Ethics of Paid Sex - Are gay escorts and porn stars — prostitutes or ambassadors of gay culture?

[jagmanaz]

Sex work is cool with me for the most part.  Paying for or recieving money for sex isn't inherently wrong and if 2 consenting adults in a non-coercive setting is cool.  Wrongness comes when it becomes servititude, hostage, slave situation not of the choice of the other but forced upon them for what ever reason.

[ErosWired]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:40 PM, BootmanLA said:

Honestly, if the masseur is providing a "happy ending" for the massage, it's just prostitution with longer-than-average foreplay. That is: if what people are actually paying for is the orgasm - or at the very least, genital manipulation - then it's sex work, not really different than a hand job.

I have noticed a number of men whose profiles on Grindr and other such apps are up-front marketing their massage credentials. There’s no pretense of being on there for anything they’re personally looking for, they just cut to the chase and start with the sales pitch.

Now, there’s no ambiguity about the nature of the online viewers such a guy is talking to on the app where he finds them, and what their likely motivation is for being there, to wit: They ain’t there looking for a back rub. So, the guy clearly nudge-nudge-wink-wink-say-no-more knows he’s actually selling sexual work and calling it something that isn’t fooling anybody, or even really trying. And if that’s what he’s actually selling, that’s what they’re actually buying.

[ErosWired]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:58 PM, Tsjul said:

Sex work is the oldest profession human have ever known,

This idea stems from a line in a story Rudyard Kipling wrote in 1888, and people have been quoting it right and left ever since, but it is in fact a matter of some debate, and dependent upon definitions.

[viking8x6]

12 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Now, there’s no ambiguity about the nature of the online viewers such a guy is talking to on the app where he finds them, and what their likely motivation is for being there, to wit: They ain’t there looking for a back rub. So, the guy clearly nudge-nudge-wink-wink-say-no-more knows he’s actually selling sexual work and calling it something that isn’t fooling anybody, or even really trying

Except, of course, in the minds of those few of us who are actually looking for a back rub. Which happened to me one time - there is a guy near me on Grindr offering massage, and I took him up on it, because I wanted an actual therapeutic deep tissue massage because my back hurt like a sonofabitch. What I got was a passable erotic massage complete with penetration (both with toys and the real thing), but the actual muscle work and therapeutic value was minimal at best. Amusing in retrospect, but at the time I was rather peeved.

[PozBearWI]

Damn @viking8x6 those guys should be selling "massage" vs massage.  

[EuRawBull]

This topic has caught my eye because of the choices presented in the poll and the their description (which seem to have been copied and paste from a college / university assignment). But staying on the topic, here's my view:

- Escorting, Prostitution, Happy-ending massages and any other words describing sex for pay are all describing the same thing. Sure, in the world of prostitution there are degrees and classes, just like anywhere else: some are better and more sought after than the others.; some have higher prices because they can hold a conversation or can offer niche market services, e.g. BDSM.  No matter what label and words we put on it, the transaction is clear: someone pays for a service to be rendered, and someone else is providing the service. And that goes for both gay and straight, and anywhere in-between escorting.

- Whoever does escorting, (myself included) will do it for their own personal reasons. I don't know of anyone who thinks of themselves as 'ambassadors'. Reasons include, but not limited to:

- paying for living (rent, food, studies),

- paying for care of an ailing parent, sibiling or partner (you will be surprised how many of us do it for actual love for a parent in care)

- doing it for fun (I am not generalising but very few actually do it for the heck of it)

- Securing an old age retirement (many escorts I know don't come from wealthy families and with the little education they got in the public school, they are trying to make do)

- paying for an addiction (although they may have started as one of the above, use of drugs took over and they are now in a catch 22 game) - this is the category that I am actually feeling sorry about and, right or wrong, I am trying to do something about helping the ones I know. I am by no means a generous charity, but I always offer a place for them stay overnight, a warm home-cooked meal, and clean set of clothes.

Whoever thinks that prostituion is degrading, they better take a look at themselves first. At the end of the day, many of us go into some sort of prostitution. But as the meaning is selling sex for money, I can ask the question: Why is it degrading? There is no such thing as degrading when you sell your sex services for money. Some, as the escorts, do it by the hour. Others, are doing it for a hopefully short period of time, in the case of sugar daddy-son scenario. Others are doing it for other benefits, such as a green card (as I believe it is the case with a certain former model turned lady) . And that's just it: If money, as an universally accepted trading means, would not exist, than we would all resort to barter: have sex with me for two litres of cow milk and a pound of flour. Or, I''l have sex with you for life and you provide me with shelter, nice clothes and I will make you look pretty in front of your friends.

Where I draw the line is when someone is being pimped, coerced and/or forced to sell sex against their will. That is criminal; no ifs or buts. As long as I have free will and a say in whom I fuck, who fucks me, how, when and where I work, choosing to quit whenever I wish, I'm good with the arrangements.  And please, let's not mix the fantasy of being whored in a sex club by your dom master with being pimped for money. If an escort gets to keep all the money (minus the taxes and insurance LOL) then that is a job like any other, even if we like to acknowledge it or not. 

Escorting, or prostitution, or sex-working, or any of the other naming labels, is no different than selling your brain power for 8 hours or more in an office: You get to do what your boss tells you to do and you get paid. And when you get to suck your boss's cock good enough, you will be promoted to deputy office bitch: next level up where you get to suck an older dick but for more money.

As for the people, gay or straight, men or women, paying for sex.... They have tons of reasons: no partner, unhappy marriages, too young to have a family, a pregnant wife at home, a testicular cancer survivor at home who's on Prozac and has no desire for sex, etc.,  etc., etc....

I wish people would have respect for the others in all aspects of life and not look down on their fellow members of the society just because they sell sex for money. 

[ErosWired]

2 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

Except, of course, in the minds of those few of us who are actually looking for a back rub. Which happened to me one time - there is a guy near me on Grindr offering massage, and I took him up on it, because I wanted an actual therapeutic deep tissue massage because my back hurt like a sonofabitch. What I got was a passable erotic massage complete with penetration (both with toys and the real thing), but the actual muscle work and therapeutic value was minimal at best. Amusing in retrospect, but at the time I was rather peeved.

But did you log onto Grindr with the intent of finding a masseur? I don’t know why it’s called Grindr, but it isn’t called Massagr (or Rubbr). If you want a soothing massage, ‘grind’ isn’t the first word the brain associates. For me the name always invokes crotches grinding together. The question isn’t whether there are men legitimately in search of massage, or men legitimately offering it, but how sensible it is for either to expect to find the legitimate counterpart on a site primarily predicated to hookups?

Even if you legit went on there looking for a massage, you didn’t really find a legit practitioner. The dude you found lends weight to the suspicion that his ‘massage’ credentials are a storefront for a different service, because he gave such scant attention to the service advertised.

[NWUSHorny]

7 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

But did you log onto Grindr with the intent of finding a masseur? I don’t know why it’s called Grindr, but it isn’t called Massagr (or Rubbr). If you want a soothing massage, ‘grind’ isn’t the first word the brain associates. For me the name always invokes crotches grinding together. The question isn’t whether there are men legitimately in search of massage, or men legitimately offering it, but how sensible it is for either to expect to find the legitimate counterpart on a site primarily predicated to hookups?

Even if you legit went on there looking for a massage, you didn’t really find a legit practitioner. The dude you found lends weight to the suspicion that his ‘massage’ credentials are a storefront for a different service, because he gave such scant attention to the service advertised.

I don't know, one of my local bathhouses, where it is explicitly against the rules to charge other attendees for services, hosts radical rub down every Tuesday and a monthly spa night on a Saturday. I would guess that the monthly spa night is their biggest event of the month, and Tuesdays are at least as busy as Friday nights. I quit going on those nights because other attendees became indignant about the idea of actually having sex.

@viking8x6 I suspect the skill level of the masseurs is likely to be low, but very few are providing or looking for a happy ending.

[ErosWired]

7 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

I don't know, one of my local bathhouses, where it is explicitly against the rules to charge other attendees for services, hosts radical rub down every Tuesday and a monthly spa night on a Saturday. I would guess that the monthly spa night is their biggest event of the month, and Tuesdays are at least as busy as Friday nights. I quit going on those nights because other attendees became indignant about the idea of actually having sex.

I think that by now, given what you’ve consistently shared in your posts, the general consensus is that you must posting from a planet populated by bizarre aliens.

[PaganzofLA]

my 2¢ 

...it's the question that is flawed. 

sexuality vs autonomy vs economy 

the REAL Question lies somewhere in that trifactor, for example: Q: how would the decriminalization of prostitution negatively impact, say, homelessness? 

 

[T-Girl-Cumdumpster]

i think we are both. at least the good ones! xo

[Guest]

On 9/30/2023 at 10:27 PM, JimInWisc said:

As well it should be @Tsjul.  Our species seems to have this weird relationship with sex - or at least many do.  Why we look at something so fucking pleasurable as sex as dirty is just twisted IMO.  I hired a porn star once.  Damned glad I did although honestly we spent most of our time talking and me learning more of his life to date.  It was as much meeting another human as a human as it was sex.  So not one regret.  That said, for me sex is something to be shared freely so I am as uncomfortable paying as I would be getting paid.  Still I pay for a massage and why should I look at any other sex work differently??

Yeah, we have been taught that sex itself is a shameful act. 

[Guest]

If you charge money for sex, then you're a prostitute. Anyone who thinks this is in some way gay culture is saying there is no affection involved in gay sex: it's merely transactional.

I don't accept that.

[EuRawBull]

28 minutes ago, Yorksub said:

If you charge money for sex, then you're a prostitute. Anyone who thinks this is in some way gay culture is saying there is no affection involved in gay sex: it's merely transactional.

I don't accept that.

@Yorksub Could you please possibly explain your above statement? I have trouble understanding the point you are trying to make. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, EuRawBull said:

@Yorksub Could you please possibly explain your above statement? I have trouble understanding the point you are trying to make. 

The title of this topic is Ethics of Paid Sex - Are gay escorts and porn stars — prostitutes or ambassadors of gay culture? 

1> Yes, they ARE prostitutes.

2> They are NOT ambassadors of gay culture. If they were, they would be saying that gay sex is transactional; purely commercial.

Hope that clarifies my comment.