Read This! Significant Change In Rules Effective 3/1

[rawTOP]

This past fall I extended the rule against promoting harm to a real person to cover harm to the community and applied it to political discussions where people were expressing support and encouraging others to vote for political candidates that had a track record of harming our community.

That policy of not allowing things that harm our community is being expanded in some rather significant ways. Specifically…

 

➤ Certain types of AIDS Fetish are being BANNED

What is still allowed is expressing that you find "AIDSy" looking guys hot. Saying you think they're hot harms no one, and after everything those guys have gone through, it probably helps them to know people still find them sexually attractive.

What is being banned is encouraging other people to progress to stay off meds so long that they progress to AIDS. I know many of you didn't live through the AIDS epidemic, but it was truly horrible. I cared for my lover as he died of AIDS. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone - even the experience of being a caregiver was pretty horrible. There is a huge difference between being HIV positive and having AIDS. You can live a reasonably healthy life and have a completely normal life expectancy being poz. But the same is not true once you progress to AIDS. Once you progress to AIDS your life expectancy goes down and your quality of life can completely plummet.

In case you don't know, an HIV positive person is considered to have AIDS if they get one of a number of opportunistic infections, or when their CD4 ("t-cell") count drops to 200 (or sometimes 250 - depending on the standard used). Doctors will want you to do on meds before you CD4 drops below 500. But then there's a gray area between ~350 and 500 which is also relatively safe, though you do up your risk of complications slightly.

This ban also applies to encouraging people to become highly drug resistant. Since that's another clear path to AIDS.

Simply put, wanting to progress to AIDS or become highly drug resistant is a form of self harm that's borderline suicidal. Encouraging someone to progress to AIDS or become highly drug resistant borders on encouraging them to kill themselves. It's not OK.

 

➤ HIV Fetish, Bug Chasing & Gift Giving are still very much ALLOWED

As I mentioned there's a huge difference between being poz and having AIDS.  So I have no problem with guys who want to become poz. Simply put, it's right for some guys. I also have no problem with gift giving. Thanks to PrEP, gift givers can't harm guys who don't want to be harmed. And most guys have at least two years before their CD4 drops below 500, so there is a period of time when they can be a gift giver without risking their own health.

But be careful…  do not use the word AIDS when you mean HIV or poz. "I wanna give you HIV" or "I wanna poz you" are both fine. "I wanna give you AIDS" is not OK. Fetishizing poz or toxic loads is fine. Fetishing AIDS loads is not OK. Learn to say what you mean. Words matter!

 

➤ STI Fetish is BANNED

Fetishizing STIs other than HIV is also banned. STIs are a fact of life if you bareback, but we want to keep them to a bare minimum since they're a literal pain in the butt (or dick). Sex is supposed to be fun, but when guys stop going to bathhouses and the sex parties because they keep getting STIs when they go – that harms our "sexual ecosystem". Big crowds at bathhouses and sex parties helps everyone. It's more fun for us, and more profitable for the bathhouses and sex clubs.

 

➤ These bans apply to fiction as well as real life situations

Fantasizing about things often turns into real-life behavior, so the bans apply to fictional stories as well.

 

➤ Generally, things that do significant harm to the community are BANNED

Basically I'm banning anything that causes permanent, significant harm to individuals or significant harm to the community as a whole. That said, there's a lot of gray area. In the gray area if it's harm to a real person it will be more likely to trigger an infraction.

So for example - a bottom is getting spit roasted and the top fucking him slips him a booty bump without him knowing. Since drugs wear off after a few hours, that's not permanent harm. In a fictional story that would be allowed provided the story doesn't progress to him becoming a drug addict (which would be significant harm). But encouraging someone to do that to a real person - that wouldn't be allowed.

Or another example - castration. If a bottom is considering castration and you encourage them to go through with it - it all depends on how you encourage them. If you encourage them to take months to fully think it through, and then find a qualified doctor to do the procedure - that would be fine. If you encourage them to take a less careful course of action - that would be a problem and would get an infraction.

 

➤ The stories of victims are still very much allowed

Victims are always allowed to tell their stories provided they state the abuse factually and don't overly fetishize the abuse. They can even say that since the abuse they've gotten turned on by it and seek it out. Though there is the risk of that going too far into fetishizing the behavior. So tread carefully there.

 

Why I'm implementing the new policy

Recently here and on Twitter I've been seeing a lot of AIDS and STI fetish and I've found it deeply disturbing. Simply put, it's a level of harmful that I haven't seen before. The bug chasing back in the late 90s (post ARVs) and early 00s would have violated these new policies, but it was different back then. There was this immense fear of becoming poz combined with the realization that sooner or later bottoms especially would probably become poz. So bug chasing "got it over with". From that point of view the improvement to the person's mental health probably balanced out the risk to their physical health. And with the advent of PrEP it's a huge step for some guys to  come to the realization that they want to be poz, then choose to go off PrEP, and then actually get pozzed. To put it in simple terms it seems to be a tribal thing for many of them. Belonging to a tribe can have an upside, and that process doesn't harm anyone else. But AIDS fetish and STI fetish cause significant harm with zero upside. They're pure harm. I don't want this site to be the catalyst for that type of behavior.

Implementation of the new policy

For the next week if you violate the new policy you'll just get a warning. After that there will be an infraction. If you see old posts that violate the new rules, please report them and a moderator will do one of three things: 1) edit them so they comply, 2) add a note that posts like that are no longer allowed, or 3) hide the post or thread if the violation is serious enough and not easily remedied via editing.

 

Confused?

If you're confused as to whether something is allowed under the new policy, I constructed a series of questions that you go through to figure out if it's banned or allowed… https://breeding.zone/topic/64867-read-this-significant-change-in-rules-effective-31/?do=findComment&comment=683626

 

[hairyone]

A very well-thought policy. Thank you, rawTOP.   👍

[alwaysready]

i agree. all that makes sense.

[demonicpup]

Raw Top, this is certainly your site and you have the right to do with it as you please, however, one critical thing which you might have missed is the federal and medical definition of an AIDS diagnosis.

As you state, "In case you don't know, an HIV positive person is considered to have AIDS if they get one of a number of opportunistic infections, or when their CD4 ("t-cell") count drops to 200 (or sometimes 250 - depending on the standard used)."  This is not fully accurate. It can also be a combination of both infections and CD4 count. Under the CDC rules adopted years ago once these criterion are met, the individual has an AIDS diagnosis. 

Further, this diagnosis is PERMANENT.

I had been diagnosed with Pneumocystis Jirovecii (a fungal pneumonia) and 3 other opportunistic infections which did not show physically. I was hospitalized. However, at that moment I was given an AIDS diagnosis, which would NEVER change, even when I was undetectable. All local, state, and federal medical paperwork will show that I have AIDS.

"The CDC has also developed a list of opportunistic infections (OIs), cancers, and conditions that are considered AIDS-defining conditions (see below). If you live with HIV and one or more of these infections or conditions, you have a diagnosis of AIDS, no matter what your CD4 count is or how it changes in the future. This does not necessarily mean you are sick or will get sick in the future. It is just the way the public health system counts the number of people who have had advanced HIV disease ( [think before following links] https://www.thewellproject.org/hiv-information/aids-defining-conditions#:~:text=AIDS stands for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. AIDS,a CD4 cell count of 200 or less)

From the Dr. Bob Frascino, via The Body: "A CD4% less than 14% is an AIDS-qualifying condition, even if the absolute CD4 count is still above 200. Consequently yes, you do have AIDS. Does it make any difference? No, not really. HIV disease comprises a spectrum from the early, often asymptomatic stage all the way to the end stage and death. The term "AIDS" was coined and developed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) early in the course of the epidemic to help track the spread of the illness. "HIV positive" was not a reportable condition until recently; however, AIDS has been for quite some time. (See below.) Once an AIDS diagnosis is made the diagnosis is not reversible even if your counts improve on combination antiretroviral therapy ([think before following links] https://www.thebody.com/article/can-person-go-aids-back-hiv )

Under the federal guidelines, and by law, I have AIDS, and anything mentioned about me (body part or secretion) is therefore termed within those confines.

Ethically it is something which is hard to deal with for many individuals. I completely understand, given your personal experience and what we saw and experienced (and, I do get you there - sans discussion, but I do get you, knowing that circumstances for each individual is different... I get you). Once you have this diagnosis, there is nothing which can be done to remove it from one's medical history.

I know exactly where you are coming from and I completely respect your reasoning and your thoughts within these confines. Those years of what we all experienced and saw shall be indelibly etched in our psyche and hearts.

However, I would be remiss to not state that there area no medical or legal difference in the ideas of allowing HIV Fetish, Bug Chasing & Gift Giving and the banning of the usage of the phrasing or writing of the word "AIDS." Because, there are millions of people, like me, walking around and taking meds, and have a high CD4 count but still are considered as a "person with AIDS" or under federal law and medical guidance, I am a patient with AIDS.

Yes, I do agree that words have power. It is just, and let me say again... I GET IT! I DO UNDERSTAND.. THE GODS IN THE PANTHEON, I UNDERSTAND... but the splitting of semantics does not change the fact that for all intents and purposes, in my case, and the case of millions of others, if I was to deal with a legal issue, there is no difference in the words.

 

 

[Guest]

STI ban kinda sucks. I wasn't aware bugchasing only related to HIV, and while I want to catch HIV later on in life, as someone who's never had STDs in my life I'd like to catch a couple that aren't as permanent as HIV is, just for the experience of having something before I'm at the point of being ready for HIV. Shame that's something that won't be allowed here. Oh well.

 

I'm not one of the bathhouse crowd so this site isn't really for me anyway I guess.

[rawTOP]

@demonicpup I know exactly what you’re saying. For brevity I simply said that OIs were one of the criteria for having AIDS. But the fact remains that an AIDS diagnosis is meaningful because your future medical condition is significantly more challenged. Guys are encouraging other guys to “go there” and it’s not healthy. 

I understand someone like you can be healthy after an AIDS diagnosis, but I want people to be more proactive than that. I don’t want this site to give the impression that having AIDS should be some sort of goal guys should work towards. But once you’re “there”, I also don’t want you to feel like your life is over. Hence the continued acceptance of finding “AIDSy” guys as sexy. 

[rawTOP]

@Sum1 — trust me, having gonorrhea sucks. Getting syphilis is even worse. You’re not missing anything. Been there done all that far too many times. 

[smokey1121]

I wanted to thank you Rawtop for making this new rule 

[pervinmt]

Just want some clarification for the grey areas. As far as fiction goes, is stealthing an unknowing bottom still acceptable? A lot of my stories as well as other people's contain forced/pozzing/converting fantasies for unwilling/unknowing bottoms, often leading to them becoming sick. Is this considered no longer acceptable?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rawTOP said:

@Sum1 — trust me, having gonorrhea sucks. Getting syphilis is even worse. You’re not missing anything. Been there done all that far too many times. 

Maybe, you've been around a lot longer than I have, and as such, have experienced a whole lot more. I dunno, the risk of catching something is the whole reason I bareback in the first place, otherwise I'd just wear condoms. Actually, I'd probably abstain from sex altogether just because I don't find the act of sex on it's own all that fun. Though that's just me, and again, I don't think I'm this site's target audience, and that's cool. Same as being an outlier to anything, you have the best luck when your interests are the most common wherever you happen to be. 

 

Cheers for the advice either way.

[polyglutton]

Thank you. 

[polyglutton]

1 hour ago, pervinmt said:

Just want some clarification for the grey areas. As far as fiction goes, is stealthing an unknowing bottom still acceptable? A lot of my stories as well as other people's contain forced/pozzing/converting fantasies for unwilling/unknowing bottoms, often leading to them becoming sick. Is this considered no longer acceptable?

These stories really turn me on and would hate to see them go, but it's not something I would do in real life. 
 

I don't love the fact that the after effect of my being sexually assaulted ended up with me eroticising this, but it is what it is. This is the only place I can come and not feel shame for being turned on by it. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by polyglutton

[rawTOP]

1 hour ago, pervinmt said:

Just want some clarification for the grey areas. As far as fiction goes, is stealthing an unknowing bottom still acceptable? A lot of my stories as well as other people's contain forced/pozzing/converting fantasies for unwilling/unknowing bottoms, often leading to them becoming sick. Is this considered no longer acceptable?

HIV fetish is fine. It’s AIDS fetish that’s being banned. So fictional stealthing for HIV infection is still OK (the bottom should have been on PrEP). 

[cumslutfuckpig]

Kudo's, RT.  

Edited February 22, 2021 by neg4charged
omg i need to say less pretty much all the time.

[Hintyt]

Does this apply to those discussing choices one makes for them self?  If a member with full-blown AIDS announced their decision to stop taking medication, would that be banned?

This is really confusing.