Is stealthing morally okay?

[Kayne]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:12 PM, ErosWired said:

I don't believe sociopath means what you think it means.

Uh, I know exactly what im talking about.

Three traits of Sociopaths are not respecting social norms, not having care for one's own personal safety, and not being able to make long term plans; Quote.

"A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. He may know that taking your money is wrong, and he might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop his behavior." 

Not every Sociopath, manifests their antisocial behavior outwardly,  so, yeah... 

[ErosWired]

1 minute ago, Kayne said:

Uh, I know exactly what im talking about.

Three traits of Sociopaths are not respecting social norms, not having care for one's own personal safety, and not being able to make long term plans; Quote.

"A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. He may know that taking your money is wrong, and he might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop his behavior." 

Not every Sociopath, manifests their antisocial behavior outwardly,  so, yeah... 

Nope. You don’t get to cherry-pick two or three characteristics of a mental disorder and then broad-brush a whole class of people with it. That’s ridiculous. Try using the DSM-V diagnostic criteria and seeing how that applies to all of us. (It doesn’t.)

Besides, your “quote” is absurd on its face - what gives you the wrongheaded notion that everyone who takes an anon load has a weak conscience and impaired impulse control? And what standard of judgment are you pulling out of your own ass that you think we should all conform to your standards for our sexuality?

I’ll take a hard pass on that, thanks.

[Kayne]

14 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

Nope. You don’t get to cherry-pick two or three characteristics of a mental disorder and then broad-brush a whole class of people with it. That’s ridiculous. Try using the DSM-V diagnostic criteria and seeing how that applies to all of us. (It doesn’t.)

Besides, your “quote” is absurd on its face - what gives you the wrongheaded notion that everyone who takes an anon load has a weak conscience and impaired impulse control? And what standard of judgment are you pulling out of your own ass that you think we should all conform to your standards for our sexuality?

I’ll take a hard pass on that, thanks.

First off. When diagnosing a thing, yo u certainly must pick the characteristics that match, while weighing those matching characteristics against those that refute you r theory. SOCIOPATHY AND PSYCHOPATHY are two different things, but there is a very thin line between them. 

Next, The primary reason one woukd be held in care is that they are a danger to themselves or others. I know, I've been there.

Next, I am far from sitting in Judgement of ANYONE.  putting aside what got me to this place, I have made and continue to make conscious decisions for which I take responsibility for, but was it self destructive? Yes?  Does actively participating in activities which are detrimental to one's self and others at the very leas, irresponsible? Yes. Does it show poor impulse control, certainly it does.

 

Is, it your ultimate decision to do so?  For sure,  

If you disregard the. Consequences that may arise from your actions and you get bitten in the ass, is it your fault? Absolutely. 

I say tnis being Poz. Knowing that I didnt get it through sex is irrelavant, especially when I still Bareback, and I almost exclusively fuck with POZ partners.

 

It does not change the underlying facts 

You are free to be  insulted and to disagree, but the choices made are self destructive 

[ErosWired]

14 hours ago, Kayne said:

First off. When diagnosing a thing, yo u certainly must pick the characteristics that match, while weighing those matching characteristics against those that refute you r theory. SOCIOPATHY AND PSYCHOPATHY are two different things, but there is a very thin line between them. 

Since you insist of doubling down on this absurd notion, let's take the time to be informed. The DSM-V actually currently doesn't have a separate listing for "sociopath", but sociopathy is diagnosed in the context of Antisocial Personality Disorder, the diagnostic features of which include:

Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

• Ego-centrism
• Self esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure
• Goal-setting based on personal gratification
• Absence of prosocial internal standards
• Failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior

Impairments in Empathy and Intimacy:

• Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others
• Lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another
• Incapable for mutually intimate relationships (exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion)
• Use of dominance or intimidation to control others

Antagonism, characterized by:

• Manipulation: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence, or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one's ends.
• Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentations of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events
• Callousness; Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one's own actions on others; aggression; sadism.
• Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful

Disinhibition, characterized by:

• Irresponsibility: Disregard for-and failure to honor-financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for-and lack of follow through on-agreements and promises.
• Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.
• Risk-taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one's limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

 

You seem to be trying to make your case mainly on the argument of the traits of Impulsivity and Risk-Taking, but there's a great deal more to being a sociopath than that. Just because we take anon loads does not mean we are automatically cold, callous, unfeeling, remorseless liars and manipulators with thin skins who seek to control others by deceit and intimidation. Hardly.

14 hours ago, Kayne said:

Next, The primary reason one woukd be held in care is that they are a danger to themselves or others. I know, I've been there.

By this statement, do you mean that you have yourself been held in care because you were deemed to be a danger to yourself or others? Please do not feel under any obligation to answer that question; I only ask because it suggests the possibility that your view on this matter may be a case of self-projection onto others.

14 hours ago, Kayne said:

Next, I am far from sitting in Judgement of ANYONE.  putting aside what got me to this place, I have made and continue to make conscious decisions for which I take responsibility for, but was it self destructive? Yes?  Does actively participating in activities which are detrimental to one's self and others at the very leas, irresponsible? Yes. Does it show poor impulse control, certainly it does.

 

Is, it your ultimate decision to do so?  For sure,  

If you disregard the. Consequences that may arise from your actions and you get bitten in the ass, is it your fault? Absolutely. 

I say tnis being Poz. Knowing that I didnt get it through sex is irrelavant, especially when I still Bareback, and I almost exclusively fuck with POZ partners.

 

It does not change the underlying facts 

You are free to be  insulted and to disagree, but the choices made are self destructive 

Certainly we are all responsible for our own choices. I think you'll find, in reading the posts on these boards, that most men here accept responsibility for their choices without hesitation. The very fact that we do argues against sociopathy. Does impulsivity make someone a sociopath? Does risk-taking? Does self-destructive behavior? Absent the other factors, no. Just because someone has a tendency to make impulse purchases does not make him a sociopath. Just because a man jumps out of perfectly good airplanes with a parachute for fun does not make him a sociopath. And every person who drinks alcohol or eats red meat three times a week is doing something self-destructive, but they're not automatically sociopaths.

I take anon loads. I'm responsible about it. I get tested beforehand to make sure I'm safe to play, and I get tested regularly to ensure I stay that way. If I catch something, I get it treated immediately and take myself out of circulation until I'm safe.  Like you, I am HIV+, and in fact am a 5-year AIDS survivor, durably Undetectable for three years. I very much care about the safety, health and well-being of the men I serve. I am honest, ethical, and my personal satisfaction comes from the pleasure I am able to provide to others. I am not a sociopath by any definition. Your hypothesis therefore fails the empirical test.

[Kayne]

Thank you for you r astut

12 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Since you insist of doubling down on this absurd notion, let's take the time to be informed. The DSM-V actually currently doesn't have a separate listing for "sociopath", but sociopathy is diagnosed in the context of Antisocial Personality Disorder, the diagnostic features of which include:

Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

• Ego-centrism
• Self esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure
• Goal-setting based on personal gratification
• Absence of prosocial internal standards
• Failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior

Impairments in Empathy and Intimacy:

• Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others
• Lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another
• Incapable for mutually intimate relationships (exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion)
• Use of dominance or intimidation to control others

Antagonism, characterized by:

• Manipulation: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence, or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one's ends.
• Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentations of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events
• Callousness; Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one's own actions on others; aggression; sadism.
• Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful

Disinhibition, characterized by:

• Irresponsibility: Disregard for-and failure to honor-financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for-and lack of follow through on-agreements and promises.
• Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.
• Risk-taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one's limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

 

You seem to be trying to make your case mainly on the argument of the traits of Impulsivity and Risk-Taking, but there's a great deal more to being a sociopath than that. Just because we take anon loads does not mean we are automatically cold, callous, unfeeling, remorseless liars and manipulators with thin skins who seek to control others by deceit and intimidation. Hardly.

By this statement, do you mean that you have yourself been held in care because you were deemed to be a danger to yourself or others? Please do not feel under any obligation to answer that question; I only ask because it suggests the possibility that your view on this matter may be a case of self-projection onto others.

Certainly we are all responsible for our own choices. I think you'll find, in reading the posts on these boards, that most men here accept responsibility for their choices without hesitation. The very fact that we do argues against sociopathy. Does impulsivity make someone a sociopath? Does risk-taking? Does self-destructive behavior? Absent the other factors, no. Just because someone has a tendency to make impulse purchases does not make him a sociopath. Just because a man jumps out of perfectly good airplanes with a parachute for fun does not make him a sociopath. And every person who drinks alcohol or eats red meat three times a week is doing something self-destructive, but they're not automatically sociopaths.

I take anon loads. I'm responsible about it. I get tested beforehand to make sure I'm safe to play, and I get tested regularly to ensure I stay that way. If I catch something, I get it treated immediately and take myself out of circulation until I'm safe.  Like you, I am HIV+, and in fact am a 5-year AIDS survivor, durably Undetectable for three years. I very much care about the safety, health and well-being of the men I serve. I am honest, ethical, and my personal satisfaction comes from the pleasure I am able to provide to others. I am not a sociopath by any definition. Your hypothesis therefore fails the empirical test.

First off, thank you for putting words in my mouth. I never called you, personally a Sociopath. I'd also like to thank you for assuming that. Because I said the behavior indicates sociopathy,  that I was painting everyone who takes a risk as a sociopath.

I'd also really like to thank you breaking down for me what I spent 6 years studying professionally. 

Have I ever been held in care? Yes. I was really fucked up for many years after the incest I went through as a boy.  And I Am Not Projectiing my own past or damage onto a group. I DO know that if a man walked into a facility of professionals and states that he takes anon loads. Chances are a 5150 will be taken on that man. 

Oh, and while my examples were hyper focused, they still hit in the examples listed under categories under their Proper headings under ASPD.  Just saying.

Oh and by the way

Most CEO's Politicians and Actors are Sociopaths, without any criminal liability. 

But that is the fun of opinions, they're like assholes. Everyone's got them. You're welcome to yours.  

 

 

[Guest POZitiveBoyZ]

29 minutes ago, Kayne said:

Thank you for you r astut

First off, thank you for putting words in my mouth. I never called you, personally a Sociopath. I'd also like to thank you for assuming that. Because I said the behavior indicates sociopathy,  that I was painting everyone who takes a risk as a sociopath.

I'd also really like to thank you breaking down for me what I spent 6 years studying professionally. 

Have I ever been held in care? Yes. I was really fucked up for many years after the incest I went through as a boy.  And I Am Not Projectiing my own past or damage onto a group. I DO know that if a man walked into a facility of professionals and states that he takes anon loads. Chances are a 5150 will be taken on that man. 

Oh, and while my examples were hyper focused, they still hit in the examples listed under categories under their Proper headings under ASPD.  Just saying.

Oh and by the way

Most CEO's Politicians and Actors are Sociopaths, without any criminal liability. 

But that is the fun of opinions, they're like assholes. Everyone's got them. You're welcome to yours.  

 

 

Oh, gosh. This is a really typical behavior of hypocrites who is prefer to Guslighting and putting their fault and their issues to others. Classic psychology treatment method. Also, did some of you met this guy in person? Or, maybe, some of you has some of his medical documentation? Somebody has a special Masters Degree of psychology or psychiatry? I guess you know that spreading such jokes and gossips will help some of you to go to the jail, isn't?   

[Kayne]

2 minutes ago, POZitiveBoyZ said:

Oh, gosh. This is a really typical behavior of hypocrites who is prefer to Guslighting and putting their fault and their issues to others. Classic psychology treatment method. Also, did some of you met this guy in person? Or, maybe, some of you has some of his medical documentation? Somebody has a special Masters Degree of psychology or psychiatry? I guess you know that spreading such jokes and gossips will help some of you to go to the jail, isn't?   

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but...

There is nomdocumentation necessary.  My opinins are my own, and I don't need your validation, thank you.

Next this isn't a joke, or gossip I have no idea where that comes from. 

Lastly, I'm not judging anyone nor am I a hypocrite.  So... Yeah. That.

[Guest POZitiveBoyZ]

The problems is about that American fags can’t get what they want for the first time in their life. Especially if there is a “Fucking Russian skinny fem Bitch Bottom”

But trying to Gaslighting someone is not a good deal to some of you or to most of you. Take your wallets, buy some stuff and go to the College again to educate yourself in a good level. This should be a bigger thing in your life

The problem is about lack of education and lack of ability to understand that there’s a really fucking unapologetic bitch who’ll never be ready doing something for your fucking responsibility because of your rules and standards "There's the only Dom Top and Sub Bottom". Your "manliness and masculinity" is so much FRAGILE! And I broke it. Now your Queens feels too much frustration about that. Because they lose their authority. But unless society is not able to give an apology to someone who was bullying by with this fucking "mind game" by all of you so be sure I will do everything is possible then impossible and finally unbelievable to talk people around the World what is exactly about this LGBTQ community.  There’s no any other mental issues in my life. There’s a lot of issues which was becoming and promoting by those of you who thinks they are a Fucking God and Queen so they will started this “treatment” even just not being well informed about me. This calls “ We ourselves came up with problems for ourselves and were offended by ourselves” But the real truth is about there’s no any issues and problems. I’m just fighting with this fucking stupidity and showing to everyone how this game is looks like and how all of you looks like. Because it’s looks like some of your “community leaders” have to go to the College to educate themselves. So now all of you knows what kind of Bitch I am. If someone trying to broke something in my life I will Not Going to Keep Silence! I WILL FIGHT for MY TRUTH and MY RIGHTS! 

Edited October 3, 2019 by POZitiveBoyZ

[alwaysready]

 

I have a master's in counseling psychology, but I do not need what I learned there to tell me that sex is supposed to be consensual. you can claim that, sure it was consensual. he agreed. he did not ask; I did not tell. cool. but if you shoot your unmedicated poz seed into another man, I would not try to make excuses for why it is okay, or right, or....whatever. he has to live with the consequences if he converts; you have to live with yourself.

[Guest POZitiveBoyZ]

58 minutes ago, alwaysready said:

 

I have a master's in counseling psychology, but I do not need what I learned there to tell me that sex is supposed to be consensual. you can claim that, sure it was consensual. he agreed. he did not ask; I did not tell. cool. but if you shoot your unmedicated poz seed into another man, I would not try to make excuses for why it is okay, or right, or....whatever. he has to live with the consequences if he converts; you have to live with yourself.

To you and other fags well informed, I’m on ART medication Triumeq. I’m HIV positive by February 2007, so this is about 12 years. I’m Undetectable by May 2014 and still keeping this healthy condition. Also, I don’t have any STD’s and Hepatitis A/B/C negative cuz I had an immunization 💉 by Hepatitis A/B and get testing regularly every 3 months. If someone else wants to get a proof so I will be ready to show everyone is around my last blood work and which medication I’m taking to survive. But firstly, I have to take to everyone a one very simple advice. Spreading gossips and fals informations about medical conditions of someone is an awful and may be lead to court and then to the jail. Sooner or later I will found this pathetic jealous faggot who started with this war. If I has a balls to fight around these 2 fucking years so be absolutely sure I has a LOT OF POWER to do everything to punish every fucking pathetic jealous envy American fags for this “mind game” aka mental abuse and bullying 

[KYRiley]

On 4/28/2017 at 4:19 AM, punaman said:

I don't think it's right to stealth HIV on anyone. Yes, if you're barebacking, and I do, then you should know that one of these times you will get stealthed, it comes with the territory.  But I'd like to be told someone is poz and then let me decide if I want his cum inside me.  My b/f is poz, UD and has been fucking me raw for two years.  If he wasn't UD, I"d still take his raw loads and that would be my choosing, not someone stealthing me for kicks. 

👍

On 4/28/2017 at 5:16 AM, topstud127 said:

No. Especially when you're infecting someone. That's fucked up on a multitude of levels.

Otherwise, just to get your rocks off and you know you're "DDF", it's fairly inconsequential but its not okay. 

If someone can't fully consent and come to terms with whats happening, you shouldn't be sleeping together.

👍

On 4/28/2017 at 6:21 AM, barecub85 said:

Regardless of how "hot" you think it is, anyone who deliberately violates the conditions under which their partner agreed to have sex is an asshole and is committing sexual assault.

And just because this this is a site for guys who like breeding, doesn't mean that everyone here is only having sex with guys who also like breeding. If a guy tells you he wants you to use a condom and you don't want to use one, be a fucking adult and find someone else to have sex with. 

👍

On 4/28/2017 at 11:32 AM, einathens said:

no it isn't okay. 

if you're having unprotected sex with an unknown partner, and serostatus isn't discussed, that isn't stealthing. it's just situational ignorance.

if the condom fails without assistance, that isn't stealthing.

if you're having sex with someone and you've led them to believe that you're negative and/or that you're using an altered condom when in fact you aren't, that's stealthing.

you don't get to decide what your partner 'really' wants/needs/deserves.

there are plenty of guys out there actively looking for poz seed. forcing it on someone who doesn't want it is rape, in my opinion, and that is never okay.

I know politicians have had a field day on whether that falls under rape laws or not.  But, I'd wholeheartedly say, it's sexual assault, because you agreed to using a condom and never consented for it to be taken off

On 4/28/2017 at 1:15 PM, Guest zyx11 said:

I personally find stealthing to be an incredibly hot fantasy, but genuine, actual stealthing is very unethical in my opinion. Sex is a two-way exchange which requires the consent of both parties - one partner unilaterally deciding to change the terms of that sex without agreement from the other party (by breaking a condom, pulling it off, etc) is committing sexual assault. Deliberately infecting a partner or exposing them to STDs definitely increases the severity of this act, but either way, it's a non-consensual sexual act. It's definitely illegal.

Again, not sure if this place is the right place to discuss the subject, but I personally have started feeling some guilt about indulging in this fantasy in chat - even though I get turned on by the power dynamics (just like how people can have a rape fantasy but be sickened by actual rape), this is an unambiguous violation of consent in reality for me. I'm increasingly concerned that very fictional dirty chats or reposting condom-to-bb porn could be seen as an endorsement of this behavior. I know I can separate fantasy from reality, but I'm starting to wonder if others are doing the same...

👍

I too think it's fine in the fantasy world.  However, in the real world, is disgusting.

I think the question should to a potential, would you be okay with stealthing and RP it?

[ErosWired]

On 9/26/2019 at 8:43 PM, Kayne said:

You gotta be a sociopath to take anon loads in this day and age period  

With respect, the words from your mouth are those above. By their plain language, they convey the opinion that every person who takes anon loads is a sociopath. If this was not your intent, I invite you to rephrase; otherwise I stand by my common-sense rebuttal, as you are clearly incorrect.

[Pozlover1]

24 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

With respect, the words from your mouth are those above. By their plain language, they convey the opinion that every person who takes anon loads is a sociopath. If this was not your intent, I invite you to rephrase; otherwise I stand by my common-sense rebuttal, as you are clearly incorrect.

Agreed. Whatever your opinion about those who TAKE anon loads, the word “sociopath” is not correct. That would be a Stealther or someone in Government who tell lies to start wars because they were told to. 

[Kayne]

8 hours ago, ErosWired said:

With respect, the words from your mouth are those above. By their plain language, they convey the opinion that every person who takes anon loads is a sociopath. If this was not your intent, I invite you to rephrase; otherwise I stand by my common-sense rebuttal, as you are clearly incorrect.

I stand by my view. That's my opinion based upon the evidence and my own experience. It's a view filtered through my experiences. 

That said, we are all entitled to our views.  We ate free to disagree and I neither expect nor require anyone to change their view or behavior based upon my reading of the evidence.

If the shoemfits , wear it. 

[Brain&Brawn]

On 10/4/2019 at 4:00 AM, Kayne said:

I stand by my view. That's my opinion based upon the evidence and my own experience. It's a view filtered through my experiences. 

That said, we are all entitled to our views.  We ate free to disagree and I neither expect nor require anyone to change their view or behavior based upon my reading of the evidence.

If the shoemfits , wear it. 

You are entitled to your own view but not your own facts.