Would I eventually become poz, sooner or later?

[concerned1]

For five years (between 2013 and 2018), I was a bareback top who fucked literally so many random, anonymous strangers (I have no idea how many, but I'd say between 100 and 250) in a variety of places including cruising areas, gay bathhouses ("saunas" as we call them in the UK), sex clubs, darkrooms, hotel rooms and in people's own homes such as private apartments and houses. I literally did not go to a sexual health clinic for a test once during those five years of plentiful random, anon, bareback fucking.

I had an immense and overwhelming fear of going for a test, because I didn't think I would be able to cope with a HIV positive result. I was so convinced that I most likely had HIV and I didn't want to know. I was scared. I was terrified. So I decided to just not know my status and I continued to fuck raw with lots of random strangers I met through Grindr, at the cruising grounds, the saunas, sex clubs, etc.

When I did one day in 2018 finally decide to go and get tested, the result for HIV came back negative. I was blown away. I just simply couldn't believe it. Just how was it possible that I had fucked so many people raw, and managed to avoid HIV ? Just how was that possible? I thought it must have been a mistake. Maybe the result was a false negative or maybe someone in the lab got my results mixed up with someone else's .... I had to be HIV positive, surely? There was no way I could be negative - I'd fucked so many people, and I am uncut which would increase my risk significantly. It took me a while to accept that the result was correct. So even though I had barebacked for five years with hundreds of random anon guys, and despite being uncut, I had managed to swerve out the way of HIV somehow. 

Not only that, but I didn't have any other STI. Everything came back clear.

After this test, I decided to get tested regularly and in 2019 I went onto daily PrEP through the PrEP Impact Trial that had been rolled out in the UK. I would test every 3 months. I did end up getting positive test results  for gonorrhea (on several occasions!), chlamydia (also on more than one occasion) and also Syphilis. To this day I have managed to avoid HIV thanks to PrEP, but I will never understand how I managed to avoid it during those five years of barebacking so many people between 2013 and 2018.

Does anyone here know enough about HIV and HIV transmission to be able to explain to me how I managed to avoid infection during that time, despite engaging (on hundreds of occasions)  in very high-risk behaviour? I am genuinely so curious as to how I avoided HIV during that time.

I should add that during those five years when I barebacked and didn't get tested, PrEP was not yet available (at least not widely) in the UK as it is now. So hardly anybody would have been on PrEP then, which makes it even more surprising that when I got tested at the end of the five years my result for HIV and all STIs was negative.

 

 

 

 

[concerned1]

I forgot to ask, would I have eventually become Poz sooner or later, had a just carried on bareback topping random, anon strangers and never got on PrEP?

Or is it possible I could have barebacked my way through to this day without being on PrEP and still remained neg?

[BootmanLA]

Let's look at this mathematically.

First, it doesn't matter, in one sense, HOW many bottoms you fuck; if none of them happened to be HIV+, then you aren't going to get HIV, no matter what. It's not a penalty that's levied for crossing some threshold of sluttiness. If you fucked, say, 800 guys, but only 50 of them were poz, that means 750 of those encounters were zero risk and don't count.

Second, since the advent of modern HIV treatment (where a single pill containing 3 or 4 medications combined is sufficient to keep a viral load undetectable), it's probable that the majority of HIV-infected individuals are undetectable and, as we now know, essentially incapable of infecting others *as long as they remain undetectable by taking their medications on a steady basis*. That means you could fuck truly UD guys bare till the cows come home and still be at almost zero risk for HIV. The only ones you'd need to be concerned with would be the ones who are poz and NOT undetectable.

Third, you were topping, exclusively (?), and the risk to a top fucking an HIV+ bottom is at least an order of magnitude less than the reverse. Estimates are that a negative bottom having sex with a positive top has about a 1 in 70 or so chance of infection, while a negative top fucking a positive (and infectious, not undetectable) bottom has about a 1 in 900 chance of becoming infected. Being uncut increases those odds, yes, but still not anywhere near what a negative bottom faces from a non-UD positive top.

So while there's probably some element of luck involved in your case, it's not really all that surprising. That said, PrEP is still strongly recommended. The element of luck may have only stopped you from getting infected on, say, a handful of cases, but if that luck ran out, there's no going back. Count your blessings, stay on PrEP, and enjoy yourself.

[NEDenver]

Another thing--most people are decent.  Most people will tell a partner if they are HIV positive, so you'd know.  Most people won't have sex if they're contagious with another STD until treatment is done.  Sure, occasionally, someone won't know of an STD (including HIV) because there were no symptoms and they're not being regularly tested, but those odds are probably pretty low. 

[1hornyjohn]

1 hour ago, BootmanLA said:

Let's look at this mathematically.

First, it doesn't matter, in one sense, HOW many bottoms you fuck; if none of them happened to be HIV+, then you aren't going to get HIV, no matter what. It's not a penalty that's levied for crossing some threshold of sluttiness. If you fucked, say, 800 guys, but only 50 of them were poz, that means 750 of those encounters were zero risk and don't count.

Second, since the advent of modern HIV treatment (where a single pill containing 3 or 4 medications combined is sufficient to keep a viral load undetectable), it's probable that the majority of HIV-infected individuals are undetectable and, as we now know, essentially incapable of infecting others *as long as they remain undetectable by taking their medications on a steady basis*. That means you could fuck truly UD guys bare till the cows come home and still be at almost zero risk for HIV. The only ones you'd need to be concerned with would be the ones who are poz and NOT undetectable.

Third, you were topping, exclusively (?), and the risk to a top fucking an HIV+ bottom is at least an order of magnitude less than the reverse. Estimates are that a negative bottom having sex with a positive top has about a 1 in 70 or so chance of infection, while a negative top fucking a positive (and infectious, not undetectable) bottom has about a 1 in 900 chance of becoming infected. Being uncut increases those odds, yes, but still not anywhere near what a negative bottom faces from a non-UD positive top.

So while there's probably some element of luck involved in your case, it's not really all that surprising. That said, PrEP is still strongly recommended. The element of luck may have only stopped you from getting infected on, say, a handful of cases, but if that luck ran out, there's no going back. Count your blessings, stay on PrEP, and enjoy yourself.

I'm a bottom who fucked raw more and more as time went on. When PReP came out (you had to buy it) and I took it on an event based routine..ie when I knew the Liklihood is I'd get fucked and loaded rather than one pill every day.

As luck would have it I must have got things wrong cos I went to Dean Street clinic when PReP became free, got tested and, guess what?, it came back that I was poz.

So now I'm on meds and undetectable and only fuck raw!

[concerned1]

4 minutes ago, 1hornyjohn said:

I'm a bottom who fucked raw more and more as time went on. When PReP came out (you had to buy it) and I took it on an event based routine..ie when I knew the Liklihood is I'd get fucked and loaded rather than one pill every day.

As luck would have it I must have got things wrong cos I went to Dean Street clinic when PReP became free, got tested and, guess what?, it came back that I was poz.

So now I'm on meds and undetectable and only fuck raw!

Did you tell the sexual health worker who told you that you are poz, that you'd been taking PrEP on an event-based basis?

If so, what did they say?

I have been to 56 Dean Street many times. I had my Hep B vaccinations done there.

But most of the time I go to Mortimer Market Centre Clinic (near Warren Street tube station), which is the clinic who started me on the PrEP Impact Trial in 2019. I actually love both clinics, the staff at both clinics are great and very friendly and non-judgmental.

 

[1hornyjohn]

1 minute ago, concerned1 said:

Did you tell the sexual health worker who told you that you are poz, that you'd been taking PrEP on an event-based basis?

If so, what did they say?

I have been to 56 Dean Street many times. I had my Hep B vaccinations done there.

But most of the time I go to Mortimer Market Centre Clinic (near Warren Street tube station), which is the clinic who started me on the PrEP Impact Trial in 2019. I actually love both clinics, the staff at both clinics are great and very friendly and non-judgmental.

 

Got taken to see health worker who reassured me all was OK ( in retrospect I think I was pretty calm anyway). They did 2nd test which came back poz.

To be honest I'm cool with being poz and I think it has the benefit that as I'm undetectable I can fuck raw knowing I won't catch anything aside from usual STIs and equally I  present no danger to whoever is stuck up my hole!

Want to try me out?? Lol 😆

[concerned1]

4 minutes ago, 1hornyjohn said:

Got taken to see health worker who reassured me all was OK ( in retrospect I think I was pretty calm anyway). They did 2nd test which came back poz.

To be honest I'm cool with being poz and I think it has the benefit that as I'm undetectable I can fuck raw knowing I won't catch anything aside from usual STIs and equally I  present no danger to whoever is stuck up my hole!

Want to try me out?? Lol 😆

I bet you've been a right cumdump in the darkrooms at Chariots !

[1hornyjohn]

Just now, concerned1 said:

I bet you've been a right cumdump in the darkrooms at Chariots !

True but not at Chariots for a while. Pre lockdown my hole was on offer at The Vault,  SBN, Greenhouse sauna in Luton and occasionally on Hampstead Heath.  BTW going to be on the Heath next week if you're looking to unload

[concerned1]

3 minutes ago, 1hornyjohn said:

True but not at Chariots for a while. Pre lockdown my hole was on offer at The Vault,  SBN, Greenhouse sauna in Luton and occasionally on Hampstead Heath.  BTW going to be on the Heath next week if you're looking to unload

Oh, I've been to Vault a few times - cruising around the place naked and wearing my shoes 😂 very fun place, do you know if it will re-open soon?

I went to Greenhouse Luton a few times too (I used to love the jacuzzi there), and I had sex with one of the guys who worked there - a hot lad of Bangladeshi heritage. I also used to sometimes drive with a friend to Greenhouse Darlaston (in the West Midlands, near Birmingham). That was a good place too, on three floors if I remember correctly - but not as big as Chariots Shoreditch (that was my favourite!).

Last time I went cruising on Hampstead Heath was, I think, one night in the summer of 2019 (I met a hot mixed race guy there who was smoking Tina and getting fucked raw taking anonymous loads... so I gave him mine, too).

I'll have to hit you up sometime, friend!

 

 

 

[1hornyjohn]

17 minutes ago, concerned1 said:

Oh, I've been to Vault a few times - cruising around the place naked and wearing my shoes 😂 very fun place, do you know if it will re-open soon?

I went to Greenhouse Luton a few times too (I used to love the jacuzzi there), and I had sex with one of the guys who worked there - a hot lad of Bangladeshi heritage. I also used to sometimes drive with a friend to Greenhouse Darlaston (in the West Midlands, near Birmingham). That was a good place too, on three floors if I remember correctly - but not as big as Chariots Shoreditch (that was my favourite!).

Last time I went cruising on Hampstead Heath was, I think, one night in the summer of 2019 (I met a hot mixed race guy there who was smoking Tina and getting fucked raw taking anonymous loads... so I gave him mine, too).

I'll have to hit you up sometime, friend!

 

 

 

The Vault.  Who knows, maybe we have fucked there.  Yes it is reopening on 19th July.

Greenhouse.  I know the guy you mean. Cute fella.  Only member of staff there who fucked me was manager very late one night. We got disturbed by cleaner arriving.  He owes me a load.

I aim to be in the Heath on Saturday 17th July from 8.00pm onwards. Let me know if you are free and fancy hooking up there.

[concerned1]

Darren owes you a load, huh? Haha.

Okay, I will private message you with regards to a meet up on the Heath.

Better not continue the discussion here as it's taken the post off topic.

I'll hit you up shortly!

[viking8x6]

On the original topic... even if all of those encounters had been with detectable poz guys, the math was still probably on your side.

Using the 1/900 number for insertive partner (from @BootmanLA's reply), and assuming you fucked 300 guys, you would still only have a 28% chance of infection.

 

[billy]

You just never know, I've heard some bottoms say they got pozed the first time they were barebacked. I'm a bottom who has been mostly barebacking for the last 30 years, probably around 100 to 150 guys that were mostly one time things. I'd say 95% of those times was BB. I have been on PrEP for about a year and half. Still HIV neg and and have never had a STD (knock on wood). Why? - How?  Beats me, I'm going with pure luck.  I thought for sure I was going to get it while waiting for the test results to get PrEP, didn't stop me from getting fucked raw by strange guys though.

Edited November 25, 2021 by billy

[Kimberley]

That's indeed a funny thing. before i started prep i also had never a STD, while i had expose myself much enough to unprotected sex. when i started with prep the STD's suddenly where coming very quickly and often. maybe because i have no standards any more and just letting everyone bareback me. 1 thing fore sure, if i was not on prep i know i was poz now for sure