When does transvestite fetish turns into Trans Identity?

[hungry_hole]

During my many visits to bathhouses I've run into all kinds of guys wearing their favorite fetish wear like sexy shorts, leather, etc, and occasionally guys who's fetish is to wear women's clothing. 

My questions is, how did a fetish transform into the Trans Movement? Isn't Trans just another fetish?

[120DaysofSodom]

My assumption is that it is how the individual chooses to identify themself.

[Close2MyBro]

To me the whole "trans" thing is just another trend for most people. I'm sure there are a select few who honestly feel like they're in the wrong body, but there are also a lot of insecure people who feel they have to be different, or they crave negative attention, so they take it to an extreme and decide to change their sexual identity.

[ObristInvcta]

There is a very big difference between a Transvestite (a person who has a fetish for clothing of the opposite gender) and a person who is Trans. Crossdressing didn't "evolve" into the trans movement implying that it did basically discounts all of the people in history who are trans (of the few that we know of, and even then it isn't well recorded), and being trans is not in any way a fetish. 

A fetish is a form of sexual desire where personal gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object or thing. A person who is trans doesn't transition because it gives them some form of sexual gratification, they do it because their body doesn't match up with their gender identity, creating great amounts of dysphoria and leading to other mental health issues if left untreated.

[hungry_hole]

17 hours ago, Close2MyBro said:

To me the whole "trans" thing is just another trend for most people.

I agree. People no longer want to deal with their personal emotional issues and instead blame some weird situation for their emotional turmoil. I say weird because a man saying "I feel like a woman" doesn't make sense. What the hell is "feeling like a woman"? I'm a man and I would have difficulties explaining what feeling like a man is. Rather than dealing with childhood issues it's seems easier to attach yourself to some identity and then blame any personal problems on trans-phobia.

Following Trans logic,  short people could say "I was born in the wrong body because I feel like a tall person". Unless for ambiguous genitalia people have to accept their assigned gender.

There is a tendency to equate homosexuality with Transsexualism but there is no comparison. The Transition requires a medical procedure and hormones, something totally unnatural. Homosexuality requires nothing.

Edited December 21, 2020 by hungry_hole
typo

[Chubpussy]

Because it’s not your lived experience it is a trend? How offensive. 

[hungry_hole]

9 hours ago, Dirrtyboi said:

Because it’s not your lived experience it is a trend? How offensive. 

If you are referring to my answer then I think it's a trend because many aspects of the Trans movement don't make sense for the reasons that I have already explained. If you disagree with any part of my explanation then go ahead and tell me what of what I said you disagree and why you disagree. Being offended is not valid in a debate.

[BootmanLA]

3 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

If you are referring to my answer then I think it's a trend because many aspects of the Trans movement don't make sense for the reasons that I have already explained. If you disagree with any part of my explanation then go ahead and tell me what of what I said you disagree and why you disagree. Being offended is not valid in a debate.

What's offensive is assuming your own lived experience is superior to, and better informed than, those of other people - ie dismissing their life experiences as merely "a trend".

This is exactly what straight people did with gay people for centuries - denying that we could be anything other than "deviants" who "chose" a "lifestyle" that was sinful, criminal, whatever - all because THEY couldn't envision THEMSELVES as innately interested in the same sex and therefore it couldn't be a valid identity issue for anyone else.

Your flippant dismissal of trans people as "saying 'I feel like a woman'" tells me you don't actually know, or at least have never had any serious discussions with, any trans people. You might try educating yourself on them and their experiences before you shoot your mouth off with such bigoted, ill-informed crap.

[badubydo]

A transvestite does not, nor will ever be related to trans-identity. 


Transgenderism is a real thing. I have a brother-in-law who is transgender (ftm), and me being an out Bi-sexual male in my family, he is one person I can talk to if I ever need to.

 

To the guys saying being trans is just a trend is fucking ludicrous and a slap to the face of the trans-community.

Now, do I believe that we need to be extremely careful with branding young children as trans because a boy wants to play with a vacuum? Or a girl likes to play in the dirt? Absolutely. But to say it’s a trend is ridiculous 

[tj87]

1 hour ago, badubydo said:

A transvestite does not, nor will ever be related to trans-identity. 

Terrible timing as my newspaper reveals that Eddie Izzard, former transvestite comedian has now come out as trans.

[tj87]

17 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

Lots of stuff.

Dear Hungry,

I can understand where you're coming from, but I do disagree with a lot of what you say. The trans movement has been overwhelmed with the wrong sort of support to fight for equality and the whole thing has got hung up on the non-issue of gender; a term that has zero real world use, other than (now) to divide and label people further into subgroups.

Being trans definitely isn't a fetish, though because it resembles similarities with transvestism, makes it more complex. The easiest way to sum it up as:

If you're Trans, the sight of yourself in the mirror - the sex that you've been biologically assigned, is so juxtaposed to what your brain expects (a form of body dysmorphia) that it causes extreme anxiety and depression - and an inability to function in daily life - from the moment you become sexually aware or maybe even before. There's a long process to identify these cases involving lots of therapy and counselling before treatment is offered - the treatment in these cases is to help these people transition from their assigned sex to the sex their brain identifies with, which alleviates the anxiety somewhat and allows them to live as they choose  - and everyone should be able to live a life free from constant internal (or external) torment.

Although I don't buy into your logical argument about short people feeling/identifying as tall (this is an argument that a lot of transphobia is based around) all I would say is; there's centuries of case study to validate the trans movement and no such evidence for the trans verticlism.

There's another issue though; the conflagration of gender and sex. "feeling like a man/woman" And this is where I feel you're vaguely heading into territory that I agree with. The conflagration of sex and gender.

Sex is the biological term that divides our species along sexual characteristics - and from a scientific perspective, there are only two.
Gender, which some people use to mean sex, but really means the collection of ideas that go together with our sex - masculine and feminine.

As gay men, many of us are forced (from an early age) to question what it is to be a man, Personally, I quickly dismissed the notion of gender stereotypes in favour of a more nuanced, fluid identity that better takes into account the mix and match approach that most gay men all take. This makes the issue of gender entirely is a nonstarter. I don't consider gender in my daily life, i don't think in the limited terms of masc and fem. I'm a burly guy with a beard and tits, who loves to cook and care for people and take as much cock as possible - what gender do I confirm to? Who cares. If asked - I would consider myself a man (sex) - but no one's going to ask me. I straddle bits from both genders, just as I straddle the big meaty cock of my hairless skinny twink neighbour, the artist with the long red hair, who is all dom in the sack... 

If you're transitioning, and your sex is more difficult to identify, then I can understand that the concept of being one sex/gender may be a painful topic that is alleviated by the creation of non-binary or third gender. But this is no-longer a trans issue and anyone can be non-gendered, third gendered etc, and it has nothing to do with sex or transitioning and is detrimental to the trans movement. Co-opted by people who insist there are a myriad of genders - and we must learn and label each one (and each other) rather than the simpler and more reasonable argument that gender is of no importance at all.

I met a non-binary activist last year who spent years campaigning to get the addition of X labeled in contracts and passports under gender so you can be identified as Male, Female or as X, which some countries have already adopted. My suggestion is - in the digital age of biometrics - why not just remove all the gender categories? What relevance does your gender have on your ability to buy a house or enter a country? 

And it's easy for young people to get swept up in the gender-trend - part of growing up is to figure out who you are and try out different allegiances, and that's fine - what's less fine is that it has now become dogma.

But this is different to trans. Trans people make up a very small minority of the population, treatment helps and all any of us need to know is trans men (women who now live as men) or trans women (men who now live a woman) just want to feel normal, live in peace and be left alone but will forever go through life wondering if they pass for their chosen identity, which is a struggle I can't begin to imagine.

So they deserve our support.

[Guest hungandmean]

20 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

I agree. People no longer want to deal with their personal emotional issues and instead blame some weird situation for their emotional turmoil. I say weird because a man saying "I feel like a woman" doesn't make sense. What the hell is "feeling like a woman"? I'm a man and I would have difficulties explaining what feeling like a man is. Rather than dealing with childhood issues it's seems easier to attach yourself to some identity and then blame any personal problems on trans-phobia.

Following Trans logic,  short people could say "I was born in the wrong body because I feel like a tall person". Unless for ambiguous genitalia people have to accept their assigned gender.

There is a tendency to equate homosexuality with Transsexualism but there is no comparison. The Transition requires a medical procedure and hormones, something totally unnatural. Homosexuality requires nothing.

Comments like these - shit about it being unnatural... this is the SAME rhetoric that was and is used against gay people. Being gay exists within nature, and so does being intersexed, and trans. Scientifically this is just a fact. Many animals out there, without any intervention can be both genders, switch genders, or not fit within the boxes of XX or XY. Anything beyond an elementary school education confirms this.

I'm going to let a much smarter person than me say the rest; Margaret Atwood: 

“You can believe all you like that trans people aren’t people, but it happens not to be a fact. It is not true that there are only two boxes. So the two questions to ask about anything are: Is it true? And is it fair?

“So if it’s not true that there are only two gender boxes and gender is fixed and immutable, then is it fair to treat trans people as if they’re not who they say they are?”

//

Treating trans people with respect costs you nothing. And the people who oppose gay rights have a vested interest in turning us against each other. Gay men like you are the weakest links in our community, because you willingly turn against some of the most vulnerable people in our community. Shameful.

SHAMEFUL.

[Cumfilledbottomboi]

Trans people have always felt trapped. Even Eddie Izzard. She did the transvestite stuff as a way to be a version of who she wanted to be in public. I am a submissive bottom who “feminizes” my cock at times. I even love to wear some women clothing, like leggings and panties. But those are both extremely comfortable to me. I’ve never once considered myself the wrong gender and never will. I am and have always been a gay man. My cousin (MTF) has always been a woman trapped in a man’s body. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Cumfilledbottomboi

[hungry_hole]

5 hours ago, hungandmean said:

Comments like these - shit about it being unnatural... this is the SAME rhetoric that was and is used against gay people.

Having someone injected hormones into their body is not something I would call "natural".  Hormones and other substances are banned in sports because you are no longer competing with the "natural" ability.

In the case of homosexuality calling it unnatural was not appropriate because no hormones or other drugs were required. Just start fucking!

[hungry_hole]

8 hours ago, tj87 said:

Terrible timing as my newspaper reveals that Eddie Izzard, former transvestite comedian has now come out as trans.

In my experience men wearing women's clothes is just men having fun with a fetish., They feel hotter dressed as women, which makes it a fetish. For me bareback is a fetish and in bathhouses I've worn slutty shorts to feel hotter, just a fetish.

In terms of the men who feel they are women, I would still like to know what "feeling like a woman" is. Can anybody explain that to me?

My hunch is that the men who "feel like a woman" are men who want to be a sex object, which is the way men see women.  This guy Bruce Jenner is the perfect example of this. After 3 marriages, 4 children, Olympic success in men's athletics, he announces that he's now a she. I think my hunch was confirmed with Bruce Jenner when the first picture after transition was of a sexy old woman trying to be a sex object. Pathetic.

I remember reading that Bruce never had sex with men because, as he explained, I'm straight. Instead of trying to see if he could be a sex object for men, he has never tried sex with men and prefers to "become" a woman to try to be a sex object. He would have had more fun with guys.