Dude lied about his status and bred me

[JamesL100]

he could be poz with a sky high VL or on meds and undetectable ... seeing as this is an issue for you then better discuss with him.

sometimes a gut feeling is correct, or point in the right direction, but you have to decide your comfortable risk/safety levels.

there are guys who enjoy cum sex then scream when they might have picked up a minor STI or even more serious poz/hep.

maybe you should log off this horny site if it's too much for you? or stick around and find out how other non-sluts cope/deal with life?

[hungry_hole]

power0459, somewhere you say:

I have no problem with poz people, my best friend is poz and an awesome guy, he'd never put someone in a situation where they could contract his strain without telling them.

But before that you said:

I was wasted one night back in March, after a particularly bad breakup, and met a dude on a4a, good looking, big dick, top, Latin.. we exchanged messages for a while, he assured me he was clean, so I agreed to meet him at his place. Got two loads from him.

Maybe he was wasted after a bad breakup too, and he was horny and felt like seeding a hole. Why being wasted can justify your behavior but not his?

WTF is wrong with people? I shoulder a lot of the blame in this, so I'm not trying to discount that. Should I confront him?

You are to blame.

Something like "Are you clean?" is not the right question. Anybody who expects complete honesty and knowledge about their sexual health situation is simply naive. As it's been said so many times here, guys lie or they don't know they are HIV+.

If you wanna share responsibility in terms of HIV you first have to get to know the guy you want to bareback with and not let somebody semi-anonymous breed your hole. I do blame a guy who lies to his long-term partner. But in "quickies" the responsibility is ALL yours.

You're 26, still very young and attractive, so there will be many guys who will want to breed you and you have to decide whether you put your anon sex desires in the back burner or just live your fantasies and let yourself go, let guys breed you in saunas and gangbangs. The choice is yours but if you poz you shouldn't blame anyone but yourself.

[Guest beezee]

IMHO, it's completely accurate to say "clean" when one is poz with an undetectable viral load

The chances of infection might be lower, but it's immoral (and ought to be criminal IMHO) to mislead someone about their potential risk in response to a direct question. It's the individual's choice to make, equipped with the truth. To make the decision for them, because you know better & they'd say no if given the chance to, is arrogant if not psychopathic.

[seaguy]

he lied plain and simple, people will say it is your fault you knew the risk which is part true but if you asked him whether or not he was poz and he said he was clean in reply then to most that would mean no i am not poz. i know people take issue with the use of the term clean but when it is used i think it's wrong to try and cover a lie by saying well the term clean could mean any number of things.

dudes a fucking liar loose his number and don't tell him anything let him wonder if he does. i just have a thing against people who lie about thier status like that. it certainly does not help the argument for ending the criminalization of hiv when you have people like that who lie. cause those conservative ass holes that get those laws passed will say what if it was a young teen he had done that too?

[rtpbbcub]

First, criminalizing HIV, not just intentional infection, is probably one of the worst ideas ever. Really. All anyone gets out of that is the mistreatment of people with HIV and a system that has a loophole, "untested, unknown, unprosecutable just in case." And frankly, the fact that you could go snooping into someones medical records that way, is even more credence to the "just in case" school of thought.

Second, there seems to be a paradox there, you both understand the risks of relying on the honor system and then you are upset that the honor system isn't perfect, pick one.

But all of that aside for a moment, at what point do you have any right to feel cheated by the honor system if what he said was true, not in the sense that he wasn't HIV positive, but that he posed no risk to you. Or, more importantly, if you have as much gall to claim the ends justify the means of prying into someone else's medical records to find out their status, how can you sit in judgment of what happened?

And therein lies the whole problem with untrained busybodies snooping into material they do not understand, they go hunting for a single data point and care fuckall about what information or knowledge should go with it. In arguing RawTops IMHO, you counter that it could also be a sky high VL. Great, so while digging into someone else's life, you couldn't be bothered to ask questions that were relevant? No, of course not, you only wanted to know something you had no business going after to feed your own maligned sense of self righteousness.

Sorry, but if you think that is the honor system, that you deserve being treated with honor, that others have a responsibility to you despite that, you are wrong. And that why the honor system doesn't work. People, just like you, feel the ends justify the means, and that their means are not what the honor system is there for. You think it only has to do with someone else's actions and nothing to do with your own, and then feel outraged at the fact someone else isn't playing by the rules.

Reminds me of that girl in kindergarten who had a fit because I didn't bow my head and close my eyes during prayer, tattle-telling as hard as she could to the teacher how bad I was and should be punished. To quote that teacher, "perhaps you are right, we should punish all children who don't bow their heads and close their eyes during prayer, by the way, how did you come to know this?"

[power0459]

I'm going to wind this thread down in just a few short sentences and not revisit it:

1) I'm fully aware of the risks involved with unprotected sex. I CHOSE to play Russian Roulette, so to speak

2) This guy KNEW he was HIV+, despite several denials, so it was more akin to playing with a revolver that was fully loaded

3) I take responsibility for what I did, and know that if my test did come back POZ, I would SHARE responsibility

4) I'm NOT as "experienced" (no shade) as many on here, and have only recently begun to embrace my inner cumslut

5) By no means am I getting bred weekly, or even every other week. I consider getting bred to be a special occasion and one worth experiencing maybe every other month.

6) I harbor no ill-will towards this guy, nor to any of you, I'm simply providing my perspective on the situation

7) Just because two people are horny cumsluts, does not give one the right to defy common decency and *gasp* manners (I'm from the South) by not divulging one's HIV status (when known)

8) Failing to alert your partner (despite the wording used to ask their status) of your infection, when it is KNOWN, is still considered criminal. Hell, you don't even HAVE to ask as far as I know. The burden of disclosure lies with the infected partner.

Thank you everyone for your input, I really do appreciate it. I know that some people will probably read that and interpret it to be sarcastic or patronizing. It's not... Every poster on here has given me different points of view and things to think about. I called our AIDS Center here in town and they've given me some leads on where to get PrEP, so I'm going to go that route I think.

Again, thank you all.

[rawTOP]

You are to blame.

No one is to blame. Nothing happened. The OP is still neg.

The chances of infection might be lower, but it's immoral (and ought to be criminal IMHO) to mislead someone about their potential risk in response to a direct question.

The risk isn't just "lower", it's zero - and that makes a huge difference. Find me one person who's been infected by someone who's consistently undetectable and has no other STDs (which is included in the "I'm clean" statement). The scientists and public health folks can't find anyone who's been infected. And this is 18 years after the advent of ARVs. If such cases existed, we'd know about them.

Since there was zero risk, how exactly was the guy mislead about the risk? The poz guy's only moral obligation is to not infect someone who is making a concerted effort to stay neg. If there's no chance of infection, then there's no moral obligation.

It's the individual's choice to make, equipped with the truth. To make the decision for them, because you know better & they'd say no if given the chance to, is arrogant if not psychopathic.

To say that discrimination against poz guys is OK because people are ignorant is wrong-headed. Arrogance is thinking it's OK that someone suffers because of your ignorance.

[Guest BBSeroMan]

ASSUME EVERYONE is HIV+ REGARDLESS of what they say. This includes your GREAT GRANDFATHER.

[rawTOP]

2) This guy KNEW he was HIV+, despite several denials, so it was more akin to playing with a revolver that was fully loaded

This is just factually wrong. If he was undetectable, then there were no bullets in his gun. If you want to talk about risk talk about neg guys who aren't on PrEP. Recently I saw someone say that 85% of infections are caused by people like that. I need to verify the number, but it seems about right. HIV is predominately spread by people who think they're neg.

And this is your last warning. I don't tolerate factually incorrect statements that are used to vilify people. Say it again and I'll ban you. Ditto for anyone else who repeats false statements in this thread.

On a more personal note - from 1991 to early 1995 (before ARVs, back when HIV actually killed you), I lived with a guy who strongly implied he was neg when he was actually poz - and had been poz for years. Long story, but I stayed with him after I found out and while he was sick just before he died. In retrospect he wasn't being honest with himself either. He knew he was poz but he just couldn't come to terms with it. It wasn't just me he was lying to. So I've gone through being lied to back in a time when it could have killed me, and I'm sorry - it's not as simple as just blaming the poz guy. They have the right to be human as well and you don't really know what's going on in their head.

8)Failing to alert your partner (despite the wording used to ask their status) of your infection, when it is KNOWN, is still considered criminal. Hell, you don't even HAVE to ask as far as I know. The burden of disclosure lies with the infected partner.

HIV Criminalization is a huge problem - it is not the solution. HIV criminalization leads to fear, stigma, fewer guys getting tested, and hence more infections. Especially now that's there's PrEP - the responsibility for staying neg belongs to the neg guy, not the poz guy.

[TigerMilner]

Whoa, dude... harsh choice of words, and not at all apt. I have taken responsibility for my actions. I knew that I was playing with a loaded gun, so to speak. In fact, the last part of my post was "I know I shoulder a lot of the blame, and I'm not trying to discount that." I'm not necessarily angry with him, and I more than likely won't confront him. I had just kept this to myself for a while and I really wanted to vent to someone. It's the first time I'd (knowingly) encountered someone that was POZ and failed to disclose it before engaging in sex. I'm sure it's more common than I realize, but I still think it's at the very least callous.

I'm well aware that if I play with fire I may get burned, and this was a wakeup call. I'm not aware of any docs in my area that Rx PrEP, so if anyone has any recommendations on where to go in the Charlotte area, I'd be much obliged.

If he is positive and on meds, you have no worry. It's the one's who think they are negative and don't know they are poz that get you.

[hungry_hole]

Responding to my comment that power0459 has to blame himself:

No one is to blame. Nothing happened. The OP is still neg.

True, but power0459 cannot blame no one else but himself for the anxiety he felt about the possibility of being poz.

[wood]

Hey all,

I was wasted one night back in March, after a particularly bad breakup, and met a dude on a4a, good looking, big dick, top, Latin.. we exchanged messages for a while, he assured me he was clean, so I agreed to meet him at his place. Got two loads from him. Fast forward to last week, he texts me and wants to go at it again. For whatever reason I felt uncomfortable, something just didn't seem right about him the first time we met. So I used the resources available to me (do not ask), and found out he was POZ.

He shouldnt have lied, but you saying you "used the resources availiable to me" also makes me think you did something improper, Which I also cant condone. If the guy is undetectable his is very low risk to you. It also sounds like you should be a on PrEP so you dont worry. I am, and never worry about sex with undetectable guys, topping or bottoming.

[bbzh]

I know, and what's worse is that as I sit here typing this, I've got three fresh loads from two dudes swimming in me. Dammit. Cum is my heroin.

After you get on PrEP, please let your next stop be a therapist's couch.

#noshade

[seaguy]

if he did not want his medical records snooped through then he should not have fucking lied.

[seaguy]

First, criminalizing HIV, not just intentional infection, is probably one of the worst ideas ever. Really. All anyone gets out of that is the mistreatment of people with HIV and a system that has a loophole, "untested, unknown, unprosecutable just in case." And frankly, the fact that you could go snooping into someones medical records that way, is even more credence to the "just in case" school of thought.

Second, there seems to be a paradox there, you both understand the risks of relying on the honor system and then you are upset that the honor system isn't perfect, pick one.

But all of that aside for a moment, at what point do you have any right to feel cheated by the honor system if what he said was true, not in the sense that he wasn't HIV positive, but that he posed no risk to you. Or, more importantly, if you have as much gall to claim the ends justify the means of prying into someone else's medical records to find out their status, how can you sit in judgment of what happened?

And therein lies the whole problem with untrained busybodies snooping into material they do not understand, they go hunting for a single data point and care fuckall about what information or knowledge should go with it. In arguing RawTops IMHO, you counter that it could also be a sky high VL. Great, so while digging into someone else's life, you couldn't be bothered to ask questions that were relevant? No, of course not, you only wanted to know something you had no business going after to feed your own maligned sense of self righteousness.

Sorry, but if you think that is the honor system, that you deserve being treated with honor, that others have a responsibility to you despite that, you are wrong. And that why the honor system doesn't work. People, just like you, feel the ends justify the means, and that their means are not what the honor system is there for. You think it only has to do with someone else's actions and nothing to do with your own, and then feel outraged at the fact someone else isn't playing by the rules.

Reminds me of that girl in kindergarten who had a fit because I didn't bow my head and close my eyes during prayer, tattle-telling as hard as she could to the teacher how bad I was and should be punished. To quote that teacher, "perhaps you are right, we should punish all children who don't bow their heads and close their eyes during prayer, by the way, how did you come to know this?"

under HIPAA you have to be trained and received access to said records so the chances of some untrained busybody getting access to medical records or any sort is pretty rare, and would be by accident most likely.