslenderguy]

20 minutes ago, tobetrained said:

pardon, what's SD? I only know that as South Dakota...and fairly sure it's not what you mean. 😀

 

lol, sorry, that's another site... BZ. 

[tallslenderguy]

28 minutes ago, tobetrained said:

 

But more broadly, and excluding identity, the concepts are as old as philosophical thought. In that sense, they're very important.

• Do you believe in the individual, or
• Do you believe in the collective

The problem is both above require principled responses and behavior. Good luck on that.

 

i may be missing your point? It seems to me that "belief" is less of a factor than reality?  I.e., it seems to me that people are both individual and part of a collective and that the principle challenges come from trying to... balance? the two.  

[tobetrained]

2 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

i may be missing your point? It seems to me that "belief" is less of a factor than reality?  I.e., it seems to me that people are both individual and part of a collective and that the principle challenges come from trying to... balance? the two.  

I think that's just a bad word choice on my part. But not sure best. "belief," "think more important," "preference." That sort of thing.

And, yes, to a degree it's about balance in how to do that.

Like China, culture norms are based on a conservative philosophy but its political structure, Communism, is based on the collective.

Or Europe, most countries have socialistic/collective tendencies but seethe at the idea of losing their individual (country) status.

The "boring" topic here would be healthcare. We do the balance, the collective via insurance (some go for co-opts instead) while allowing private market to drive innovation.

There have been many attempts to drive this -- starting in ancient Greece. To translate a method, the analogy would be -- an electoral college where random (or almost random) members of across states would be grouped in 700k+ people instead of the geographic allocation now based on state-level district appropriation. But it makes more sense for a population in a single city-state.

[tobetrained]

Sorry, the last part of last message (Greece) was method but no rationale.

The point of the mixing was to force people from different locations, parties, classes, etc into new groups...to then force communication and conversation.