Do Tops have a right to bottoms’ asses?

[ErosWired]

On 12/4/2018 at 11:12 PM, flacogedor said:

I've read all the replies in this thread and haven't seen one person make the distinction between alpha an beta males, and that's extremely important in this scenario.

I’m not entirely sure I follow your point here and further down your post - I understand the dynamic you’re explaining between Alpha and Beta males (I think; Top thinking remains mysterious to me) but I’m not sure how that translates from the cumdump’s perspective.

From the perspective of the Alpha, you say that once he has chosen to fuck a bottom and cum inside him - essentially ‘marking’ him - he then owns perpetual right to fuck that bottom. But if the bottom’s belief is already that any man may fuck him at any time, the Alpha’s ‘marking’ is significant only to the Alpha, and perhaps to any other Alphas or Betas who subscribe to those distinctions.

What you suggest is that an absolute right can be obtained, but only for an individual Alpha. Granted it requires a certain level of aggression to be an Alpha, but that sounds more like arrogance, akin to pissing in a public park and then claiming it as your own.

If an Alpha sashayed into my room at the baths and bred me, and then informed me, “Your ass belongs to me now an no one else,” I would 1) be inclined to giggle, 2) thank him for the compliment but explain that my ass is public property dedicated to the common good and the enjoyment of everone, and 3) ask him to please step outside because others were waiting to fuck me. - or if no on was waiting, ask if he wanted another round...

[flacogedor]

2 hours ago, ErosWired said:

I’m not entirely sure I follow your point here and further down your post - I understand the dynamic you’re explaining between Alpha and Beta males (I think; Top thinking remains mysterious to me) but I’m not sure how that translates from the cumdump’s perspective.

From the perspective of the Alpha, you say that once he has chosen to fuck a bottom and cum inside him - essentially ‘marking’ him - he then owns perpetual right to fuck that bottom. But if the bottom’s belief is already that any man may fuck him at any time, the Alpha’s ‘marking’ is significant only to the Alpha, and perhaps to any other Alphas or Betas who subscribe to those distinctions.

What you suggest is that an absolute right can be obtained, but only for an individual Alpha. Granted it requires a certain level of aggression to be an Alpha, but that sounds more like arrogance, akin to pissing in a public park and then claiming it as your own.

If an Alpha sashayed into my room at the baths and bred me, and then informed me, “Your ass belongs to me now an no one else,” I would 1) be inclined to giggle, 2) thank him for the compliment but explain that my ass is public property dedicated to the common good and the enjoyment of everone, and 3) ask him to please step outside because others were waiting to fuck me. - or if no on was waiting, ask if he wanted another round...

Well then I guess we have a problem with the word "owning.". It makes ME "giggle" to hear someone say that their ass belongs to any man who wants to fuck it. That's not owning an ass, it's simply using it, as if I were to a bar and asked for a coffee and used a cup to drink it and then leave it there. It's also arrogant as a bottom to pretend to be of service to men when in fact all you want is simply to get as many cum as you can. That's not being a bottom, because all bottoms are subs in nature. And yes, tops ARE arrogant. Period.
I'm not here to tell others how to live their sexuality, I don't even care to do that either, but it would be useful to understand where each person comes from so then we don't experience this confusion and disagreement, at least not DURING sex.

[rtpbbcub]

On 12/4/2018 at 6:15 PM, ErosWired said:

One must meet certain qualifications to be a no loads refused bottom? You appear to have a set of criteria. There is an age limitation, you say? Please, enlighten us about all the necessaries.

In terms of where you are in the world and what laws apply to consent. A 13 year old (in many places) is no more consenting than a 75 year old in a coma. A 32 year old with severe mental impairment is not a consenting adult in some cases. Generally differentiating between desire and consent. All three may make statents or have desires that express consent (even before being in a coma or becoming severely mentally impaired) but that doesn't actually serve as consent in an individual that is not capable, legally, of consenting.

[ErosWired]

6 hours ago, flacogedor said:

It's also arrogant as a bottom to pretend to be of service to men when in fact all you want is simply to get as many cum as you can. That's not being a bottom, because all bottoms are subs in nature. And yes, tops ARE arrogant. Period.

Please don’t misunderstand me - I have no quarrel with arrogance or aggression in Tops. It’s a desirable trait, as far as I’m concerned. I’m not sure I understand how you mean that a bottom who is in it for the loads is arrogant for claiming to be a service bottom; such a bottom may be disingenuous, or selfish, or even dishonest about his motives, but perhaps you could elaborate on how you see it as arrogant.

Personally, I don’t measure success in loads collected. I measure it in Tops satisfied. There really, truly are service bottoms who are in it because we feel a sense of purpose in serving others - and I am one of them.

[flacogedor]

3 hours ago, ErosWired said:

I’m not sure I understand how you mean that a bottom who is in it for the loads is arrogant for claiming to be a service bottom; such a bottom may be disingenuous, or selfish, or even dishonest about his motives, but perhaps you could elaborate on how you see it as arrogant.

Here: "If an Alpha sashayed into my room at the baths and bred me, and then informed me, “Your ass belongs to me now an no one else,” I would 1) be inclined to giggle, 2) thank him for the compliment but explain that my ass is public property dedicated to the common good and the enjoyment of everone, and 3) ask him to please step outside because others were waiting to fuck me. - or if no on was waiting, ask if he wanted another round..."

Oh, and no Alpha would claim an ass at the baths. I already talked in a previous post about the problem of asses being bred by multiple Alphas. I honestly feel like you haven't met many Alphas, and that's why you create a topic asking this question or opening the discussion and why we don't understand each other. It almost feels like this thread is a cry for ownership. Which is not bad. But it speaks volumes about another, deeper issue: people are fucking more but connecting less. And Alphas are not measured by the amount of holes they fuck but the amount of holes they mark. I truly don't think the baths are a place for Alphas.

3 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Personally, I don’t measure success in loads collected. I measure it in Tops satisfied. There really, truly are service bottoms who are in it because we feel a sense of purpose in serving others - and I am one of them.

If it's not about the amount of loads collected and your purpose is to serve men, then you wouldn't be "inclined to giggle" if an Alpha bred you and claimed your ass for himself. And no one ever said that serving others was a walk in the park; you always have to sacrifice something.
But then again, no Alpha would claim an ass at a bathhouse.

[ErosWired]

1 hour ago, flacogedor said:

I honestly feel like you haven't met many Alphas, and that's why you create a topic asking this question or opening the discussion and why we don't understand each other.

That is entirely possible. While I have served a number of very aggressive and demanding Doms, none ever identified himself as an Alpha or described his role in the way you describe yours. I did not start this thread as a cry for ownership. I collar myself. I have been owned, but my Master’s desire to own me was limited to his experimentation - not the kind of desire to possess and control another that I think I understand you to mean that an Alpha feels.

In your view, what would a man you would consider an Alpha think of another man who took ownership of a bottom and then, rather than using the bottom for himself exclusively, shared the bottom with his friends, or whored the bottom out to strangers (for humiliation, because it amused him, etc.)?

I apologize if the tenor of the thread or my questions has offended you in any way - it sounds as though you hold your sexual philosophy as strongly as I do my own. Perhaps my tendency to broadcast my openness to serve everyone is the very reason I haven’t met many Alphas; they must simply find that I’m not what they’re looking for.

Edited December 7, 2018 by ErosWired

[tallslenderguy]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:12 PM, flacogedor said:

I guess the short answer to your question would be no, not all tops have the right to bottoms' asses, simply because absolutely nobody can deny each person's individuality and free will. That's where consent takes a major role, whether consciously or unconsciously, explicit or not.
Maybe we can get confused with bottoms who identify themselves as objects (garbage, either) for the mere pleasure of all men, but in this case I believe that the original free will was taken from them by a man, men, or someone else at an early developing stage, and that morphed their individuality into something else.
Having said that, I've read all the replies in this thread and haven't seen one person make the distinction between alpha an beta males, and that's extremely important in this scenario. Assuming there's consent from both ways (even Dom tops make a decision at some point in their lives to be dominant fuckers), only alphas will take the initiative and claim asses for themselves. If a man doesn't hunt for holes and take them for himself, then he's half a man, he's a beta. So don't confuse them and speak as if all tops were the same. We alphas can almost smell sluts from far away, so we can identify cumdumps when we see one; and if we want them, we take them.
Also, another important difference is, well, we're at a bareback website: cum. Willingly and vehemently injecting an ass (not a mouth) with our seed is how we OWN a bottom, how we acquire the right to them as holes for our needs. So basically we could say that, if there's consent, alphas (and not any regular guy claiming to be a top) will choose the cumdumps they want to own, but will only have the right to these holes once they breed them. Once an ass is bred, the alpha can claim it whenever he wants, and here there's no consent valid anymore.
Now the problem comes when a bottom is bred by many alphas, because his rightful owners could claim him at the same time, and that would be inconvenient to say the least, but that's another topic.

i read this this morning before i went to work,  and it had the effect of putting me in heat, like a pheromone of sorts.  i didn't have a chance to respond this morning because i had to get to work. i work 13 hours and the whole day, anytime i thought of this, it had the effect of turning me on.  i got home tonight, and the first thing i wanted to do was respond to this, and that's part of who i am as a bottom, as "responder."  i haven't read through any of the replies yet, i first wanted to respond to you. 

So much of what you say here resonates with me.  i'm a bottom and seem to have sub in me, but i do not  identify as "garbage."   i know for a fact there are Top men who would not take pleasure in that, and some who do.  One reason is "garbage" may not really show off who the top is,  like setting a diamond in a plastic setting.  i come from a conservative, religious background and was married to a woman. It took a long time for me to figure out and accept myself.  i do not try to conform to anyone's idea of who i should be. Also, i am not suggesting there is a right a wrong here, i think there are a lot of shades and variations of both top and bottom, dom and sub. For me, submitting is something i (always) give, it's never taken... which is not to suggest that the top always has to ask permission for every act. That's one of the great things about relationship to me, my position of submission is forged and deepened in relationship.  An example (and desire) i have used before is being available for my top, even when i am asleep.  As fun as it may sound on some levels, the idea of a stranger breaking into my house and raping me just doesn't work. I have a second degree black belt and would probably kick the hell out of that person, instinctively.  On the other hand, a top that i have a relationship with would get a very different response because i'd belong to him and i don't feel that belonging to a stranger. 

 i appreciate the distinction you make between alpha and beta males.  While i do not see it as a black or white thing, i definitely see differences between tops. One of the differences that is very meaningful for me is tops who are not only physically alpha but intellectually and emotionally as well. While we use terms taken from the animal kingdom to try and describe ourselves, people, in part,  differ from animals because of the intellectual and emotional components  we bring to relationship. For me, it is not only the cum that a top puts in me that makes me want to submit and become his, it's the man doing it.  i am the same way, from the bottom side, i.e., it's my hole he is using to  'breed' and 'own' me, not my "mouth." Not to say i don't suck cock, it's just not the same.  And for me, it's not just his cum, but what ever cums from his body (e.g., i feel impregnated by his piss too, if it's something he made with his body and wants to breed me with) For me, a top breeds and inseminates me with more that his physical essence, he also breeds me with his thoughts and emotions... it's hard to explain.

 For me, the ownership you speak of is like being impregnated, and a top can have more than his cock and cum to 'impregnate' and "own" me with. i had a top once who had me so intellectually and emotionally inseminated by him that just walking down the street, he reached over and nonchalantly put his hand in the back of my pants and ran his finger along his crack, and he owned me.  You see, i couldn't even write "my crack" because it didn't feel right.  He had me so thoroughly captivated that just that gesture made me want to be his, made me feel and think owned. i adored him and couldn't help it (nor did i want to help it).  That to me is the natural course of top/bottom , not a forced or manufactured thing. 

 

[flacogedor]

4 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

That is entirely possible. While I have served a number of very aggressive and demanding Doms, none ever identified himself as an Alpha or described his role in the way you describe yours. I did not start this thread as a cry for ownership. I collar myself. I have been owned, but my Master’s desire to own me was limited to his experimentation - not the kind of desire to possess and control another that I think I understand you to mean that an Alpha feels.

In your view, what would a man you would consider an Alpha think of another man who took ownership of a bottom and then, rather than using the bottom for himself exclusively, shared the bottom with his friends, or whored the bottom out to strangers (for humiliation, because it amused him, etc.)?

I apologize if the tenor of the thread or my questions has offended you in any way - it sounds as though you hold your sexual philosophy as strongly as I do my own. Perhaps my tendency to broadcast my openness to serve everyone is the very reason I haven’t met many Alphas; they must simply find that I’m not what they’re looking for.

Not all Alphas need to possess all asses, and if they are sexually active they couldn't possess them all even if they wanted. From my first post I meant that we Alphas acquire the RIGHT to possess an ass once we breed it. That ownership can be exercised at any time, but most probably we won't simply because there are way too many holes to mark and use.
Also, owning bottoms for experimentation is super common and an amazing experience, and I particularly enjoy whoring a sub with friends (now strangers? not really my cup of tea, but that's just me). By the way, in a group of Tops there can only be one Alpha; and if there happens to be more than one, I can assure you that the orgy will somehow be divided in at least two sub-groups.
The ownership lies in the right won by the Alpha and in its exercise for whatever reason he deems fit, and not on the desire of bottoms for cum. So, like you ask in the title of this thread, Tops (Alphas, not just any guy with a dick) have a right to bottoms' asses, but bottoms don't have a right to Tops' cum.
I think the fact that you hold a strong sexual philosophy is actually a good thing because if you intend to satisfy Alphas you need to have your shit together and compromise, so I actually prefer a personality like yours rather than an insecure bottom or a quitter. I would just keep thinking and rummaging about this (like I think you are, otherwise you wouldn't have created this thread in the first place)....... Just no fucking giggles around me.

[Guest neg4POZnw]

My personal belief as a bottom is that a Top (singular) does not have an exclusive right to a bottom's (singular) cunt. But All Tops have a right to use Any bottom's cunt. If they CLAIM that right.

Kinda why I now prefer being called a fag, faggot, slut, or whore more than a 'bottom.' And prefer Alpha, Man, Real Man, or Superior Man over 'Top.' 

Bottom/Top speak to sexual roles but not sufficiently to attitudes about Power, rights (of the Alpha) and duties/obligations (of the fag).

Just my personal take ?

[flacogedor]

14 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

i had a top once who had me so intellectually and emotionally inseminated by him that just walking down the street, he reached over and nonchalantly put his hand in the back of my pants and ran his finger along his crack, and he owned me.  You see, i couldn't even write "my crack" because it didn't feel right.

This.
Alphas are generally aggressive, but if they need to be that way just to exercise their power over a bottom, then they don't really have it (not the power nor the bottom).

PS: I love how you spell "i" every time.

[tallslenderguy]

12 minutes ago, flacogedor said:

This.
Alphas are generally aggressive, but if they need to be that way just to exercise their power over a bottom, then they don't really have it (not the power nor the bottom).

PS: I love how you spell "i" every time.

This guy was (i.e., "aggressive"), but intelligently, and even affectionately so. and he was remarkably powerful with/to me.  There are Tops who can fuck and breed with their words and method, and end up "marking and making my pussy" Theirs, without actually having physically fucked or bred me.  This Top owns me, even though He never actually put His literal cum inside of me (He was afraid to because i am poz).  i don't know how to explain it, but to this day, He "owns" me and i adore Him still. 

P.S. i love that You love that, it's a way of my putting my scent out there.

Edited December 7, 2018 by tallslenderguy

[tallslenderguy]

28 minutes ago, flacogedor said:

Also, owning bottoms for experimentation is super common and an amazing experience, and I particularly enjoy whoring a sub with friends (now strangers? not really my cup of tea, but that's just me). 

From the other end of the spectrum (i.e., as a bottom). i have fantasized about a top whoring me out, but when i fantasize about it, it's not just (or even mostly) about the loads i'd be getting in my hole, but about the excitement the Top would have "whoring me out." 

[BETABEAU]

We can argue about this all day long but we know damn well that they do

[bbpoznow]

some interesting comments from every one.  I get the impression that some think it  is a JOB to be able to satisfy a top. Why don't we all just  be what we are , a Bottom take  any load he wants  and a top takes any ass he can. 

It boils down to if the Bottom don't want to be fucked  or owned  well the top doesn't  get any .

Just adding a different slant on things  

[downtownswallow]

During the session my Top owns my holes.