Fiction Questions

[BootmanLA]

OK, so I (more or less) get the distinctions between the various fiction forums. For instance, I know that if there's straight or bi content, it goes in that forum; if it involves pozzing, it goes in the Backroom's Bug Chasing/Gift Giving fiction; if it's a softcore or hardcore fetish, it goes in that respective forum; if it's ordinary gay bb sex, it goes in the regular fiction section.

What happens when a topic extends between two of the categories? My gut feeling says that in some respects, it's hierarchical - that it goes in the most restricted category into which it fits, and since the backroom is the only section where one can request "block me from seeing this", that's the hardest-core section.

For instance, there's an ongoing storyline in the Bug Chasing/Gift Giving section that involves a considerable amount of watersports and fisting. But because it involves an attempt to poz convert a guy, it's where it is, even though the "ick" factor items would be enough to segregate it into the Hardcore fetishes section.

And I'm not sure that's exactly the message this site otherwise seems to be conveying. It's unabashedly pro-Poz, reminding us that there's nothing to be ashamed of in being HIV-positive, and we're free to discuss poz-related issues in our lives in lots of places within the forum. But to read fiction about this means you have to accept the risk that your fiction is going to otherwise contain "icky" factor fetishes.

Put another way, I can see where there would be guys who are into stories about piss or fisting, but squicked out about HIV, just like I can see there would be guys into stories about HIV, but squicked out about watersports or hands in asses. Stories that contain elements of both, then, have to fall into one group or the other (it's just not practical to have separate fora for HIV with hardcore, HIV without hardcore, BB with hardcore, BB without hardcore, etc.).

I just am not sure why, on a site that celebrates barebacking and encourages open discussion of HIV-related issues, that area of fiction has to accept intrusions of unrelated hardcore fetish (ones that the site otherwise normally segregates precisely because of the "ick" factor), instead of requiring that the "ick" factor fetish determines that such stories have to go in the Hardcore fetish forum (where visitors will accept that HIV stuff may "bleed over", so to speak).

Thoughts?

[chi4loads]

The mods have made it brutally clear to anyone that has tried to cross the line(s) that you can't.  You get bitch slapped 7 ways to Sunday and sent to your corner for 2 weeks (or more).   That's what I got for 2 paragraphs of str8ish sex in a story with HUNDREDs of paragraphs of gay sex in the Backroom Fiction area.  I guess I was supposed to put one chapter out of 100 in a different forum than the others (and confuse all of the readers).  They have chosen their containers and you will not, even briefly, go outside them.   Gay people get straight sex shoved in their faces everywhere in the offline world, but apparently are too fragile to see it here.

[BootmanLA]

11 hours ago, chi4loads said:

The mods have made it brutally clear to anyone that has tried to cross the line(s) that you can't.  You get bitch slapped 7 ways to Sunday and sent to your corner for 2 weeks (or more).   That's what I got for 2 paragraphs of str8ish sex in a story with HUNDREDs of paragraphs of gay sex in the Backroom Fiction area.  I guess I was supposed to put one chapter out of 100 in a different forum than the others (and confuse all of the readers).  They have chosen their containers and you will not, even briefly, go outside them.   Gay people get straight sex shoved in their faces everywhere in the offline world, but apparently are too fragile to see it here.

I'm not questioning their containers. In fact, I recognize and commend their "If it has X, then it goes in 1, otherwise if it has Y, it goes in 2, otherwise..." approach. It allows a writer to determine, based on what elements he's going to include (eventually), to determine the proper forum for his story. In the absence of mandatory "tags" (visible before you open a topic/story), that's about as reasonable a solution as I can think of.

My questioning isn't about the approach; it's about the logical construction it uses. As I read it, the "tree" of decision making reads "If it has pozzing/chasing content, it must go in 'Bug Chasing/Gift Giving', otherwise, if it has a hardcore fetish, it must go in 'Hardcore Fetish'".

I'd fathom a guess - just a guess - that there are far more people on this site who are into fiction about poz/neg sex but NOT, say, fisting, as there are people who are into fisting but not poz/neg sex - which (if true) would suggest that the first test should be 'Does this cover hardcore fetish?', and if so, put it in that forum to start with, even if it also has poz/neg elements. 

Separately, I'd question your point about "straight sex shoved in their faces everywhere". Yes, straight *sexuality* (ie men ogling women, women dressing provocatively to appeal to men, models/ads aimed at enticing men) is commonplace. Straight SEX is not - as a gay OR straight man, you don't encounter people having straight sex on the streets, at least not where I live. You have to seek out actual depictions of straight sex, and the point is that when one is seeking depictions of *gay* sex, I'd imagine that the typical gay man has zero interest in women being involved. There's even a forum specifically for that kind of story, and if you planned to put straight/bi sex into your story, you could have easily begun the story there, instead of giving the moderator the job of splitting off  your story. 

[viking8x6]

I believe that @rawTOP has plans, as the improved site takes shape, to make the "topics" (various ick-factor fetishes and gay, straight and bi categories as well as drug and chasing topics) tag-driven rather than subforum-driven (correct me if I'm mistaken). Once that transition is implemented, it will become much simpler both to search by specific topic and to filter what you see by topic (in either a positive or negative sense).

While it would be possible to set up an entire parallel tree of fetish subforums within the Backroom, I expect if the tag implementation is coming any time remotely soon, it would not be worth the effort. It would also have the disadvantage that it would make it considerably harder to find content if it were scattered among a collection of subforums.

All that said, if authors would start practicing tagging their content going forward, it would improve @BootmanLA's experience (because he can see the tags at the top of the piece and skip reading it) and make the moderators' jobs a lot easier when the eventual transition happens (and everything will have to be tagged to get it to show up in the right feeds).

Edited October 2, 2021 by viking8x6
Added sexuality topics

[badjujuboy]

23 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

And I'm not sure that's exactly the message this site otherwise seems to be conveying. It's unabashedly pro-Poz, reminding us that there's nothing to be ashamed of in being HIV-positive, and we're free to discuss poz-related issues in our lives in lots of places within the forum. But to read fiction about this means you have to accept the risk that your fiction is going to otherwise contain "icky" factor fetishes.

Put another way, I can see where there would be guys who are into stories about piss or fisting, but squicked out about HIV, just like I can see there would be guys into stories about HIV, but squicked out about watersports or hands in asses. Stories that contain elements of both, then, have to fall into one group or the other (it's just not practical to have separate fora for HIV with hardcore, HIV without hardcore, BB with hardcore, BB without hardcore, etc.).

I just am not sure why, on a site that celebrates barebacking and encourages open discussion of HIV-related issues, that area of fiction has to accept intrusions of unrelated hardcore fetish (ones that the site otherwise normally segregates precisely because of the "ick" factor), instead of requiring that the "ick" factor fetish determines that such stories have to go in the Hardcore fetish forum (where visitors will accept that HIV stuff may "bleed over", so to speak).

Thoughts?

I would agree that requiring tags may help with this.  My stories reside in the Chem Sex area because of the primary focus yet include bareback sex, fisting and watersports to a great extent.  I purposefully did not include pozzing within the storyline but I infer that bareback sex may have connotations of that aspect.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy stories with that scenario so I'm not against it.  It's just not the primary focus I choose to include in mine..

That said, I've found it difficult to tag my stories.  I think I might have missed a step in the initial posting of my first one and by the time it was posted, I didn't know how go to back and tag.  It would be helpful to be able to go back and edit to include tags.  Again, requiring some tags may help as I don't even remember being asked to tag on the second story.

 

[BootmanLA]

Another question ( more of a suggestion):

Why is the "General Bareback Sex Stories" forum so labeled, when every other section for stories/fiction is clearly labeled, in ALL CAPS, as "FICTION"? I mean, we have:

-Bug Chasing & Gift Giving FICTION
-Chem Sex FICTION
-Hardcore Fetish FICTION
-Softcore Fetish FICTION
-Fem Trans & Cross-Dressing FICTION
-Straight & Bi FICTION

But the broad, catchall category is simply "General Bareback Sex Stories".

I see (and report) topics created there regularly that have nothing to do with fictional accounts of bareback sex, and it struck me that if the forum were named "General Bareback FICTION" instead, it might not attract posts from people thinking it's the place to tell "their story".

 

[Guest takingdeepanal]

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Another question ( more of a suggestion):

Why is the "General Bareback Sex Stories" forum so labeled, when every other section for stories/fiction is clearly labeled, in ALL CAPS, as "FICTION"? I mean, we have:

-Bug Chasing & Gift Giving FICTION
-Chem Sex FICTION
-Hardcore Fetish FICTION
-Softcore Fetish FICTION
-Fem Trans & Cross-Dressing FICTION
-Straight & Bi FICTION

But the broad, catchall category is simply "General Bareback Sex Stories".

I see (and report) topics created there regularly that have nothing to do with fictional accounts of bareback sex, and it struck me that if the forum were named "General Bareback FICTION" instead, it might not attract posts from people thinking it's the place to tell "their story".

 

It might just be an oversight. @drscorpio - your thoughts?

[drscorpio]

6 hours ago, takingdeepanal said:

It might just be an oversight. @drscorpio - your thoughts?

I don't think it was a conscious choice to make that section different. 

[Guest]

Without the explicit 'FICTION' label, writing it pretending it to be a real life story does give the stories a little extra extra edge.
Most do, and start with something like "I was such and such age, looked this and that and my life was bla bla bla".

It is a literary style that has been used at least since Cervantes' Don Quijote.

My personal favourite being - based on what I've heard about it - the 1938 Radio Dram 'War of the Worlds' based on H.G. Wells, where the broadcast needed to be interrupted because listeners believed it to be really happening.
Now THAT's art! 😉 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Guest

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, BareLover666 said:

Without the explicit 'FICTION' label, writing it pretending it to be a real life story does give the stories a little extra extra edge.
Most do, and start with something like "I was such and such age, looked this and that and my life was bla bla bla".

It is a literary style that has been used at least since Cervantes' Don Quijote.

My personal favourite being - based on what I've heard about it - the 1938 Radio Dram 'War of the Worlds' based on H.G. Wells, where the broadcast needed to be interrupted because listeners believed it to be really happening.
Now THAT's art! 😉 

 I don't have a problem with first-person fiction at all. But there are topics that get created in there, routinely, that aren't fiction; they aren't even stories, but just discussion topics that otherwise belong in the General discussion section. I don't mean daily, but it's certainly a recurring problem - and I've seen topic after topic have to get moved from there to the general discussion area, which is work for the moderators.

I think their job would be easier if the powers-that-be renamed that area consistent with the other fiction areas.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

But there are topics that get created in there, routinely, that aren't fiction; they aren't even stories, but just discussion topics that otherwise belong in the General discussion section. I don't mean daily, but it's certainly a recurring problem - and I've seen topic after topic have to get moved from there to the general discussion area, which is work for the moderators.

I think their job would be easier if the powers-that-be renamed that area consistent with the other fiction areas.

If this is what it's about, I support your idea fully.
I thought you might have meant (fictional) stories told in the first person where it wasn't clear if the story was real or not. A work of fiction where it is not that clear if it's entirely autobiographical might be permissible, not the obvious ones. If changing the label helps: go for it @PowersThatBe. 😉

My bad.

[Guest WelshBBCigarFuck]

I have seen pozzing-related stories in the Bug Chasing and Gift Giving FICTION section which include some bondage, leather, CP, S&M and other such activities which could theoretically be considered as more Hardcore Fetish FICTION, however the story itself related to barebacking and breeding, so perhaps there is a slight leeway/tolerance that some bug chasing may take place in an environment which crosses boundaries, perhaps @drscorpio could confirm or give further guidance. I have been tempted to write some fiction myself, but have also been curious as to the boundaries as to when a story goes too far between 2 subjects. I guess in a chapter-based storyline there may be a situation where over a certain percentage of a chapter crosses the line, but then I guess it would be up to the author to split the chapters accordingly so that a chapter doesn’t become majority focused on a different path. For example:

1. You could have a chapter set in a leather bar with a guy bound to a fuck bench with a group of poz leather guys fucking mouth and arse, some CBT and TT but going into specifics of the poz tucking action and that would be permissible in the Bug Chasing and Gift Giving FICTION section.

2. You could have a chapter set in a leather bar with a guy bound to a bench being paddled or with CBT and TT but no specific bareback fucking by poz guys or specific mention of pozzing in the chapter and it would take it more into the Hardcore Fetish FICTION section.

[BootmanLA]

3 hours ago, WelshBBCigarFuck said:

I have seen pozzing-related stories in the Bug Chasing and Gift Giving FICTION section which include some bondage, leather, CP, S&M and other such activities which could theoretically be considered as more Hardcore Fetish FICTION, however the story itself related to barebacking and breeding, so perhaps there is a slight leeway/tolerance that some bug chasing may take place in an environment which crosses boundaries, perhaps @drscorpio could confirm or give further guidance. I have been tempted to write some fiction myself, but have also been curious as to the boundaries as to when a story goes too far between 2 subjects. I guess in a chapter-based storyline there may be a situation where over a certain percentage of a chapter crosses the line, but then I guess it would be up to the author to split the chapters accordingly so that a chapter doesn’t become majority focused on a different path. For example:

1. You could have a chapter set in a leather bar with a guy bound to a fuck bench with a group of poz leather guys fucking mouth and arse, some CBT and TT but going into specifics of the poz tucking action and that would be permissible in the Bug Chasing and Gift Giving FICTION section.

2. You could have a chapter set in a leather bar with a guy bound to a bench being paddled or with CBT and TT but no specific bareback fucking by poz guys or specific mention of pozzing in the chapter and it would take it more into the Hardcore Fetish FICTION section.

I think that highlights the problem with the current layout - either stories get broken up - and you have to jump over to another section entirely, find the story thread, read the post(s) there, and then return to the original thread. And I can see in a longer story things going back and forth, all over the place.

I assume a final "hierarchy" of rules would have to come from RawTop, ultimately, but I'd envision it going something like this:

1. If it contains any significant amount of chem sex, other than a passing reference, it goes in there, because that forum can be "closed off" for members who don't want to read about that (e.g. people in recovery, or who've lost friends to substance abuse).

2. Otherwise, if it contains sex with women - either straight or bi - it goes in the Straight/Bi fiction forum, even if it contains fetish elements.

3. If it's neither chemsex or straightsex, then the test is for fetish: if a significant element of the story is based on a hardcore or softcore fetish, then it goes in the appropriate forum. That's with the understanding that other stories with lesser amounts of a fetish might not hit that "significant element" trigger. Hardcore trumps softcore, so if a story contains both, it goes in Hardcore.

4. Otherwise, if it contains chasing/pozzing/stealthing elements, it goes in the Bug Chasing/Pozzing forum.

5. If none of the above apply, then it goes in the General Bareback section.

This is just a sample - for instance, an argument could be made the bug chasing/pozzing/stealth test should come before the hardcore/softcore test. I'd disagree, but it's an arguable point (my argument would be that pozzing is certainly closer related to the main focus of this site than, say, fisting or watersports). 

[drscorpio]

I think you have the right idea @BootmanLA, but your priority is off. In my mind it goes like this:

1. If it is contains anything explicit about sex with women, it belongs in the Straight/Bi Area
2. Then if it contains anything explicit about chem sex, it belongs in one of those two areas of the Backroom.
3. Then if it contains anything about Poz Fetish, it belongs in one of those two areas of the Backroom. 
4. Then if it is any other fetish, it belongs in those forums.

 

[BootmanLA]

12 minutes ago, drscorpio said:

I think you have the right idea @BootmanLA, but your priority is off. In my mind it goes like this:

1. If it is contains anything explicit about sex with women, it belongs in the Straight/Bi Area
2. Then if it contains anything explicit about chem sex, it belongs in one of those two areas of the Backroom.
3. Then if it contains anything about Poz Fetish, it belongs in one of those two areas of the Backroom. 
4. Then if it is any other fetish, it belongs in those forums.

That's certainly more helpful.

I'd still like to advocate for testing for hardcore fetish (if not both hard/softcore) before poz fetish, on this reasoning: the point of segregating stories by focus is, in part, to keep people who don't want to see "X" from running across it. In a website about bareback sex in general with a significant portion dealing with HIV-related topics, compare two fiction stories:

1. A story that contains a scene of deliberate pozzing as one element within, say, a story about fisting;

2. A story that contains a scene of fisting and rosebuds as an element within a story about two HIV+ men having sex

Which one, on a bareback/breeding/HIV-tolerant site, is more likely to bother a larger group of users? I'd argue it's the latter. 

Or consider those stories that get photos for illustration, which as has been discussed, is apparently OK here. Is a user more likely to get wigged out by stumbling onto a photo of cum dripping from an ass (ie an illustration of the "pozzing" aspect of the fisting story), or by stumbling onto a photo of a bright red rosebud prolapsed rectum in the middle of the poz fetish section? Again, I'd argue the latter.

For that reason, I'd strongly recommend that hardcore fetish be segregated BEFORE testing for poz content. 

And yes, I recognize that's RawTop's call (in conjunction with his moderators' advice). Just food for thought.