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Thank you for sharing this very interesting study. China is, sadly, not a bastion of free thought and has not gone down the path of freedom both political and social, even though it has strived to create greater economic freedoms for its people. Gay people in present day communist China face more oppression than their forefathers would have under the Emperors in the 2nd century before Christ! Queer people or Eunuch as they are referred to in modern English had more freedom and opportunities to be themselves in ancient China, unlike the present day government which cracks down on "sissy men" — e.g. the dictate by President XI against "effeminate behaviours" on Chinese state run TV. Queer chinese men also called eunuchs where part of the royal family and elite class including the imperial bureaucracy and often where the most powerful group in traditional Chinese society. I don't believe change in China is going to happens sans TikTok. Change in Chinese attitudes both social and governmental are more likely to come through freeer exchange of ideas through apps like TikTok rather than without it. The study does has some major pitfalls. It is not peer reviewed, and just proves that there are fake accounts on TikTok, who push the Communist party world view. The Study seems to have a strange accusation against TikTok in page 21, "Those who use TikTok are more likely than Instagram and Youtube, to see China as a travel destination". Looks like the authors of the study seem to think that it is morally wrong to see China as a destination worthy of Travel presumably because its 4000 or more years of civilization is not protestant christian, and the Chinese people are not considered "white" - their civilization is not worth a trip. Was there a study to see how pro US or UK governmental views are pushed forward by apps such as Youtube or Instagram, governmental views which serve the industrial-military complex of the US establishment rather than the average American citizen or the common good of people around the world?

Is there really any crediable and substantial evidence that TikTok is actually sharing data with the Chinese government, since its main servers are located in the US and Singapore?

Does the ban on the social media app, TikTok violate traditional U.S. and Western understandings and commitment to free speech and capitalism?

The process has already begun, in Idaho, two days ago. Republican Rep. Heather Scott has proposed a resolution to reject the Supreme Court same-sex marriage decision, and the proposal was moved forward by the Committee and will come up for a public hearing. If passed by the Idaho legislature it goes to the Supreme Court, where it doe not have any legal weight but does carry symbolic weight. [think before following links] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/idaho-lawmakers-move-to-restore-natural-definition-of-marriage-bring-back-same-sex-ban/ar-AA1x7Nio

Regan was truly a monster. There is an interesting excerpt from the book, The Gay Metropolis: The Landmark History of Gay Life in America by Charles Kaiser, on Slate., on how he actually brought about the gay holocaust that AIDs was back in the 80s and 90s. [think before following links] https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/03/the-reagans-surrounded-by-discreet-gays-still-did-little-to-help-with-aids.html

Apologies for the late reply; I ,unfortunately, did not see the responses. You have a right to a view, and be pedantic, but I am going to disagree with your view. The oldest mosque in Indonesia is from the 15th century and Malaysia from the 17th century. These nations where colonies of India, before the Anglo Saxon empire started the policy of Indian removal and the Hindu/Indian populations where whipped out of these countries and the native Malaysians and Indonesia given a Muslim identity. While Arabs and Indian Muslims traders did exist in these countries from the 900 onwards, the locals had a tolerant attitude towards all religions and practiced Buddhism, Hinduism, paganism and the new Islamic religion equally and never really converted until the British ran their missionary anti pagan/Hindu campaigns and divided the world into idol worshippers and worshippers of the True God-monotheistic, non idolatrous etc. This is very evidenced from the way in which these countries practice their true religion, and exist. For eg, when the Asian Finance crisis hit East Asia in 1997, the Indonesians immediately fell back to their "ancient gods" and issued a currency note with the elephant headed Hindu god Ganesh's photography to try to appease their ancestral pagan gods. The half elephant, half human god is considered as the god who removes obstacles and the Indonesians had no qualms in praying to their ancestral gods to pull their country out of a crisis. The bank of Indonesia issued a currency note with the pictue of the hindu god ganesha in 1998 the Indonesia leader Ki Hajar Dewantara on the highest currency note of 2000 Indonesian dollars. [think before following links] https://www.boomlive.in/fact-check/economy/indonesia-20000-note-with-ganesh-ganpati-muslim-country-rbi-19711 [think before following links] https://en.numista.com/catalogue/note205416.html The Indonesians did not think that their Islamic Arabic brothers or the Islamic God was going to come to their rescue but the Indian/Asian pagan gods. Doesn't sound or look very Islamic to me!

While it is true that the Quoran, like most Holy Books including Toarh of the Jews, Bible of the Christians and Vedic traditions of the Hindus condemns homosexuality, the fact is these religions evolve as well. For eg, the restrictive tribal religion of the Judaic God who only cared about Isrealities, gave rise to a much more tolerant and Universal god of the Christians. The sacrifice loving Vedic religion of which was more tribal and fierce gave rise to a more philosophical and Vegetarian modern Hinduism. The point I am making is all religions evolve. I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Islam and the countries that it has spread to have been anti-LGBTQ. During the Islamic rule over most of west and south Asia, gay culture flourished. In India; the local language in India referred to homosexuality as a hobby of the Muslim rulers( Mughals) and Transexual people particularly thrived. Poems from Persian and part of Iraq during the Mughal times, do openly talk of men loving boys. Even today, crimes against transexual hatred, the way it occurs in the West, is fairly unknown in the Muslim world and often the state will recommend and pay for transexual surgery, for eg in Iran. However, the same freedom is not given to gay people, and the status of gay people has worsened since colonial times when a lot of colonized countries adopted the Anglo-Saxon disdain for homosexuality and incorporated Anglican legal mores into their own code of laws. I unfortunately am not a scholar of Islam and my understanding of it is limited. However, I do know there is a distinction between the Sayings of the prophet vs the Main Book which is the canonical book, and that the anti-gay passages are in the Sayings rather than the canonical book. Interestingly, u mention Islam and Malaysia, two countries that had been Indian for centuries, the abandoned Hindu temples and Buddhist monasteries along with various other factors proving it; which converted to Islam roughly during colonial times. The British not only went and conquered countries, they often changed the religion of the colonies so as to wipe off the proof and influence of the previous colonial power under the rubrics of a war against paganism/heathen/idol worshiping religion, even though the real reason was politics and loot. The anti-gay laws that we now see in Malaysia and Indonesia are partly a result of that as most of Malaysian and Indonesian Islam tends to be like Indian Islam: more moderate. Also, both Malay and Indonesian Islam have debates within their country over other related issues, as well, such as the place of their national heritage including Arabic clothes vs their own national clothes and culture, within Islam. Thus the debate within Islam is not just about LGBTQ rights, but also about other important issues such as national culture, practices, etc, and proves that sometimes there are tough questions to be answered within Islam and it is capable of having that debate.

I noticed a curious phenomenon in a downtown church that I started attending. Some gay men showed up at Mass and a lot of them are looking to hook up. I only started attending the church a few months ago and am unsure how long this phenomenon has existed. Our city does not have a gay space in the downtown/centretown area as the old Sauna and gay bar shut down roughly before CoVID. Interestingly, even an older church associated with the church I attend shut its doors last decade and is now a performing arts center. It makes sense to me that gay men would use a local church as a gay-social center since gay men have contributed for generations to the Church in terms of finances but also other resources. There is a certain old-school charm to see gay men eager to cruise/meet other gay men in the real world. For centuries, christian men have courted/met their wives in a church, and it's only fair that gays be allowed such an opportunity as well. I am wondering, has anyone else observed such a phenomenon in their city where in the absence of gay spaces in the city the local church has emerged as a meet/hook-up spot for gays?

The United States is squatting on Indian lands, and is thus a major freeloader as well. Ever thought of paying the native American for his stolen lands and gold? I believe Kamla Harris would make a great president as she embodies ALL of America: She has a black father, an Indian mother, and a Jewish husband and she chose an old(er) white man to be her vice president! Many intelligent and accomplished white women, including Liz Chaney, Melinda Gates etc, have supported her, and the most influential black woman in America, Oprah Winfrey has given her approval as well. Even though I am not from the US, as a person of color in Canada, I can see how much she truly loves America and does not discriminate between black and white. Far from being an airhead, she is a very accomplished and intelligent professional woman. As far as the Orange Man is concerned, Donald Trump needs to be put in an orange jumpsuit and sent right away to Jail. He will blend in with the rapists and thieves there.

In the US and rest of the Anglo world up until the 1912 Portland Vice Scandal, oral sex was not penalized nor considered fellatio or covered under oral sex. The legislature of Portland changed this in 1913 to broaden the definition of sexual perversion and included oral sex under it. It is almost eerie but I do believe that history has a way of impacting a city and its culture.

I am wondering if the fear of anal sex and even oral sex in Portland has got something to do with the history of anti gay laws in that state. I was just doing some research and came across the Portland Vice Scandal, and how sodomy (that could get u into legal trouble, was interestingly defined as anal sex but not oral sex in the US at that time, but in Portland it was held that even oral sex was a crime against nature in the judgements of the Vice Scandal case (Peter Boarg, Same-sex affairs : constructing and controlling homosexuality in the Pacific Northwest). I personally think a city's particular anti gay history has a deep bearing on the city's gay community. I have seen that in the city that I live in, for e.g,: A deeply closeted community in spite of being at least in law one of North America's most progressive country.

What can I say: I suspect, the guys on the beach read my post, and turned on the groove 🙂, Or, the fact that Mr. Owner/Opinion did not show up let the boys try something different than what Mr. Opinion thought should be happening on the beach. Sounds like u and the guys on the beach had a party. woo-hoo! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Honestly, gay men just holding a cuddling party sounds so lame and ridiculous like Grindr without GPS, a French party without wine, or Indian food without spices and flavor etc. Interesting to note that even a 'cuddling party' is not without its problems. Monkeypox is indeed a serious issue we are facing and gay men who think cuddling is safer than sex - i find the whole concept annoying and slightly homophobic - will think again. Portland is, apparently, a big religiously unaffiliated hub, according to this news article¹, and make up double the size of white evangelicals; which explains the cuddling parties, IMO: people who can't make up their mind if they are OK with being gay or not. A sex party with actual fucking would mean they are gay, while cuddling is unaffiliated and somewhere in the mid of things 🙂 . ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ ¹ [think before following links] https://www.oregonlive.com/faith/2015/03/portland_unaffiliated.html#:~:text=The Portland metro area is,or no religion in particular.&text=Surprise%2C surprise%3A statistics show Portland,area in the United States.

It could be that the guys there are looking for a relationship, rather than a quick hookup. It is quite possible, that you are rather handsome and the people there want you for something long-term. There are other reasons why someone could be attracting relationship type guys. For e.g. u might look well/better off than them and many guys while choosing mates do prefer someone who is well off, as the logic is you will be able to afford a relationship in the long run. However, it could also be that it really has something to do with the local conditions: gays having gone to conversion therapy and avoiding actual homosexual sex etc. Some of such groups really teach gay men, to hug, cuddle and get 'manly affirmation' I have been observing the cities, Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal, for a long time and can tell u this out of personal experience. The difference in the number of sex parties and consequently publicly visible/available sex in these cities is true for at least the past 5 years that I began noticing it.

Absolutely, and I believe I did state that in my first paragraph, if you read it.

This warrants an investigation. I am going to try to go doing some digging dicking this weekend and find out more about Portland - Cascadia's/Pacific North West's gay scene. I do know of something similar here in Canada, where some cities seem to never have sex while others are knee dick deep into homo-Sexuality. For e.g., if you go look up bbrt's sex parties info data and compare three cities, here in Canada: Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa; the differences will stun you. Ottawa probably hasn't had a sex party in the last 5 years with more than 5 confirmed attendees, whereas Toronto and Montreal usually have at least 5 sex parties every month if not every other week with lots of people attending. Why is there such a huge difference in sexual behavior (at least publicly) between the three cities is a very interesting question. Ottawa is a capital city with a history of anti LGBTQ actions by the federal government including anti gay purges and the "Fruit machine" Projected created under the RCMP (Canadian police) to identify homosexuals. Most people are officially liberal & pro gay even though they seem to take great pains to hide their own homosexual relations, identify etc. Toronto and Montreal on the other hand are huge "immigrant magnet" cities: of every greedy bugger² who showed up in Canada in the last 50 years approx. 40% went to Toronto or Montreal¹, and thus by their very nature have an inbuilt openness. @NWUSHorny Are there any other cities in the US that are equally uptight and inhibited, or at least come close? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ¹ As was the trend over the past 50 years, Toronto (29.5%), Montréal (12.2%) and Vancouver (11.7%) continued to welcome the most recent immigrants in 2021.| [think before following links] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/dq221026a-eng.htm ² Trigger Alert: Bugger or buggar can at times be considered as a mild swear word. In the United Kingdom the term has been used commonly to imply dissatisfaction, refer to someone or something whose behaviour is in some way inconvenient or perhaps as an expression of surprise. In the United States, particularly in the Midwest and South, it is an inoffensive slang term meaning "small animal". The term is used in the vernacular of British English, Australian English, New Zealand English, South African English, Hawaiian Pidgin, Indian English, Pakistani English, Canadian English, Caribbean English, Malaysian English and in Sri Lankan English.| [think before following links] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugger I thought of giving an explanation, simply because I realized on second readings, the phrase could be misunderstood in North American or U.S. English. 🙂

Sounds like a very entitled person to me. Who are "we": he and his friends, or the people who "own" the nude beach or the city that owns the nude beach. Some gay men, especially those who live in isolated communities, are very aggressive in their preferences and think it is is their duty to inform you of it. Sounds like a nasty experience and I am sorry you had to go through it. From my own personal experience, I can tell you as a south Asian guy in a north American city, that is not very cosmopolitan and fairly closeted, many people feel it is their duty to be make me feel or sometimes outrightly tell me, I don't belong in a gay bathhouse or bar because I am an immigrant/Indian etc. Such unpleasant experiences reminded me that even gay people can be very small minded and bullying/bigoted etc. The fear of monkeypox and HIV AIDS is still very real in many in the gay community, and understandably, since these along with being sexual issues are 'health issues', a topic that often makes many people nervous and uncomfortable. The no action (fucking) and not touch all stem from the potential dangers these disease pose to gay men.

Every other day, lately, almost daily! I would prefer less prefect looking and more realistic porn with stories and plots, as I am not the 'bam bam, thank you mam man' kind of guy. There are some porn flicks with some decent plots but it really is a hit and miss. I would like to read more porn but hardly find very exciting things which are rooted in the plot.

If your country has a morality police they likely already have a list of suspected homosexuals in their country, so the GPS on the Grindr app in Paris is hardly going to get them trapped. Most gay guys in countries where being gay is illegal, still try to meet up and create gay spaces even if the police could show up anytime and arrest them; simply because human beings are humans, and the human spirit to experience life is far greater than any conservative's safety net. Even in the West: as confirmed by the men here on our site, gay men choose to bareback rather than use condoms even if that is the safer thing to do simply because the human spirit wants to be free; and no it's not stupidity, its called wanting something more free. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The problem is not the GPS on Grindr but the fact that Grindr shares/sells data to third party companies, who of course can pass it on to criminal people/the morality police, and who often use it to harass/harm gay men as some recent lawsuits against Grindr in the US and UK indicate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If being gay only means gay men and perhaps gay women, then yes the West is definitely more safe for gay men and perhaps gay women as well. However the West is a nightmare for Trans people - If you consider them as "gay/LGBTQ", whereas violence against Trans people in the Muslim world/middle East is unheard of. In Iran the State encourages even gay men to become Transexual and pays for gender reassignment surgery as Trans sex is not seen as anti-Islamic. So, again words can mean different things and what might be true for one culture, isnt necessarily the case elsewhere.

When outing people risk their lives providers IMO should accentuate services that will protect their person and property. Thus, if anyone is affected by Outing, the focus should be on increasing alternate services like filling for asylum in a safe country, some kind of police/security protection, awareness about risk reduction by limiting the amount of personal information one shares online(torso pic instead of face pic) etc., instead of reducing certain services to them which would make them feel like its not safe to be gay. If you live in a difficult neighborhood/community, one way to protect the gays is shut down the gay bar but there are alternative and better approaches as well including teaching gay patrons to look out for trouble, increasing police protection of the bar and addressing the difficult question of why homophobia exists in that community/neighborhood. Since Grindr operates all over the world it has a moral duty to protect and promote gay interests!

Many gay men actually have been put to death for having gay sex, so it is a hill with a history....and worth thinking about; the principles behind the issue I raised are worth fighting for. People in the United States and the West are enjoying the fruits of freedom that Mahatma Gandhi and other Indians fought for: to not be ruled by WASP people and principles and sadly not a whole lot of them are aware of it. Gay men in the white christian West can now have sex simply because of the struggle of people from the colonized world. When Gay men from around the world esp. those from the former colonies gather at the Olympics hoping to have a chance of freedom from oppressive laws in their home countries which where put in there by the white imperial Master to being, Grindr has made it more difficult for them to be free. Imagine what it would be like if you came from a Middle Eastern country like Quarter and where hoping to have some freedom from the Morality Police of your country, only to find that GPS has been turned off where are u; it does not inspire a whole lot of confidence in you that the West is a safe place to be gay! A lot of brave gay men before us have actually been killed on that hill, simply for choosing to be gay — choosing to have gay sex instead of following the prescribed path of heterosexual marriage and children having gay sex, and I always tend to remember that.

These, my friend, are Indian lands! and we are not moving anywhere...you obviously are a very opinionated person who considers yourself the last word on style and usage. I have no desire to lead or mislead, just inform; you of course are free to accept it or not.

I am happy to let u know, that your suspicions are unfounded and I am not French. I am actually Indian, a real Indian i.e. from the country of India, and not what you refer to as "Indian" in U.S. English. Unfortunately even though English is better than classical languages in terms of exactness, English still suffers from the drawbacks of natural language in that one word or phrase can have many meanings . You are quite right: In the U.S and Anglosphere, choosing to be gay usually refers to the question of wether one is born gay or choose to be gay (nature vs nurture). and gay rights activists tend to base their arguments and demands for acceptance and rights under the banner of "Born this way". Since these societies generally place the Individual above society, the Individual who accepts his "true self" i.e. his nature is celebrated as being authentic and a hero, and this approach works well for the gay activists in anglo societies. However, In Eurasia, given the preeminence of religion, such a individual focused approach has limited traction. Even if someone is born gay, social conservatives argued that one could be born a serial cheater, a pervert, etc. and thus the natural argument , born this way, does not have as much saliency as in Anglo American culture and society which celebrates individualism whereas Eurasia tends to give importance to Church and society. In Eurasian cultures, the Individual who often does break societal and religious expectations - such as marrying outside of ones religion : a jew or a gypsy, or social class i.e. nobility or peasant, rich or poor , is often celebrated as the hero in such cultures and 'gay as choice', usually has a different meaning and context than the US. So while 'choosing to be gay' might sound like a slur in US English, it really is a compliment in the Eurasia: the Hero choose to marry his sweetheart/love even though society disapproves. Hope this gives you some background and context of how "choosing to be gay" could mean different things in different part of the world. While in the US, it has a negative connotation, in Eurasia that is not the case.

Hardly! I believe it is time to hang a 🫵" Turn the GPS on, Grindr " sign. 👯‍♂️as the Olympians want to hook up easily. I sure am glad I am not in any Olympics Team, or else I most likely would not have fun for two weeks. I am sorry you feel my response is "troll", because the person who raised the question seemed to appreciate my answer. Also, I am really glad for the people who raised the question of my usage of "gay as choice" because I realized even if I meant to say something and even if i am correct(technically) , ultimately how most people read it, is something that matters quite a bit. As someone who is trying to improve his communication skills including writing, I feel that's a big one for me. If you feel this thread has reached its finality, then I would invite you to try another one I started last week.

My sentence did came with a Caveat: In this sense; warning readers that i was referring to being gay as a choice, in another sense( the second one where do something with it: embrace etc.) and not the popular one; and I had referred to the sense/context in my first line about authoritarian countries and the dangers gays face in such places. I meant in 'that/this sense', as in , in such a context. I believe my usage might be a bit Archaic and not quite American, but I would be surprised if I was wrong. Having said that, I have been known to be wrong... so ....

Yes, Exactly, and I thought I had clarified that through my following posts: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Clarification ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subsequent Clarification and then finally again in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Superior Clarification.