Ethics of Paid Sex - Are gay escorts and porn stars — prostitutes or ambassadors of gay culture?

[brnbk]

Is paying for sex especially gay sex, ever Ok?  Are gay porn stars and escorts — prostitutes, or ambassadors of gay culture, who keep alive what it means to be gay, in a world where the very act of gay sex seems unnatural and even nauseating to some. 

Should we as a community embrace gay – sex and sex related workers; Should the relations and social systems in the gay community reflect this, and if yeah, how so?

 

[BootmanLA]

I'm going to reject the options presented, for the following reasons:

1. I agree that escorts and porn stars are sex workers, just as are cam girls, cam boys, guys with sexually explicit OF or JFF or whatever accounts, street hookers, and more. They're all involved in businesses (as workers) where sex (be it physical contact with the purchaser, or stimulation via imagery and/or sound) is part of the product or service provided. But I don't put sex work into the category of "degrading or dehumanizing" - it CAN be, but that's not inherent in the work. It's inherent in the society in which the workers live.

2. I don't think the second option describes all sex workers. Some do it because they're broke. Some do it because they like the supplemental income it can provide. Some do it because they're substance addicts and need cash to feed their habit. I do agree that people who judge sex workers are wrong, but I don't think it's always sour grapes; sometimes it's just plain old disapproval, sometimes it's resentment that they can't control other people's sexuality.

3. I'm not sure that there is an inherent difference between gay and straight people. Perhaps between the *typical* or *average* gay and straight person - the former probably has more lifetime sex and more partners than the latter, for instance - but I don't see gay sex workers as any sort of ambassador for the gay sex experience (except, of course, in the literal sense that a straight person can satisfy any curiosity he might have about gay sex acts by watching porn). I think gay people bringing home partners to their families, and integrating gay partners into families, goes much farther to show the world what's important about being gay - we're pretty much just like you - than anything else.

[PozBearWI]

Day-um @BootmanLA; well said brother!!!

[PozBearWI]

None of the  options are mutually exclusive so the comparison seems pointless.  

[funpozbottom]

I was looking for the mike that @BootmanLA  dropped but I'm not crawling under the table to grab it so I'll just say, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with sex work and I don't care what anyone else does 'in bed' or if it involves the exchange of ... compensation.  As long as the parties involved are doing it willingly, I think they have the right to use their bodies however they want. 

[NWUSHorny]

I don't know that any of the 3 options fit for me. I don't have an issue with performing sexually for money, but would personally never exchange money just to have sex. While many porn performers are also escorts, it isn't a given. So here is my unique set of standards:

Would perform in porn if I can wear a mask. I have donned a mask, signed the release and had sex at 2 bi events that were filmed, since none of the footage of me was used I did not receive any compensation but if I did I would donate it to a HIV prevention charity. I would even consider making a few scenes where I was masked and putting it out on one of the amateur platforms and donating anything I made from it.

On paying for sex with an individual, I have refused both sides of the transaction. Sex is not, nor do I see it ever becoming a financial transaction for me.

[brnbk]

I think there are two side to this question which tries to decide on the morality of paying for sex. 

Firstly at the personal level - would I do it? – which of course comes with a potentially compromising question of  have I done sex work in the past — ever, and also the fundamental question of what constitutes paid sex. As many have pointed out: doesn't a married relationship often have the skeleton of paid sex – one partner often paying for the other person's upkeep and maintenance? 

Secondly Do i think it's right  which brings to light its own shades of right! like it could be right for others, but not for me. Some may claim such a stance is hypocritical but i believe such a judgement is ill informed. For e.g. I might think becoming a Pilot is a the "right thing to do" but not be the thing I do or plan on doing and might actually believe I would be happy being a flight attendant! So holding the view that something is right.. but not for me, is not necessarily hypocritical. 

The original motivation behind this question... had got to do with the more difficult question of homophobia and how gay people esp. gay Youth are still overwhelming burdened with it. Often gay men just don't have a choice but doing sex work in some kind of way to survive, coz they have been thrown out of their houses coz they are gay. Of course this depends on which part of the country and the World u live in, but homophobia is still a sad reality of our times and the poverty and homelessness that gay folks face is real. 

What constitutes paid sex work is also up for debate. Some people hold pornography to be art and not  paid sex work.  Actual prostitutes are generally thought of as doing sex work while escorts are classified as sex workers depending on the location. For e.g. In Japan there is a strict distance between escorts and clients and they might not be thought of as sex workers. 

This topic also brings up the question of can gay sex work ever be classified as sex work; since gay men do face homophobia in society and many in our culture do take great pains to hide their homosexuality and bisexuality and... people who do gay sex work are themselves marginalized and through their work, they bring homosexuality to groups such as rich closeted preachers and politicians or super-successful closeted gay men who otherwise would have no way of experiencing homosexuality. 

While i am almost persuaded to agree that two guys who live together, often professionals, and in a married relationship are a 'better' picture of homosexuality – or are they really?

 

[ErosWired]

I, also, found the options offered untenable, largely because they seem to derive from a premise that suggests that homosexuals are so inherently like prostitutes that prostitutes would make suitable representatives for the entire subculture. You ask if homosexuals in a stable, committed relationship are actually representative of homosexuals - if you take ‘homo’ away, it just leaves ‘sexual’ something all humans have in common. The fact that gays focus their attraction on the same gender has no bearing on their otherwise human-ness. A gay prostitute is no more a suitable representative for gays in general than a hooker would be for the hetero population.

[kinkysuBB]

If someone, gay or straight, is willingly engaging in sex work of whatever kind, then I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with a society that leaves people feeling they have no other option but to engage in sex work.

Regarding escorting specifically, I don’t personally pay for sex. Partly because I’ve no way of knowing if the escort has been forced in some way. Also because if I’m having sex with someone, I want them to want me, not my money. Whether that’s in the context of a loving relationship, or because they liked the look of my hole I’m willingly offering up in a dark room: it’s still me they want, not my money. Have I been paid for sex? No, but I’d have less of an issue with that, because I know I’d be doing it willingly and the client would again be choosing me, and whatever the reason is, it’s not my money.

Regarding porn, maybe this is moral hypocrisy, but I don’t have an issue with that in any way, at least for gay porn. Maybe it’s the degree of separation, maybe it’s that I perceive gay porn specifically to be less abusive than straight porn (even though I’m into the kinkier side of things, as a sub. I guess if I enjoy this stuff in real life, I can appreciate the sub enjoying doing an “abusive” porn scene. And there is a hell of a lot less sexual violence against gay men in the world than against women. Homophobic violence sure, but to me that’s a slightly different thing). Would I do porn? Yes, and I have, amateur and some low quality “pro” stuff I got paid a pittance for. It was part of me exploring my sexuality and it turned me on. It was awful stuff though, so I won’t be posting links!

Are sex workers ambassadors? I guess in a way they are. I got no gay sex education in school. I knew no other gay people when I was growing up. So I learned about gay sex from porn. I don’t think it’s the best way of learning about that, but it helped me. Now there are other types gay ambassadors that are probably more important, and it’s great that we have the balance. I also think young people can be easily influenced by porn, and the sheer amount of it easily accessible these days to very young kids on phones concerns me. But I think that’s an argument for better parenting and schooling and teaching about gay sex and relationships, not an argument for shunning sex workers or government censorship.

 

[BootmanLA]

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

What constitutes paid sex work is also up for debate. Some people hold pornography to be art and not  paid sex work.  Actual prostitutes are generally thought of as doing sex work while escorts are classified as sex workers depending on the location. For e.g. In Japan there is a strict distance between escorts and clients and they might not be thought of as sex workers. 

And of course, words like "escorting" can be (and often are) euphemisms for plain old prostitution, meaning there's no actual distinction between the two except the name used in different cases. "Escort" tends to be used when describing slightly higher-end arrangements, whereas "prostitution" is more of a technical term covering both "escorting" (as described earlier) and street hookers and everything in between. Certainly from a legal perspective, it doesn't matter whether you are labeled "escort" or not; if you agree to perform a sex act for compensation, you're committing prostitution. People often try to get around this by insisting that the payment is for the company of the escort, nothing more, and if they choose to have sex in some form, that's a personal choice. But it's a lot harder to maintain that pretense when the cops discover rate sheets, etc. that cover more than just "company."

[brnbk]

I totally forgot to include another important group: Masseurs. Where I grew up in Asia, masseurs where the closest you could find who u could have a gay experience within a paid context, or most contexts for that matter as being gay was illegal just 5 years ago, without it being seen as evil. 

Would you see porn stars as prostitutes, or as performers – no different than a actor or movie stars?

 

 

 

 

[BootmanLA]

14 hours ago, brnbk said:

I totally forgot to include another important group: Masseurs. Where I grew up in Asia, masseurs where the closest you could find who u could have a gay experience within a paid context, or most contexts for that matter as being gay was illegal just 5 years ago, without it being seen as evil. 

Would you see porn stars as prostitutes, or as performers – no different than a actor or movie stars?

Honestly, if the masseur is providing a "happy ending" for the massage, it's just prostitution with longer-than-average foreplay. That is: if what people are actually paying for is the orgasm - or at the very least, genital manipulation - then it's sex work, not really different than a hand job.

[Guest]

Sex work is the oldest profession human have ever known, idk why some still view as degrading! As a sex worker myself, I met many clients who I believe that I had a positive influence on them. 

[PozBearWI]

As well it should be @Tsjul.  Our species seems to have this weird relationship with sex - or at least many do.  Why we look at something so fucking pleasurable as sex as dirty is just twisted IMO.  I hired a porn star once.  Damned glad I did although honestly we spent most of our time talking and me learning more of his life to date.  It was as much meeting another human as a human as it was sex.  So not one regret.  That said, for me sex is something to be shared freely so I am as uncomfortable paying as I would be getting paid.  Still I pay for a massage and why should I look at any other sex work differently??

[loolikaa]

Absolutely you are just as slut as that girl getting paid for getting laid 😝 but it's okay Since it's money talking,  I wouldn't mind being called a prostitute if I get thousands for gettimg fucked