"I'm clean, D&D free."

[tallslenderguy]

Warning, this is rant.

i cannot fathom how often i see this on gay sites, which lets be real, a "gay site" is pretty much a hook up site.  It is 2021, right? i didn't accidentally step into a time warp and transport back to a time where there was no google?  How is it that there can be so much ignorance in the information age?  That the term "clean" mis still being used to imply STI's, and more specifically HIV, as though that's the equivalent of leprosy.  And probably the even worse ignorance of guys who make such claims and are even igorant to include such useful info as "neg as of December 2018."  Do that many guys still buy into the notion that a claim of "cleanest" or "D&D free" actually equals reality? 

okay, sorry, end of rant. 

[BlackDude]

13 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

Warning, this is rant.

i cannot fathom how often i see this on gay sites, which lets be real, a "gay site" is pretty much a hook up site.  It is 2021, right? i didn't accidentally step into a time warp and transport back to a time where there was no google?  How is it that there can be so much ignorance in the information age?  That the term "clean" mis still being used to imply STI's, and more specifically HIV, as though that's the equivalent of leprosy.  And probably the even worse ignorance of guys who make such claims and are even igorant to include such useful info as "neg as of December 2018."  Do that many guys still buy into the notion that a claim of "cleanest" or "D&D free" actually equals reality? 

okay, sorry, end of rant. 

I believe so yes. Just my opinion, gay society has become a lot less piggy and moving to align itself more with straight society and it’s values. This is the compromise of seeking acceptance. 
 

This includes many men being less educated, willfully ignorant and more judgmental of activities or situations straight society may not understand or approve off. As if they are separating themselves for other gay men to appear more civilized to straight society. “Yes I’m gay but I would never…..” Straight society still connects disease with gay bb sex, and many gays will to just to go along with it. 

This is all a fruitless attempt to get society to “accept” them, when truth is most either accept it or wont no matter civilized they deem behavior is. No judgment here because I do the same at times. Just giving you an explanation. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by BlackDude

[FunCheerSlut]

Excellent rant. It is well-deserved. What are people thinking? I guess they are NOT thinking. The amount of ignorance is mind-blowing...and at this point in my life I would much rather hook-up with someone who is HIV positive, on meds, and undetectable versus someone who does not get tested and has no idea if what they CLAIM is accurate.

D&D is only as good as your last test result and your last sexual partner...but you guys know that.

On a personal note, I am frustrated that our local public health unit essentially closed during the pandemic. They were only providing services to those who presented symptoms. Pro-active STi testing and screening was essentially taken away. How is that going to help?? Sorry to add to your rant with my own...rant over.

[tallslenderguy]

11 minutes ago, FunCheerSlut said:

Excellent rant. It is well-deserved. What are people thinking? I guess they are NOT thinking. The amount of ignorance is mind-blowing...and at this point in my life I would much rather hook-up with someone who is HIV positive, on meds, and undetectable versus someone who does not get tested and has no idea if what they CLAIM is accurate.

D&D is only as good as your last test result and your last sexual partner...but you guys know that.

On a personal note, I am frustrated that our local public health unit essentially closed during the pandemic. They were only providing services to those who presented symptoms. Pro-active STi testing and screening was essentially taken away. How is that going to help?? Sorry to add to your rant with my own...rant over.

Thank you, and i have no problem with you adding to it. i think BlackDude makes some valid points about willful ignorance and heteronormative conformity, but perhaps that means we should not be silent about it?  i literally read this just ten minutes ago in a guys profile on a gay site (i copied and pasted it):

"I am HIV neg and expect you to be also, but not required. I am on PrEP for more than three years. Clean, healthy and STD free!"

i thought it might be a typo and tried to gently point it out, he replied: Thank you for the input, but i am happy with my profile." 

blink.

[SpectreAgent]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

Warning, this is rant.

i cannot fathom how often i see this on gay sites, which lets be real, a "gay site" is pretty much a hook up site.  It is 2021, right? i didn't accidentally step into a time warp and transport back to a time where there was no google?  How is it that there can be so much ignorance in the information age?  That the term "clean" mis still being used to imply STI's, and more specifically HIV, as though that's the equivalent of leprosy.  And probably the even worse ignorance of guys who make such claims and are even igorant to include such useful info as "neg as of December 2018."  Do that many guys still buy into the notion that a claim of "cleanest" or "D&D free" actually equals reality? 

okay, sorry, end of rant. 

Don’t apologise for your rant. On other sites I specifically state that anyone using the word “clean” in relation to their status need not bother contacting me because we won’t get on. 

[Bearhunter55]

I tell guys that I am indeed clean, I shower every day. And if you've had sex ONCE since that day that you posted you were clean (sometimes years ago!! ) you really don't know, do you?   What also kills me is guys on Scruff that say they say they are Neg but they are on "Treatment for Prevention" and if I mention that means they are Poz on Meds not Neg they get confused or huffy- or both. 

[BlackDude]

2 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Thank you, and i have no problem with you adding to it. i think BlackDude makes some valid points about willful ignorance and heteronormative conformity, but perhaps that means we should not be silent about it?  i literally read this just ten minutes ago in a guys profile on a gay site (i copied and pasted it):

"I am HIV neg and expect you to be also, but not required. I am on PrEP for more than three years. Clean, healthy and STD free!"

i thought it might be a typo and tried to gently point it out, he replied: Thank you for the input, but i am happy with my profile." 

blink.

I know people that are on Prep and use condoms. I started prep with the full intent on using condoms until I was ready. I don’t think their is anything wrong with taking an extra precaution. Not everyone takes Prep to start BB.

And I also know some guys are full of BS. They’ll put that on a profile to “safe face” for friends, their open relationships and other fuck buddies, but will BB if they deem you worthy. 

 

[ErosWired]

You speak of the ‘Information Age’ as though you mean the ‘Age of Enlightenment’. It’s anything but. Current events paint a stark picture of how radically the modern system of information dispersal promotes disinformation and empowers ignorance. Although the human mind is capable of brilliant insight and deep comprehension, that is the exception to human behavior rather than the rule. Instead, humans are by and large myopic, irrational, self-interested creatures still driven by limbic impulses and base instincts manifesting as emotional reaction. The herd still acts like a herd because it’s survived (and prospered obscenely) doing so for 50,000 years. There’s no imperative for humanity to shed its animal nature.

Not quite yet, anyway. We are swiftly compromising our environment and our societies to the point that we may soon have to undergo significant adaptation to survive.

The vast majority of people are not taught how to think critically, or at least never acquire the habit. It requires effort, and humans tend to be intellectually lazy. What’s more, deep thought often results in one realizing that most issues are much more complicated than they first appear, and the more one thinks about them, the less simple life seems to be in general. This sits so poorly with the average person that one might argue that humans as a mass may not be well-suited for intellect at all.

No, you cannot expect men to screw their heads on straight about being “clean” anytime soon. They’re mired in a tar-pit of fear of what they do know about STDs, confusion about the conflicting information that’s flying around the web faster than they can sort it, and plain ignorance about questions they don’t even know to ask because they’re not stopping to think any of it through.

Thinking is work, and not that many people know how to do it very well. It’s much easier to make a noise and see what noise comes back - that’s basically what goes on in the apps now - everybody’s stopped interacting at a meaningful level and are now just blindly pinging each other like submarines, hoping to get a familiar response that means it’s safe to raise the periscope.

Factualness, accuracy, and objectivity are not values to most people unless they are instrumental as the quickest means of obtaining human needs (for reference, see Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs). The trouble is, not all needs are equal, or equally important at any given time. I may be so hungry I don’t give a damn about sex, but later I may be more than happy to skip a meal or two to slut around the clock at the bathhouse - yet food and sex are both essential. So are health, wellness, and social acceptance. We may be incredulous that a guy would recklessly expose himself to STDs in spite of all the best advice, but that advice doesn’t get him what he needs in that moment - sexual release, or a sense of belonging to a group of men whose sexual active lifestyle he admires.

You’ll drive yourself crazy holding high expectations of your fellow human beings. I know this probably sounds jaded and bitter, but I no longer expect the best of people around me - I used to, very much, but they disappointed me every single time. They continue to do so. I’ve come to the conclusion that the standard I set for myself and demand of myself is simply too much to expect of anyone else around me. This is evident to me in that no matter how honest I am in my expressions, people can no longer even recognize integrity when they encounter it. “I expect you to be HIV, but I don’t require it” is just shorthand for “I’m going to fuck you regardless of your status, and you know it, and I know you know, and you know I know you know, because you’re not going to tell me the truth to begin with and I know you’re not, and you know I know, and I know you know I know.”

*~ping~*

This is why I don’t start dialogue or indulge chatters when I take cock. I let my ass do all the talking. In the end, the discussion between their cocks and my cunt are the only honest conversations I’ll have all night.

 

And that’s a rant.

[tallslenderguy]

5 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

You speak of the ‘Information Age’ as though you mean the ‘Age of Enlightenment’. It’s anything but. Current events paint a stark picture of how radically the modern system of information dispersal promotes disinformation and empowers ignorance. Although the human mind is capable of brilliant insight and deep comprehension, that is the exception to human behavior rather than the rule. Instead, humans are by and large myopic, irrational, self-interested creatures still driven by limbic impulses and base instincts manifesting as emotional reaction. The herd still acts like a herd because it’s survived (and prospered obscenely) doing so for 50,000 years. There’s no imperative for humanity to shed its animal nature.

Not quite yet, anyway. We are swiftly compromising our environment and our societies to the point that we may soon have to undergo significant adaptation to survive.

The vast majority of people are not taught how to think critically, or at least never acquire the habit. It requires effort, and humans tend to be intellectually lazy. What’s more, deep thought often results in one realizing that most issues are much more complicated than they first appear, and the more one thinks about them, the less simple life seems to be in general. This sits so poorly with the average person that one might argue that humans as a mass may not be well-suited for intellect at all.

No, you cannot expect men to screw their heads on straight about being “clean” anytime soon. They’re mired in a tar-pit of fear of what they do know about STDs, confusion about the conflicting information that’s flying around the web faster than they can sort it, and plain ignorance about questions they don’t even know to ask because they’re not stopping to think any of it through.

Thinking is work, and not that many people know how to do it very well. It’s much easier to make a noise and see what noise comes back - that’s basically what goes on in the apps now - everybody’s stopped interacting at a meaningful level and are now just blindly pinging each other like submarines, hoping to get a familiar response that means it’s safe to raise the periscope.

Factualness, accuracy, and objectivity are not values to most people unless they are instrumental as the quickest means of obtaining human needs (for reference, see Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs). The trouble is, not all needs are equal, or equally important at any given time. I may be so hungry I don’t give a damn about sex, but later I may be more than happy to skip a meal or two to slut around the clock at the bathhouse - yet food and sex are both essential. So are health, wellness, and social acceptance. We may be incredulous that a guy would recklessly expose himself to STDs in spite of all the best advice, but that advice doesn’t get him what he needs in that moment - sexual release, or a sense of belonging to a group of men whose sexual active lifestyle he admires.

You’ll drive yourself crazy holding high expectations of your fellow human beings. I know this probably sounds jaded and bitter, but I no longer expect the best of people around me - I used to, very much, but they disappointed me every single time. They continue to do so. I’ve come to the conclusion that the standard I set for myself and demand of myself is simply too much to expect of anyone else around me. This is evident to me in that no matter how honest I am in my expressions, people can no longer even recognize integrity when they encounter it. “I expect you to be HIV, but I don’t require it” is just shorthand for “I’m going to fuck you regardless of your status, and you know it, and I know you know, and you know I know you know, because you’re not going to tell me the truth to begin with and I know you’re not, and you know I know, and I know you know I know.”

*~ping~*

This is why I don’t start dialogue or indulge chatters when I take cock. I let my ass do all the talking. In the end, the discussion between their cocks and my cunt are the only honest conversations I’ll have all night.

 

And that’s a rant.

Hey, im a romantic and a dreamer. love you Eros ❤️ 

[blackrobe]

I'm increasingly tired of educating people who didn't live through the dark early days of HIV about the stigma. 

If a guy approaches me and I see "clean" used to mean STI/HIV negative, I just say "No thanks..."  If they press me for why I'm saying no, I tell them.

[BlackDude]

3 hours ago, blackrobe said:

I'm increasingly tired of educating people who didn't live through the dark early days of HIV about the stigma. 

If a guy approaches me and I see "clean" used to mean STI/HIV negative, I just say "No thanks..."  If they press me for why I'm saying no, I tell them.

Great point here. A lot of folks 30-35 plus seen guys, even close family and friends literally die in weeks from something we couldn’t wrap our heads around fast enough. It was drilled in our heads for decades “use a condom or die.” For many, There is no amount of reading, knowledge, experience, or education that is going to undo that trauma and hardwiring. 
 

However, I think for younger folks, they are just being stereotypical (excuse my language) snooty fags. Sorry….

[NastyRigPig]

We live in an age of too much information but not enough knowledge. 

[fskn]

3 hours ago, blackrobe said:

I'm increasingly tired of educating people who didn't live through the dark early days of HIV about the stigma. 

If a guy approaches me and I see "clean" used to mean STI/HIV negative, I just say "No thanks..."  If they press me for why I'm saying no, ...

This would be a great, preemptive use of the block button! As someone who has volunteered in HIV prevention for more than two decades, I'm finally conceding that my own efforts to educate others can no longer come at the risk of my being insulted and abused. Some people aren't open to accurate information about sexual health. 

I recently had a bacterial STI, asymptomatic but caught and treated immediately because I elect to receive monthly testing as part of my PrEP care. The responses from my sexual partners have been fascinating.

Instead of asking how I am, one guy immediately switches into shame-based, self-pity mode, asking how many other partners I've slept with in the month. (This is someone I fucked once and don't know well.) He believes that nice people don't get STIs, he's afraid of STI treatments (for bacterial STIs), and at the same time, he hasn't considered, let alone completed, STI vaccinations (Hep A, Hep B, HPV). He's on PrEP, but he imagines that he can protect himself from STIs other than HIV solely by inquiring about his partners' sexual habits and by having less sex with fewer partners. In the same breath, this brooding 35-year-old insured professional laments not getting fucked as often as he'd like. 🤔 After several weeks of daily small talk by text message, I haven't heard a word from him lately. Good riddance!

Meanwhile, a 21-year-old uninsured Starbucks worker says thanks, that he'll get tested, and that he'll even let me know what he finds out. 🙂 He is grateful that I mentioned the nation's foremost sexual health care provider, San Francisco City Clinic, which offers low-/no-cost, culturally competent, medically innovative services. I've also met him only once, but he is an amazing fuck and his sex-positive attitude means he's welcome back in my bed any time.

People who never get STIs are probably not having very much sex. Stupid profile comments like "clean and disease-free and you be, too" help us weed them out. I want to meet other people who are sex-positive, highly active, realistic about sexual health risks, and who communicate openly and without shame when an STI does occur, so that we can all get tested and treated and get back to breeding.

Edited August 10, 2021 by fskn
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[blackrobe]

1 hour ago, BlackDude said:

Great point here. A lot of folks 30-35 plus seen guys, even close family and friends literally die in weeks from something we couldn’t wrap our heads around fast enough. It was drilled in our heads for decades “use a condom or die.” For many, There is no amount of reading, knowledge, experience, or education that is going to undo that trauma and hardwiring. 

However, I think for younger folks, they are just being stereotypical (excuse my language) snooty fags. Sorry….

Perhaps. I'm inclined to think that for younger folks it's just simple ignorance of the world as it was rather than a studied disapproval or contempt of others. It seems a fair parallel to Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".  In this case I think of stupidity as being replaced by ignorance.

[BlackDude]

2 minutes ago, blackrobe said:

Perhaps. I'm inclined to think that for younger folks it's just simple ignorance of the world as it was rather than a studied disapproval or contempt of others. It seems a fair parallel to Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".  In this case I think of stupidity as being replaced by ignorance.

I would agree with you, but I’ve seen so many of these Dudes clutching their pearls online or in bars only to see them late nights, in the shadows waiting to get their turn at the latest seedy motel Cumdump, not a condom to be found.