Trump supporters?

[BootmanLA]

2 minutes ago, verbalBTTM said:

To quote Mark Twain "politicians are the lowest form of life"  from what i recall no movement on DOMA happened until the state's passed there own version. Once more than half of the union did SCOTUS chimed in

I don't believe that's an actual Twain quote. But regardless, it's not true. There are politicians who are scum, no doubt, and many are mediocre. But there are a number who are outstanding, and quite a few who are doing the best they can trying to serve a very divided country.

As for your recollections on DOMA: You're omitting quite a lot.

1. DOMA is the official acronym for the federal, not state, law. It provided two main things: that the federal government would not recognize (for the purpose of federal law) same-sex marriages performed in other states, and that if you got married in a state that did perform same-sex marriages, no other state was required to recognize that marriage. That was signed into law in 1996, before any state recognized same-sex marriage (some states were beginning to recognize civil unions).

2. A few states began to pass laws to specifically exclude same-sex marriages in those states, but the pace picked up when Massachusetts recognized them. starting in 2002. The biggest tranche of such laws passed in 2004 when Bush the Younger was running for re-election and needed some red meat for his base to feed on. 

3. The provision about the federal government not recognizing state-approved SSMs was struck down with the United States v. Windsor case, in which Edith Windsor, as widow of her NY-legally-recognized wife Thea Spencer, had to pay estate taxes on the entirety of Spencer's estate, whereas if Windsor had been a man married to Spencer, the estate would have been transferred tax-free. SCOTUS held that treating same-sex and opposite-sex marriages differently was unconstitutional. Notably, the Obama-Biden administration would not defend the federal government's official position that the law required the original taxation.

4. The other provision of DOMA - not requiring states to recognize SSM's from other states - was rendered moot by the Obergefell v. Hodges case, which held that states couldn't bar same-sex marriages at all. 

SCOTUS "chimes in" when someone files a lawsuit that makes its way up through the legal process (including appeals) and then SCOTUS chooses to take the case. They decide to hear less than 1% of the cases brought to them, and declining to hear a case does nothing to establish new law; it simply leaves in process the decision(s) below. But those decisions are typically only applicable within the jurisdiction of the court that rendered the decision.

[verbalBTTM]

2 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

I don't believe that's an actual Twain quote. But regardless, it's not true. There are politicians who are scum, no doubt, and many are mediocre. But there are a number who are outstanding, and quite a few who are doing the best they can trying to serve a very divided country.

As for your recollections on DOMA: You're omitting quite a lot.

1. DOMA is the official acronym for the federal, not state, law. It provided two main things: that the federal government would not recognize (for the purpose of federal law) same-sex marriages performed in other states, and that if you got married in a state that did perform same-sex marriages, no other state was required to recognize that marriage. That was signed into law in 1996, before any state recognized same-sex marriage (some states were beginning to recognize civil unions).

2. A few states began to pass laws to specifically exclude same-sex marriages in those states, but the pace picked up when Massachusetts recognized them. starting in 2002. The biggest tranche of such laws passed in 2004 when Bush the Younger was running for re-election and needed some red meat for his base to feed on. 

3. The provision about the federal government not recognizing state-approved SSMs was struck down with the United States v. Windsor case, in which Edith Windsor, as widow of her NY-legally-recognized wife Thea Spencer, had to pay estate taxes on the entirety of Spencer's estate, whereas if Windsor had been a man married to Spencer, the estate would have been transferred tax-free. SCOTUS held that treating same-sex and opposite-sex marriages differently was unconstitutional. Notably, the Obama-Biden administration would not defend the federal government's official position that the law required the original taxation.

4. The other provision of DOMA - not requiring states to recognize SSM's from other states - was rendered moot by the Obergefell v. Hodges case, which held that states couldn't bar same-sex marriages at all. 

SCOTUS "chimes in" when someone files a lawsuit that makes its way up through the legal process (including appeals) and then SCOTUS chooses to take the case. They decide to hear less than 1% of the cases brought to them, and declining to hear a case does nothing to establish new law; it simply leaves in process the decision(s) below. But those decisions are typically only applicable within the jurisdiction of the court that rendered the decision.

Sorry at work here & didn't reference my Blackstone library of case law, was shooting from the proverbial hip. It was a large number of states that passed those laws first before SCOTUS decided to hear those cases. It was a movement of people that came together to make us equally recognized before the law. The only real opposition was authoritarian religious minded people. We won the argument do to contract rights, first amendment & equal protection clause if I'm right. That was the general basis of the pro argument. The opposition argued discrimination in favor of there adherence to closely held beliefs on 1st amendment grounds. They lost, we won & that issue has been settled with a mountain of case law to maintain it forever. 

 

I might be off on Twain, it's been a while since i enjoyed his writings

[BootmanLA]

On 10/22/2020 at 6:39 AM, Lily95 said:

Actually there is pictures of him at a kkk rally speaking to kkk members and openly supporting them 

Gave you a couple of weeks to provide proof of this lie and - zip. Nada. Zilch. 

I'm officially calling it now: you lied here. Not surprising. 

[Guest beardedbastard]

On 10/23/2020 at 6:21 AM, rawTOP said:

This is  a false statement. Look at our experience here in NY with a Democratic governor and compare that to the red states that have followed Trump's advice. The differences are shocking. For example, North Dakota has an infection rate that's 13 times that of NY. Hillary's approach would have been much like Cuomo's approach or Canada's approach and a lot more people would be alive today if she were president. That's what your family is trying to say.

Here's a reputable site where you can get good data about the state of COVID in the US:

[think before following links] https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/

You’re speaking logic and sense and they aren’t a fan of that. 

[120DaysofSodom]

6 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

Just for the record Joe Biden voted for DOMA & DADT. Which made it illegal for homosexuals to have marriage recognized by the state & made the military able to dishonorably discharge a soldier for being gay. I don't care who you voted for but let's not paint Biden as the second coming of Christ. Let's leave the politics out of this sight and get back the debotchory of pig sluts. 

People are allowed to change. At least he has changed. Plus, Trump is a Nazi.

[BootmanLA]

8 hours ago, beardedbastard said:

You’re speaking logic and sense and they aren’t a fan of that. 

Also science and math, both of which are hard for Trumpanzees.

[verbalBTTM]

14 hours ago, beardedbastard said:

You’re speaking logic and sense and they aren’t a fan of that. 

It would appear to be triggering

[verbalBTTM]

11 hours ago, TwinkFoot said:

People are allowed to change. At least he has changed. Plus, Trump is a Nazi.

Trump is a capitalist, a Nazi is a National socialist which would be more inline with Bernie Sanders & I'm not calling senator Sanders a Nazi, however he is more of a communist lite

[verbalBTTM]

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Also science and math, both of which are hard for Trumpanzees.

Ahh yes an ad-hominem attack, the truest hallmark of a failed argument.

 

[120DaysofSodom]

5 minutes ago, verbalBTTM said:

Trump is a capitalist, a Nazi is a National socialist which would be more inline with Bernie Sanders & I'm not calling senator Sanders a Nazi, however he is more of a communist lite

Socialism isnt Naziism. In fact, Nazis imprisoned both socialists and communists, and Dachau Concentration Camp in 1933 is a prime example of where socialists and communists were targeted for their political ideology and imprisoned by Nazis almost exclusively. The reality is that the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party is no more a ridiculous, inaccurate portrayal of party politics than the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is a ridiculous portrayal of a completely authoritarian regime. After Hitler claimed absolute power through the Enabling Act, he set about outlawing all political parties. You were to be loyal to him. That is the complete opposite of socialism. Hitler was an avid reader of Friedrich Nietzsche, and subscribed to the idea of "ubermensch".

Furthermore, the USSR was not Marxism, and nothing at all like Democratic Socialism that Bernie Sanders preaches. You need to turn Faux news off and let the brainwashing stop and invest time and effort into reading books because if you have ever read the writings of Marx and Engels, while extremely boring, are filled with pearls of wisdom. The USSR was nothing like what they had envisioned. Marx believed that for a man to be free, he must already possess the basic necessities that are required for life, that is food and shelter, before he is able to concern himself with politics, the arts, and sciences. The idea that time affords man the ability to think can be proven when one looks at some of historys greatest thinkers, some of whom Marx greatly admired and to whom Engels alludes in his eulogy. Certainly, Darwin would never have been able to accomplish all that he did if he was forced to work manual labor in a factory from the moment he woke up in the morning to the moment he went to bed at night, all so to earn enough money to put food on the table and keep a roof over his head. If Darwin had been consigned to such a struggle it may have been another century or two before the so called theory of evolution by natural selection was discovered. The emancipation of humans from retrograde religious beliefs about their origins probably would have been delayed if the discovery of evolutionary theory been postponed. What Lenin and Stalin called a Communist revolution was the concentration of dictatorial power over the mass through forced labor, genocidal extermination and periodic purges of the controlling oligarchy. It was a failed system, and nothing at all, mind you, like Socialism, and neither was it Marxism.

Lastly, Trump I can argue is not even a capitalist. He is an oligarch, a plutocrat, a totalitarian dictator thug that thinks all people should capitulate to him, and is more like Adolf Hitler than his brainwashed cult would like to believe. Its alright though. The nightmare is nearly over. You can rise from the basement. The beatings have stopped. The deprogramming of your brainwashing can finally begin.

[verbalBTTM]

1 hour ago, TwinkFoot said:

Socialism isnt Naziism. In fact, Nazis imprisoned both socialists and communists, and Dachau Concentration Camp in 1933 is a prime example of where socialists and communists were targeted for their political ideology and imprisoned by Nazis almost exclusively. The reality is that the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party is no more a ridiculous, inaccurate portrayal of party politics than the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is a ridiculous portrayal of a completely authoritarian regime. After Hitler claimed absolute power through the Enabling Act, he set about outlawing all political parties. You were to be loyal to him. That is the complete opposite of socialism. Hitler was an avid reader of Friedrich Nietzsche, and subscribed to the idea of "ubermensch".

Furthermore, the USSR was not Marxism, and nothing at all like Democratic Socialism that Bernie Sanders preaches. You need to turn Faux news off and let the brainwashing stop and invest time and effort into reading books because if you have ever read the writings of Marx and Engels, while extremely boring, are filled with pearls of wisdom. The USSR was nothing like what they had envisioned. Marx believed that for a man to be free, he must already possess the basic necessities that are required for life, that is food and shelter, before he is able to concern himself with politics, the arts, and sciences. The idea that time affords man the ability to think can be proven when one looks at some of historys greatest thinkers, some of whom Marx greatly admired and to whom Engels alludes in his eulogy. Certainly, Darwin would never have been able to accomplish all that he did if he was forced to work manual labor in a factory from the moment he woke up in the morning to the moment he went to bed at night, all so to earn enough money to put food on the table and keep a roof over his head. If Darwin had been consigned to such a struggle it may have been another century or two before the so called theory of evolution by natural selection was discovered. The emancipation of humans from retrograde religious beliefs about their origins probably would have been delayed if the discovery of evolutionary theory been postponed. What Lenin and Stalin called a Communist revolution was the concentration of dictatorial power over the mass through forced labor, genocidal extermination and periodic purges of the controlling oligarchy. It was a failed system, and nothing at all, mind you, like Socialism, and neither was it Marxism.

Lastly, Trump I can argue is not even a capitalist. He is an oligarch, a plutocrat, a totalitarian dictator thug that thinks all people should capitulate to him, and is more like Adolf Hitler than his brainwashed cult would like to believe. Its alright though. The nightmare is nearly over. You can rise from the basement. The beatings have stopped. The deprogramming of your brainwashing can finally begin.

That's a nice uncited article you've pasted but dose not properly explain what the Nazi's were & how they governed especially economically. There was a reason why Hitler & Mussolini were allies, they both favored state control of private enterprise which is a form socialism. 

 

As far as your tirade at the end, really where to begin. of course he's a capitalist to deny that is beyond silly. A dictator, please cite examples where he has acted beyond his constitutional bounds. A plutocrat, he's not rich enough to be called that, most of his net worth is in fixed hard assets. Then we get to the core of your emotional argument of "his brainwashed cult"  i don't see Trump supporters physically attacking people for not agreeing with them or harass & intimidating others into reciting there chants. Furthermore i don't seem them having hysterical emotional outbursts over conflicting factual information.

 

As far as  "The deprogramming of your brainwashing can finally begin" it sounds like you wish to make those people conform to your world view or suffer the consequences of wrong think. What if they continue to reject your deprogramming efforts, what level of force are you willing to go along with to bring about your utopia. 

 

I remember defeating those same arguments that came from religious bigots that thought homosexuals can be forced to change, reprogrammed to be more inline with biblical teachings. 

 

 

In conclusion to quote. Nietzsche  "if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you"

[120DaysofSodom]

14 minutes ago, verbalBTTM said:

That's a nice uncited article you've pasted but dose not properly explain what the Nazi's were & how they governed especially economically. There was a reason why Hitler & Mussolini were allies, they both favored state control of private enterprise which is a form socialism. 

 

As far as your tirade at the end, really where to begin. of course he's a capitalist to deny that is beyond silly. A dictator, please cite examples where he has acted beyond his constitutional bounds. A plutocrat, he's not rich enough to be called that, most of his net worth is in fixed hard assets. Then we get to the core of your emotional argument of "his brainwashed cult"  i don't see Trump supporters physically attacking people for not agreeing with them or harass & intimidating others into reciting there chants. Furthermore i don't seem them having hysterical emotional outbursts over conflicting factual information.

 

As far as  "The deprogramming of your brainwashing can finally begin" it sounds like you wish to make those people conform to your world view or suffer the consequences of wrong think. What if they continue to reject your deprogramming efforts, what level of force are you willing to go along with to bring about your utopia. 

 

I remember defeating those same arguments that came from religious bigots that thought homosexuals can be forced to change, reprogrammed to be more inline with biblical teachings. 

 

 

In conclusion to quote. Nietzsche  "if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you"

Its not an article, its my own words. I took several elective courses in my undergrad on Marx and Nietzsche and received A's in all of them, thanks. I have read all of Marx and Engels and Nietzsche's works. But go ahead and deflect all you like if it makes you feel better.

[gwmxyz]

For me it was Trump's personal qualities (if that's the right word).  Apparently I would be a republican in US terms - I just couldn't stand the contempt he had for everyone around him, his not being arsed to find out anything about anyone else (at home or abroad) and the general whipping up of ill-will. I could just about deal with the invented facts and Thigh-land, but accusing everyone around him of being crooks, child-mos, cowards if it was a general etc is the behaviour of a w@nker.  I'm astonished at the number of people who think it's fine because he's on their "side".  I'm not sure he's on anyone's other than his  own - life's a power and personal wealth race and unless you've been President and own more golf courses, he's still winning that one.

My Chinese friend Sam will be sad though.  He loved Trump and was hoping he would lead the US into an abyss from which it would never recover, hastening China's lordship and superiority over everyone (as they are with the COVID - despite  the US starting and deviously planting in China in case you were wondering).

 If the proverbial martian were to land, totalitarianism, I could see Sam winning (except on COVID).  Xi Jinping at least knows how to behave, they all love him, they love each other too and they've seen their living standards rise by more any other regime in history - and who gives a stuff about democracy as long as China's No 1? Plus the Chinese cities all flash at night in this impressive if slightly strange and pointless way. 

Particularly pointless if you've come for a fuck and would rather look at the porn.

[BootmanLA]

5 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

Trump is a capitalist, a Nazi is a National socialist which would be more inline with Bernie Sanders & I'm not calling senator Sanders a Nazi, however he is more of a communist lite

Political and economic systems are not entirely overlapping. One can be a fascist capitalist, one can be a fascist socialist. One can be a democratic capitalist or a democratic socialist.

Trump is simply a con man and a tax cheat. 

[BootmanLA]

3 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

That's a nice uncited article you've pasted but dose not properly explain what the Nazi's were & how they governed especially economically. There was a reason why Hitler & Mussolini were allies, they both favored state control of private enterprise which is a form socialism.

Most of Hitler & Mussolini's commandeering of private enterprise came as part of the war effort. In that respect, the US, UK, etc. were no different during the war. It's what nations at war DO. No reputable historian classifies Hitler as a "socialist", least of all because of his appropriation of the term "socialist", any more than East Germany or North Korea were/are classified as democracies simply because one was the "German Democratic Republic" and the other is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".

3 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

As far as your tirade at the end, really where to begin. of course he's a capitalist to deny that is beyond silly. A dictator, please cite examples where he has acted beyond his constitutional bounds.

One could cite approximately a hundred examples of regulations and executive orders of his being struck down on both statutory and constitutional grounds. One could cite the myriad court cases he's lost trying to keep records of his administration hidden. Those are hallmarks of dictatorship, as are his incessant demands for personal loyalty. Even now, as a lame duck president, he's firing officials who he perceived as "insufficiently loyal" during the election, even though they will all be out of a job soon along with him. And he tried, though too late, to shift a huge portion of the classified civil service - the permanent workforce of subject-matter experts who serve EVERY administration - into the category of "fire at will" - again, so he could purge anyone he suspected of disloyalty.

3 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

A plutocrat, he's not rich enough to be called that, most of his net worth is in fixed hard assets.

Most of his net worth is a mirage. As a private company, he doesn't have to disclose audited financial statements to the public like a public corporation would. But whenever the press gets hold of documentation as to his income, expenses, and assets and liabilities, they show he's worth far less, and makes far less, than he pretends. That's been his MO his entire life, from when he used to claim to own all the apartment buildings his dad actually held, in order to appear to be a billionaire long before he was worth that, if ever.

3 hours ago, verbalBTTM said:

i don't see Trump supporters physically attacking people for not agreeing with them or harass & intimidating others into reciting there chants. Furthermore i don't seem them having hysterical emotional outbursts over conflicting factual information.

Then you're simply not paying attention. Odd how even the Trump Justice Dept. keeps bringing charges against Trump-supporting "Proud Boys" and "Boogaloo Boys" and other groups for inciting riots at what had been peaceful BLM protests - riots they try to pin on the BLM supporters. As for hysteria, call it whatever you want, but they're still rejecting all sorts of scientific and physical evidence.