Florida becoming more and more Republican

[BlackDude]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:41 PM, hntnhole said:

I would add that, after the fall of the Batista Government, there were tons of small-business owners who felt they had worked hard to have what they had, and fled to FL, packing their industriousness right along with their undies.  Small business owners (well, most business owners, for that matter) are R's mostly for financial reasons.  In my short experience in FL, I find these to be quite industrious folk.  While dominating the Miami area, just to the north is Broward County, the most "blue" county in the state.  There are plenty of small business owners of Cuban origin here in Ft. L. too.  I have no knowledge about what percentage of these people drank the Orange Jesus cool-aid, but I'm assuming there was a substantial number.  

From my experience, most Cubans tilt Republican for social reason more so than political or financial. Although both parties are problematic on issues of race, DeSantis anti-black policies appeal to a large number them. They feel the key to political and financial success is not Justice, but proximity to whiteness. 
 

Italians, like DeSantis, were grandfathered into whiteness in this country. Unfortunately, many Latinos want to mimic this strategy 

[akula]

I'd be more concerned with the weather in Fl. the hurricanes are only going to get worse and insurance companies are cutting and running so I'd be more worried about he mega storm that's probably going to scour the state clean in the very near future.

[Grschwanz]

florida is becomg more red. its scary. School teachers are not even allowed to have pictures of their partner if they are gay .

add to that,  homes are no longer insurable. That means your investment in  property will eventually become worthless. Get out of Florida while there is still time.  

gina Thomas and Trump are not joking when they say they are going to arrest people and send them to gitmo. trump could easily come back as so many people, including Democrats,  are falsely accusing Biden of becoming too old

[hntnhole]

15 hours ago, BlackDude said:

They feel the key to political and financial success is not Justice, but proximity to whiteness.

Thanks for that perspective, BlackDude. 

I think there has to be more to it.  Folks who start businesses (generally "small" ones), are almost certainly motivated by wanting to provide a better life for their families here in the US than they had back in their homeland.  That is an admirable urge, and the one upon which our financial system was founded.  It does take a certain measure of industriousness, and a decent sense of what the market is for their proposed business.  

Once that business begins to flourish, they may open another location for that same business, often within relatively close proximity to their original business.  I doubt they're going after the "pale" customers at first, preferring to cater to their own community.  Once they achieve that kind of success, they begin to assess how to expand, into which communities, and that's when the endemic, deeply rooted racism becomes the major stumbling block.  I think it takes a few generations of family members to really comprehend just how deeply racism is imbedded in our society, and then how to overcome it by (what I understand to be) your description; proximity to whiteness.  

While it's instinctive to trust our own cultural group, that limits the potential growth too.  When that recognition becomes apparent (usually a generation or two after the initial founder), it also becomes clear that merely "proximity to whiteness" isn't enough to overcome the inbred, narrow hatreds that many Caucasians possess.   When the financial resources of Caucasians are required to really "make it", there are already a couple of generations that grew up in the US, and understand how to "work the system" to their benefit.  Recent immigrants don't enjoy that kind of understanding.  The deck is already stacked against any expansion - any *real* money/power.  

While the sorry excuse of a Governor here in FL is a (now nationally-proven) disgrace, I would wonder if the immigrants seeking to improve their lot in the US brought that with them, or picked it up here in the US.  The hellish practice of slavery existed on this continent before the US was even founded, and it's legacy is deeply imbedded in the population.  How would an "anti-Black" perspective become deeply infused into a population of some other country - say Cuba?  I've never been there, and know little about it. What I know of Cuban immigrants, is they're a hard-working, cheerful group, and most welcome here.  While I've heard plenty of racist shit through the years, I can't remember hearing anything singling out Cuban-Americans.    

Thanks for your interesting addition.

[hntnhole]

8 hours ago, Grschwanz said:

homes are no longer insurable

I think you're exaggerating a little bit.  Homes are still insurable, but it true that the costs are becoming burdensome, but there are ways to limit the costs too.  The other issues you allude to are political in nature, and either the voters will address them or they won't.  Yes, one day we may get "wiped out" here in Ft.L, just like the West coast of FL suffered extensive and wide-spread devastation last season.  Earlier this season the Panhandle suffered extensive damage as well.  However, very destructive hurricanes have been visiting Florida for many decades - it's nothing new.  As you may have noticed, the climate problems have been apparent everywhere - not just here in FL. 

So, we have to vote for candidates that look to the future, and try to improve it.  

 

[Grschwanz]

it's so humorous how liberals think that voting will solve the problems. It won't.  the other side already realizes this. if we're lucky, Joe Biden will eke out a win in 2024, but then that leaves 2028, 2032. Eventually the Nazis will take power. I hope everyone has a gun, has ammunition , has training and is taking self-defense courses because the other side is already doing this. 

you sound like a Fox News weather channel man. yes bad storms  have been hitting Florida for millions of years that's true but their severity has increased and will only get worse. You need to get out while you can.   there  are not many safe places left to go, but dont delay!   good luck 

[hntnhole]

10 hours ago, Grschwanz said:

you sound like a Fox News weather channel man

Really?  Well, I'm not.  I've heard of the Fox News channel, but when I bought the televisions, I had the technicians operate on it before I took delivery: neither of my tv's will even go to Fox (unless there's a good game on ... ).

As to the rest of your post, my only reaction is I'm sorry I bothered.

Good luck to you too.

[topblkmale]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:58 AM, Grschwanz said:

florida is becomg more red. its scary. School teachers are not even allowed to have pictures of their partner if they are gay .

add to that,  homes are no longer insurable. That means your investment in  property will eventually become worthless. Get out of Florida while there is still time.  

gina Thomas and Trump are not joking when they say they are going to arrest people and send them to gitmo. trump could easily come back as so many people, including Democrats,  are falsely accusing Biden of becoming too old

Which 'blue state' should those folks fleeing Florida run to?

[ErosWired]

21 hours ago, hntnhole said:

So, we have to vote for candidates that look to the future, and try to improve it.  

The time for “looking to the future” is basically up. It’s not as though there hasn’t been any warning - scientists have been ringing the warning bell about overheating the planet for years, until they’ve just about jerked the chain off the bell, but politicians in the service of greed (and largely on the right) have staunchly opposed any sensible change that would have prevented our turning the planet - the only one available to us - into an oven.

Or a washing-machine, if you think in terms of the hurricanes.

So all those crotchety red-as-apples don’t-tell-me-what-to-do retirees relocating to Florida have already voted for a near-term future that it’s too late to prevent: Hurricanes in increasing number and severity, and inevitable sea-level rise. They’ll be sitting in paradise waiting to be flooded out or blown out to sea.

And when Mother Nature has a shit-fit on them because she’s having hot flashes, and their houses are no longer fit to live in (or standing), what are they going to expect? They’re going to expect the government to bail them out. With tax dollars. And the instant any politician suggests that they pay a nickel more in taxes, they’ll lose their minds in outrage and vote him out of office.

[BlackDude]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:58 AM, Grschwanz said:

florida is becomg more red. its scary. School teachers are not even allowed to have pictures of their partner if they are gay .

add to that,  homes are no longer insurable. That means your investment in  property will eventually become worthless. Get out of Florida while there is still time.  

gina Thomas and Trump are not joking when they say they are going to arrest people and send them to gitmo. trump could easily come back as so many people, including Democrats,  are falsely accusing Biden of becoming too old

And the Democrats aren’t doing a thing about it. 

[BlackDude]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:53 AM, hntnhole said:

Thanks for that perspective, BlackDude. 

I think there has to be more to it.  Folks who start businesses (generally "small" ones), are almost certainly motivated by wanting to provide a better life for their families here in the US than they had back in their homeland.  That is an admirable urge, and the one upon which our financial system was founded.  It does take a certain measure of industriousness, and a decent sense of what the market is for their proposed business.  

Once that business begins to flourish, they may open another location for that same business, often within relatively close proximity to their original business.  I doubt they're going after the "pale" customers at first, preferring to cater to their own community.  Once they achieve that kind of success, they begin to assess how to expand, into which communities, and that's when the endemic, deeply rooted racism becomes the major stumbling block.  I think it takes a few generations of family members to really comprehend just how deeply racism is imbedded in our society, and then how to overcome it by (what I understand to be) your description; proximity to whiteness.  

While it's instinctive to trust our own cultural group, that limits the potential growth too.  When that recognition becomes apparent (usually a generation or two after the initial founder), it also becomes clear that merely "proximity to whiteness" isn't enough to overcome the inbred, narrow hatreds that many Caucasians possess.   When the financial resources of Caucasians are required to really "make it", there are already a couple of generations that grew up in the US, and understand how to "work the system" to their benefit.  Recent immigrants don't enjoy that kind of understanding.  The deck is already stacked against any expansion - any *real* money/power.  

While the sorry excuse of a Governor here in FL is a (now nationally-proven) disgrace, I would wonder if the immigrants seeking to improve their lot in the US brought that with them, or picked it up here in the US.  The hellish practice of slavery existed on this continent before the US was even founded, and it's legacy is deeply imbedded in the population.  How would an "anti-Black" perspective become deeply infused into a population of some other country - say Cuba?  I've never been there, and know little about it. What I know of Cuban immigrants, is they're a hard-working, cheerful group, and most welcome here.  While I've heard plenty of racist shit through the years, I can't remember hearing anything singling out Cuban-Americans.    

Thanks for your interesting addition.

There is deep, anti-black colorism and racism in Latin culture. And this includes Cuba. An quick YouTube or google search will show numerous Afro-Latinos lamenting this. 
 

Many of these people bring racist attitudes with them from their countries. In Florida, we see this playing out.  

[BootmanLA]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:53 AM, hntnhole said:

Thanks for that perspective, BlackDude. 

I think there has to be more to it.  Folks who start businesses (generally "small" ones), are almost certainly motivated by wanting to provide a better life for their families here in the US than they had back in their homeland.  That is an admirable urge, and the one upon which our financial system was founded.  It does take a certain measure of industriousness, and a decent sense of what the market is for their proposed business.  

Once that business begins to flourish, they may open another location for that same business, often within relatively close proximity to their original business.  I doubt they're going after the "pale" customers at first, preferring to cater to their own community.  Once they achieve that kind of success, they begin to assess how to expand, into which communities, and that's when the endemic, deeply rooted racism becomes the major stumbling block.  I think it takes a few generations of family members to really comprehend just how deeply racism is imbedded in our society, and then how to overcome it by (what I understand to be) your description; proximity to whiteness.  

While it's instinctive to trust our own cultural group, that limits the potential growth too.  When that recognition becomes apparent (usually a generation or two after the initial founder), it also becomes clear that merely "proximity to whiteness" isn't enough to overcome the inbred, narrow hatreds that many Caucasians possess.   When the financial resources of Caucasians are required to really "make it", there are already a couple of generations that grew up in the US, and understand how to "work the system" to their benefit.  Recent immigrants don't enjoy that kind of understanding.  The deck is already stacked against any expansion - any *real* money/power.  

While the sorry excuse of a Governor here in FL is a (now nationally-proven) disgrace, I would wonder if the immigrants seeking to improve their lot in the US brought that with them, or picked it up here in the US.  The hellish practice of slavery existed on this continent before the US was even founded, and it's legacy is deeply imbedded in the population.  How would an "anti-Black" perspective become deeply infused into a population of some other country - say Cuba?  I've never been there, and know little about it. What I know of Cuban immigrants, is they're a hard-working, cheerful group, and most welcome here.  While I've heard plenty of racist shit through the years, I can't remember hearing anything singling out Cuban-Americans.    

Thanks for your interesting addition.

 I think, hntnhole (with much due respect) that this view kind of glides over a lot of racial issues that are present and pervasive in many Latin communities.

It may be true that, say, Cuban business owners start out trying to cater to their own communities. But there's frequently a big difference in the way they treat a white customer who happens into their store, or shop, or restaurant, and a black customer. 

More importantly, though, the wealthy Cuban class that fled the country in the very late 50's and early 60's absolutely considered themselves, if not "white" per se, certainly as close to it as you could get. They absolutely considered themselves socially a cut above (or several cuts above) other Hispanic groups, like Dominicans or Puerto Ricans - not least because those groups were frequently intermarried for generations with the native population. The same is true in South and Central America, where the descendants of the "purer" upper castes of European descent look down on those who came from families mixed with native blood.

In other words, many immigrants to this country from Latin countries are already well versed in our racial attitudes because they're used to it back home. What's new, for them, is that the "whitest" South American or Cuban family of immigrants here would still be considered "Hispanic" and lumped in with Mexicans, Guatemalans, and everyone else from south of the US border. And if you don't think that irked the fuck out of Cubans who thought of themselves as essentially white, you never met one of these dispossessed Cuban exiles.

I'd venture to say that the reason Cuban immigrants don't get quite as much backlash, though, as other Latin immigrants is that conservatives feel sorry for them. While Cuban refugees come from all social strata there, there's this myth of how everyone who fled Castro was a hard-working well-to-do businessman whose life's work was confiscated by the state - something that certainly happened, but not to nearly as many of the refugees as they make out. It's kind of like how virtually everyone with deep southern US roots thinks of themselves as displaced aristocrats who would have been living a much more leisurely and luxurious life except for that awful invasion by the North that destroyed all their property and turned it over to Yankees. The truth is that very, very few people are descendants of that leisure class, and most are in fact descended from what other generations frankly called poor white trash. (And I'm solidly in that group myself.)

Cubans managed to evoke a sympathetic response, particularly among anti-communist conservatives, resulting in much more favorable immigration treatment than any other population in the western hemisphere. None of that, to be clear, is to suggest Cubans don't deserve their hard-working reputation. But then so do the Puerto Ricans who pick up garbage in the streets of big East Coast cities, and the Salvadoran and Guatemalan maids who clean hotel rooms and office bathrooms and the like. They're all hard workers, but we certainly don't treat them all the same.

[hntnhole]

First, BootmanLA, thanks so much for the informative, incisive and clearly thought-out response.  It's sharing of views like this that I particularly enjoy about BZ.  I invariably read and learn from your thoughts.

My direct experience with the immigrant-groups is based on only a few years of interaction after moving to FL.  Chicago, where I lived my adult life until about 15 years ago, was somewhat limited, since there, immigrant communities often stayed, lived in their own neighborhoods.  Virtually all the Northern European groups had claimed a certain small area and centered their lives in that particular area, and the only group that lived everywhere were the Caucasians and the African Americans (which community centered mostly on the famed South Side - some areas of which were very wealthy.  A certain area of the near South Side, for example, is known as "Little Italy".  Cross one street, and you're in the Irish neighborhood, etc., and kids are taught from an early age not to cross those dividing lines on pain of getting beat up.  I don't even know where the Cuban community is back in Chicago.  Sad, huh?  

Thus, my reply to this thread was focused more on experience in business, as opposed to experience with cultural interaction.  As an immigrant to the US myself (as an infant), I am certainly familiar with this inclination to stick to your own folks, which is how I grew up and lived until I went away to school, discovering there's a big wide world out there.  Thus, my only "real-life" experience with these particular nationalities was limited.  Living in SoFl now, it's like learning new things all the time.  For instance: 

16 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

considered themselves, if not "white" per se, certainly as close to it as you could get.

You're the first person that has pointed that out; I had no idea.  While I understand how the level of melanin one possesses is determinative in cultural status, I had no idea that Cubans considered themselves as close to "white" as a nationality-group could get, yet retain their heritage.  All I "knew" is the standard, Batista-era perceptions.  

 

16 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

many immigrants to this country from Latin countries are already well versed in our racial attitudes because they're used to it back home

This is another fresh realization for me.  Of course, I knew from the earliest years how cultural identities factored into the instinct to hate "the other", but my educational experience was heavily focused on two areas:  music and business, and I achieved success in both.  That said, there are innumerable aspects of life that I am not educated in, and it's men like you who - after lo, these many years - help me (and a lot of others, I'm certain), continue to expand their knowledge.   

I could go on, but, essentially I want to express my thanks for your kindness and inclination to help others understand what they don't.  As we used to say back in Chgo, "you shit crushed pineapple" - which is definitely a colloquialism for First Class.  

Thanks again.  

[Guest]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:58 AM, Grschwanz said:

are falsely accusing Biden of becoming too old

"... falsely ..."?!? He's a slobbering, muttering, idiot. Senility has destroyed far too much of his mind for him to be considered still competent mentally.

[hntnhole]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:25 PM, BlackDude said:

And the Democrats aren’t doing a thing about it

I disagree.  Since legislation must originate in the House of Representatives, and then proceed to the Senate for adjustments or ratification, and then to the President for His/Her signature, it remains nothing but a lot of text on paper.  As the entire World knows, the R's have a razor-thin margin in the House, which is why the political process is stymied at present.  It's not that the D's aren't "doing anything about it", it's that their hands are tied due to processes laid down in the Constitution.