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  • 4 months later...
Posted

Can't wait for more, sometimes we just need that little push to become what we truly desire to be and trust me with Miss T it isn't hard to become the slut we all want to become

Guest mspsubmale
Posted

have to agree a very, very hot story...and, like one of the other comments, feel the need to be one of the bottom slaves for a group like this...especially the Black top....

Posted

I went to pick up some supplies and my dealer opened the door naked.  He had a cute young white boy on the floor sucking his cock.  As we went into the living room, the boy crawled backwards with the cock pushed deep to the balls in his mouth.  As we sat on the couch, the boy followed my friend's every move and kept on sucking his cock not letting it out of his mouth.  

"Who's this piglet white boy?"

"A kid that some guy met at some rave. They came over and wanted to get some stuff but didn't have enough money. So the guy left this kid as the payment."

"What the fuck...  did the kid agree to this?"

"Well.....  Sorta. The kid was too fucked up and busy sucking on my cock."

"Fuck.  He looks young.  How old is he?"

"Probably 18. I don't know.  They did some Ecstasy at the rave and the guy wanted to pop the kid's cherry but the kid was too shy.  So he brought him here and gave him some G and T. But when he saw my cock, he got hooked on it and didn't care about his friend."

"ha ha.  You do have a nice cock, man."

"well....  the other guy is sorta asshole anyway. And it could be fun to pop a cherry sometimes."

As we talked and took care of the business, the kid sucked his cock the whole time.  After taking some hits for the road, my friend finally pulled the kid off of his cock and fed him the drug.  The kid didn't want the drug but wanted the cock back instead.  My friend slapped him and told him to take more hits.  The kid took more hits as he was told. When he got my friend's cock back in his mouth, he moaned around the cock as his eyes rolled back.  My friend pushed the kids head down and held him there.  The kid choked and try to free himself but my friend was too strong.  Around the cock, saliva started to pour down as the kid's forced open mouth couldn't contain it.  After few repeats, the kid started to take initiative and started to choke himself on my friend's cock without my friend holding him down.  I was impressed and thought of my slave boy and wanted to see them side by side.  My friend wanted to meet my slave boy as well so I left to pick up my slave boy.  

 

My slave boy was surprised to see me at his door and was a bit hesitant to get to his slave position right away.  I decided for a punishment later as I talked to him warmly to take some hits on the pipe.  After few hits, he got naked and got to his slave pose and begged me for my cock.  I told him we are going to my friend's place.  He seemed really disappointed but as I told him about my friend, the hunger returned in his eyes.

 

My friend is a latino, I think from Dominican Rep. He's only 5' 9 and slender muscular body but he's got a cock that can put many men to shame.  He's 39 yo but looks young enough to be mistaken for an older brother to his sons who are 16yo and 20yo.  He treats his bottoms the way he treats his women, gentle at first but rough in bed.  

 

My slave boy seemed to love what I was telling him about my friend as he started to moan softly. I smiled thinking about how we are going to train two slave boys together as we left my slave's place.

  • Upvote 4
Posted

My friend (Rodriguez, Rod from now) answered the door the same way he did before.  

"Damn, the kid has been working on your cock for hours."

"I know man.  He's in love with it or something."

 

My slave boy got naked and got on his knees while we sat on the couch.  I told him to go to Rod and help the kid with his cock and he crawled to Rod.  The kid kept on sucking as my slave got next to him and stared.  Then my slave started to say something to the kid and they started to reposition their bodies.  My slave got on his back under the kid so he could suck on the balls while the kid sucked the cock.  Rod must have liked the added sensation as he closed his eyes and grunted softly. Three slim muscular bodies entangled looked really hot.  So I started to record it.  I moved around and got some close ups as well.  As it got close to midnight, Rod's phone started ring and we had to take a break.  Rod took both of them to his bathroom in his bedroom and showed them how to use the enema in the shower.  He handed them a towel to share and a huge double headed dildo.  

"that will keep them busy while I make some money."

 

Rod put a sweatpants and threw me one to put on as well as his customers came by.  Many of them are very horny and as they get some drugs, they get sex crazed. We didn't want to attract them tonight since we had another plan.  I checked on our bottoms once in a while and my slave behaved really well as he prepared both the kid and himself for fucking.  He also opened the kid's virgin ass with the one side of dildo as he whispered words of encouragements.  When few inches of it was inside the kid, my slave took the other end and pushed it into himself.  The kid gasped with a surprise push of the dildo as my slave pushed from the other end but being both high and natural bottoms, the kid's cock jumped up with excitement and soon they were both rock hard as they fucked the double headed dildo.  It was hot and funny to see two submissive bottom boys eagerly opening their holes for us so I told Rod to check it out as well.  Rod decided to share the vision with others so he pulled my slave's hair and led them to the living room.  The white boy followed crawling backwards as not to let out a rubber cock in him.  The kid maybe a young virgin but he sure seemed ready for good fucking both his throat and his hole.  He was a natural born slave boy like my Asian slave.  Rod told me he's glad that his junkie friend found this boy for him.  

 

As the slaves entertained themselves and put on the show for some clients, Rod made some money and I helped him measuring and stuff.  Rod told me how he likes my slave as well as his new white slave and asked me if he could him sometime so we made the arrangement. Rod said he was impressed how my slave led the other newer slave in cleaning and preparing their body for us and I told him about how my slave loves to be submissive and worship me and my friends.  And he's a high school teacher so he's good with teaching other slaves.  Rod's boy slave is a college freshman and he was in high school wrestling team.  He was in closet til college and that guy was the third gay man he met.  I could see the wrestler's muscle on that small white boy's body.  

 

Some guys wanted to play with us or our slaves but we didn't let them do more than touching them. Few got away with taking their dicks out and our slaves took it in their mouth as their nature took charge but we stopped them and slapped the slaves face as a punishment which didn't really seem to help.  Finally around 5 AM as it got brighter outside, people stopped coming or calling. I could see how difficult it'd be for Rod to have his own fun sometimes.  We both got on either side of our slaves and fed them more drugs and our cocks.  Rod asked me if my slave was converted and I have been filling him with poz seeds of mine and others since the day I broke him but not tested yet.  We asked my Asian slave if he got tested and he shook his head.  I told him to go get tested ASAP.  Talking about breeding these slaves with our poz seeds got both of us in the mood for it so we pulled them away from the dildo.  They both seemed very disappointed as their holes got emptied and much happier as we replaced it with our cocks. Even with hours of playing with the dildo, both slaves holes were tight around our cocks.  My slave struggled a bit as I tried to push the whole cock to the balls with one thrust so I had to hold him down.  Rod's slave took it better like a good athlete but his hole got ripped a little and bled a little bit around Rod's cock.  As Rod started to pump in and out, the white kid slave's eyes started to fill with tears but the kid was determined to take it like a true sub bottom and didn't struggle or scream.  As his cock started to get hard and leaked out lots of precum making a pool under his body, he started to moan and push back to Rod.  Shortly after that, Rod grunted and shot his loads deep into the kid.  Rod started to back up on to the sofa slowly and the still hungry kid started to followed back with him, not letting his cock out of him.  Rod's cock must have stayed hard enough after the first cum as the kid continued to fuck himself on his cock and for the first time i heard him speak.

"Oh my god.  I love you, man.  I love your cock and I love gay fucking man.  Please fuck me more and never stop, man."

The kid continued self fucking and chanting of his love for Rod's cock for a while even as the drug started to kick in again and he started to slur his words.  

 

My slave needed some discipline as he showed some disobedience before so after his hole got used to my cock and he started to push back, I pulled out completely.  He stared back at me with tears in his eyes and begged me to put it back in.  I told him the list of things he did wrong today and he said he was sorry.  I slapped his ass really hard and told him to repeat "Thank you sir" As I gave him as many slapping as the times of mistake I counted today, my slave's pain started to change its effect on my slave's body.  His whimpering and cries had become moans of pleasure and tearing eyes now closed tight.  His small cock was rock hard and drooling pre-cum.  When I told him the end of the punishment for today, he started to beg me if I could fuck him now.  I did reward his enthusiasm with my cock and pounded in and out of him few times before his body shook and the walls of his hole started to massage my shaft as he neared his orgasm.  And all of sudden, my cock from the head to the base got a tight grip of his wet hot pussy muscle as he shot his loads. And my cock did the same thing almost at the same time deep into his hole.  The tight grip of his hole on my cock helped my cock not to lose too much blood after cumming and stayed hard in his hole.  I lifted my slave's small body and sat on the couch next to Rod and placed him on my lap.  My slave boy started to grind his hip as he slowly rode my cock.  

"Man, these boys are loving our cocks.  Your slave looks like a fucking bitch, man.  He sure knows how to bump and grind."  

"He'd be a girl if he had some tits but he's Asian."

"Ha ha... well some Asian bitches have tits although I must agree that's not what they are good for.  They do have tight pussies though."

"I wouldn't know.  I don't play that team, you know."

"Ha ha...  I wonder if he has a sister or something.  It's been a while since I had some pussy.  I always end up fucking men since I am surrounded by men who practically beg me to fuck them all the time like this bitch."

And Rod slapped the white boy's ass leaving a huge red hand print on it.  The boy yelped but continued his self fucking with moaning.  

 

We heard the key at the door and saw Rod's older son walking in, followed by his younger son and their friend.  They paused a little before greeting us and went to their room to drop their bags.  They came back out to the living room and sat by the table and started to smoke the pipe.  Their friend came out little later and sat on the couch between me and Rod.  The kid must be enjoying the show as he showed a big hard on.  He took it out and started to pump it with one hand while he felt around our cocks and slaves' holes with his fingers.  Rod's sons asked him if he wanted to smoke.  As he got up to take the pipe, both slaves' eyes were glued to his teenage cock.  Rod told the kid he could join if he wants to.  The kid fed his cock to Rod's slave boy and took hits from the pipe as his cock was sucked into the kid's throat.  Rod's son got next to his friend and fed my slave his cock. We all passed the pipe around as our slaves' holes worked on our cocks.  Rod's younger son left a bit upset but came back out later to remind Rod what time it was.  I was surprised how long we have been playing with our slaves.  I had to go to work so I pulled out of my slave.  My slave milked my cock for couple of more loads while I was sitting on the couch so the hole leaked out alot of liquid.  As I entered the bathroom to clean up, Rod's younger son took my place.  The boy had a bigger cock than other boys maybe bigger or equal size as mine.  And being a young stud, he really fucked like a rabbit, fast, deep and hard.  Rod and the friend had to pull out their cocks to get some work done as well.  When I got ready to leave and went to the living room, I saw that my slave had no intention of leaving as he was down on his back under the other slave while both of them were being fucked by the younger men.  My slave was sucking on the balls above him as he watched the fucking from up close.  The white slave had his eyes glued to the cock and the hole in front of his eyes.  Ron said he will take care of my slave so I left his apartment as the pleasure filled moaning of both slaves and white smoke filled the whole room.  

  • Upvote 6
  • Piggy 1
Posted

It has been couple of days since I left my slave at my dealer bud, Rod's place in the hands of him and his two young sons.  Rod gave me goodies as a gift when I left and I used them after work and stayed horny.  Rod's sons were nice enough to send me some video files of them with my slave and another young white slave as they used them.  I was so horny after days of after-work highs and watching the sex videos of young men so I rang up Rod after work on Friday.  Rod invited me over but warned me how both slaves might be exhausted after days of sex and drugs.  

 

As I entered Rod's apartment, I saw a young black boy right behind me. Rod's younger son knew the black boy as he welcomed both of us into the dark apartment.  Rod was in his bedroom talking to someone on the phone.  The living room was really dark except the light from the TV screen which played the video of two sex slaves.  Both slaves were on the floor watching themselves while my Asian slave pumped a huge vibrator into the young white slave's hungry hole.  Through his moans, the white slave was still asking for more cocks to fuck him.  Rod's younger son looked annoyed as he stared down at the young white boy's body on the floor.  He put his foot on his face and started to push his toes into white slave boy's mouth. The moaning and the begging for more cock fucking from the white slave was silenced by a young man's foot gagging.  

"Finally some peace.  This bitch has been asking for more cocks for days now and it's so  fucking annoying."

Young man bend down to slap the white boy's cheeks under his foot and told him to shut up.

White slave boy's eyes teared up but his slim white cock and his nipples stayed hard through the slapping.  My Asian slave started to fuck the big vibrator in and out of the white boy's hole really hard.  The white slave's body was rocking hard on the rubber cock and Rod's young son replaced his foot with his soft cock as he sat over the white boy's head.  Few minutes later, the young boy held the the white boy's head on his cock and started to piss into the white boy's throat.  White slave started to twist his body probably in an effort to free himself but both the young boy pissing and my Asian slave kept the white slave boy down. My Asian slave stopped fucking the white boy and pulled the huge vibrator out of his hole in one long pull.  The white boy closed his eyes as his body felt so empty.  My Asian slave started to rub his hands all over the white slave's body as he whispered right next to the slave's ears and the encouragement to swallow the young boy's piss.  My Asian slave's small hands wrapped around the the white slave's neck, started to massage the white boy's throat.  Soon after that, white boy's throat muscle was flexing and his adam's apple moved up and down as the white boy started to drink young boy's piss.  Rod's son pissed for a long time and alot down the throat of the white slave who couldn't swallow fast enough and started to leak around the young cock.  The piss had very strong odor and it filled the whole living room immediately.  Young boy didn't want to make too much of mess in his living room so he pulled up the white slave's body slowly as his pissing cock remained deep in the white boy's throat and dragged him into the bathroom.  

 

My Asian slave stayed on the living room floor on his knees and was quickly approached by a young naked black boy who looked barely 16 yo.  I didn't notice him the whole time since we entered the apartment but he seemed to enjoy what he saw as he was sporting a very big black erection.  The young boy had a freakish huge cock.  My Asian slave being trained well on deep throat sucking showed some trouble and paused about half way.  As the young black boy's cock kept my Asian slave's mouth wide open, lots of saliva started to leak out of slave's lips.  The boy's big black cock was getting shiny as it got wet.  The young black boy was smiling as he looked down at the Asian slave and he grabbed the Asian's hair and pulled back.  The black boy bent down to make direct eye contact with the Asian slave's and said,

"Hello, Mister Yi.  Or should I call you, Chris?"

The Asian slave looked a bit puzzled as they stared at each other's face.  Then he let out a loud gasp as he recognized the face of the young black boy.  

"Do you remember me now?  I was in your first period class. I know you were a cock sucker when you couldn't stop staring at my morning hard on sometimes.  But I didn't know you were such a dirty bitch."

My Asian slave looked really embarrassed but the young man tightened his grab of hair and pulled tighter.  Quickly my Asian slave's body relaxed under the young black boy's control showing his submission.  Rod's younger son returned without the white slave boy and asked the young black boy if he broke the truth.  Rod's younger son, Ryan is 18 YO and his older brother Ron is 20 YO and they go to the same school with the young black boy, Marc.  Ron was in juvie sometime for sexual assault of an older lady while on drugs few years ago.  Their school is also a work place of my Asian slave as I found out.  Marc recognized the face from the videos that Ryan posted on his site and they wanted to have some fun with their teacher.  As Ryan and Marc talked about their teacher, the cock sucking dirty slut and laughed at him, my Asian slave started to get more aroused. His body seem to enjoy humiliation.  Slave started to moan softly around Marc's cock as he bobbed his head little by little taking slightly more of Marc's cock in.  Marc was amused by the effort and and helped him by pushing the head down with more pressure.  Ryan's cock got hard and as he positioned it near the Asian hole, my slave spread his cheeks for Ryan.  Ryan spit on the hole and on his cock and put a little pressure to pop the head of his cock in the hole.  Once his head popped in through the tight ring, he wrapped his arms around the waist of slim Asian teacher and started to piss into the hole.  Ryan felt the flat stomach muscles of Asian teacher flexing under his embrace to accommodate his hot piss. He felt the tight slim stomach bulging out filled with his piss and as he continued his hold on the body and the pissing, the Asian teacher's body started to drink his piss deeper into himself.  

"Good bitch" Ryan thought as his pissing slowed down and he started to move in and out of the hole.  He slapped the ass really hard few times and it helped his cock to grow back hard.  Marc slapped the face at the same time as he pushed into the throat.  Soon the Asian teacher buried his nose at Marc's pubic hair as he fucked back to Ryan.  Ryan's piss must have lots of chem in it as the Asian teacher started to get high again.  I enjoyed watching two young man using their teacher for sex while high on drugs so I handed them a pipe and slammed my Asian slave with the boys' help.  I also gave some K to the Asian boy so he can take Marc's freaky cock if it came to that.  I opened my tablet and started to broadcast the sex being careful not to expose two young boy's face in it. As Marc and Ryan had more drugs, they started to get more aggressive.  Soon they were not only beating the inside of the Asian with their hard cocks, but they were slapping and punching their teacher as well as they recalled incidents of their teacher being unfair to them.  My Asian slave started to welcome their beating as well as their fucking.  He started to cry as his cock kept on cumming without being touched. Their fucking and beating got loud enough for Rod to come out of his room still on the phone to tone the noise down.  But as he watched the fucking of two young boys and hearing the background story of their aggressive fucking, Rod got so turned on.  The person on the phone was curious as well so I told him the address of the broadcast.  Two young boys took advantage of the Asian slave's hole being unusually more open as he was on K, and pushed both their cocks in together.  The Asian's hole got ripped and started to bleed but the boys didn't stop fucking and the Asian slave didn't resist either.  After both of them came in the hole, Marc started to piss in it.  Ryan pulled out his softening cock and some piss leaked out.  Marc told his Asian teacher to tighten his hole and not let any of his piss leak out.  Ryan and Marc lifted the Asian teacher's slim body with Marc's cock still lodged deep inside and sprayed piss in the hole. They walked into the bathroom and got in the tub before they yanked the body off the cock.  The Asian hole didn't close quick enough and splashed piss.  Rod and I followed into the bathroom and decided to piss on the Asian slave as well.  As we covered the whole body with our piss, the Asian was on the tub floor semi-conscious.  I wanted to see him getting a little taste of my piss so I pushed down on his cheek with my foot.  The boys mouth opened a little and Rod pushed his toes into it.  The Asian slave opened his mouth wider by instinct and stuck his tongue out to lick the toes. We aimed our piss on it and ordered him to drink up.  His adams apple moved up and down on his thin long neck as he obeyed.  He reeked when we were done with him so we turned the water on him before we joined two young boys.  

 

Then I wondered about the white slave.  Rod told me that the boy loved getting fucked any way the men wanted but wasn't submissive enough so he needed to be punished.  The white slave boy was chained and locked in a cage in Rod's bedroom .  He had a ball gag in his mouth to keep him quite.  Rod's older son, Ron was on the desk next to the cage and had long candles burning.  He poured the hot wax on the white boy's body when he got bored and saw the white boy reacting to it.  And slowly the white boy loving the burn of the hot wax on his skin.  We all felt hungry and decided to go out for food.  Ron poured remaining wax on the white boy's body and it covered almost whole body of the small white slave.  I took the last bit of it and made sure to cover his white cock and balls with candle wax.  To our amusement, the boy's white cock started to shoot cum when I covered it with hot wax.  We stopped at the bathroom to turn off the water and bound the now unconscious Asian slave by the toilet before we headed out.  

  • Upvote 5
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
Posted

Both my Asian slave and the young white slave were fond of each other as they shared being used by me and some black druggies. The young white slave boy was actually visiting from Palm Springs for a month and he wanted to have more sex before he went back.  He took me and my Asian boy to his penthouse and it was huge.  The young white boy was a spoiled brat when he wasn't high and begging for sex.  I invited a young black man with a huge cock to drop off supplies at the young boy's house as I enjoyed the hot tub while two slave boys rested on the other side of the tub leaning onto each other.  

 

My Asian slave walked out to use the bathroom and I could see the white slave eyeing my Asian's ass while he got hard in the water.  I pushed my foot on his hard cock and rubbed it to his torso as I asked him if he wanted to fuck my Asian boy.  The white boy lost his spoiled bratty air and started to moan and begged me to let him use my slave as he was used by me.  I told him it depends on his service and he started to get in the water and crawled to me and sucked me in the water.  I pulled his hair hard and held his head up as I stared into his eyes and saw the lust in his eyes.   I told him to go get some booty bump ready for my Asian and he quickly walked away with his hard cock bobbing in front of him.  I went to the bathroom to find my Asian boy as he was leaving and pushed him into the bathroom and told him to use the hose to deep cleanse his hole for another night of being used.  

 

When the white boy returned with a huge syringe, I could see the cloudiness of water in it.  It was alot of drugs dissolved in alot of water.  We entered the bathroom and found my boy filling himself with hot water from the hose.  I lifted my Asian boy and put him over the toilet and we both watched as he pushed out the water.  It was basically clean.  The boy filled his ass with lots of water as well as the stream lasted for a while.  When my Asian was done releasing, we pushed him on the floor as we filled his clean hole with drug water.  My Asian boy tried to run away as he complained it was burning.  I stopped him and told him to shut up but realized he must be really burning inside as I felt the heat on my finger as I fingered his hole.  I looked at the white boy and he was all smile as he stared down at my Asian boy's body melting on the floor from the sexual lust and drugs.  I saw my Asian boy's eyes were rolled back already.  I heard the doorbell and as I went to answer it, I told the white boy he could start whenever.

 

When we returned to the bathroom, I saw the white boy moving my Asian boy to the bedroom.  Since both of them were equally skinny, he was struggling.  My young black man friend handed me the bag and pulled my Asian boy in his arms and walked to the bedroom as the white slave stared at him in lust.  

 

As my young black friend placed my Asian boy on the bed, he wasted no time and started to pull his clothes off.  The white slave automatically got on his at his feet and admired him from the floor.  Both me and my friend laughed a little and let him admire him a bit longer before we reminded him that he asked me to use my slave tonight.  White young boy asked the black man for his name.  

"Fuzz" 

"I am Sam.  I love your body."  

Fuzz smiled and turned his attention to my Asian boy who was eyeing two naked bodies as his drugged up body was filled with heated lust.  Fuzz pushed a finger and felt the heated pussy wall of my boy and was surprised how much we gave him  booty bump.  

The young white boy Sam answered casually I just wanted to prep him well for me and you and everyone..  Realizing how the inside would be ruined if Fuzz fucked it with his huge cock and filled it with his poz seeds, he got turned on more.  He sat at the head of the bed and guided my Asian slave's hole onto his cock slowly til he was balls deep.  He lifted the body slightly so the head fell back making it easier for the young Sam to feed him his cock.  Once filled with a cock deep inside, my Asian slave started to come back alive and started to fuck both his holes with the hard cocks of both young men.  They rarely used force except when they slapped the boy.  I started to record the whole scene on the camera.  Fuzz must have not done drugs since he came in about 15 minutes after he entered that asian hole.  Young Sam took that place an fucked that wet hole as Fuzz and I walked out to do business.  After I told him about young Sam and how he's starting to find out his love of black cocks and Fuzz agreed to help him with that before Sam returned home. I wanted the young rich kid to pay for everything so we walked back to the room to find two young slave boys actually making love and kissing.  

 

We enjoyed the sweet moment for few minutes before I pulled Sam  away and told him to pay Fuzz cash for the supplies.  Sam pulled his wallet out and handed Fuzz 10 Hundreds and returned to the bed.  The boy was loaded and we were going to use that to our advantage while his stay.  As the two young slaves made love, Fuzz prepared slams for him and Sam.  We sat and watched them make love passionately until Sam came.  Fuzz walked over to Sam and told him to hold still as he gave him the injection.  He took his as well while he watched the white boy started to react to his first slam.  He told the boy to pack for a short field trip as he pulled him off Asian boy and pushed his own cock back in there.  My Asian boy opened his eyes and looked up to Fuzz as he shoved his 12 inches of black cock.  Soon Fuzz started to piss into my boy's hole making him get higher on drugs.  Sam was so lost with the slam and felt strong need to get fucked while he was i the shower and started to fuck himself with the hose.  It was after a good hour or son that I left Fuzz and my slave to find Sam fucking himself in the shower.  I told him to hurry up and slapped him hard to bring him back to the reality.  Sam was hunger slave now.   When Sam was dressed and ready he went to get Fuzz and watched Fuzz's 12 inches of cock leaving asian boy's piss filled hole and spilled alot of it on his bed.  Sam found the piss smell intoxicating as he found himself cleaning Fuzz's cock with his mouth.  Fuzz pulled back and told him he will have his filling where they are going.   As Fuzz and Sam got ready to leave, I got on the bed with my Asian slave and rested.  Sam came back and gave us sleeping pills if we wanted to rest and left.  Now the whole place was ours.  We moved to another bedroom since that room was too stinky with druggy piss and took our pills before sleeping.  

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4
Posted

what a great story , loving that BBC, all 12" of it, on my bucket list a big black cock to fill me with it's seed, any takers............lol

  • 4 weeks later...

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