Cheating

[hntnhole]

When each guy in a close, loving relationship knows how much the other loves "outside" sex, I see no reason at all they should commit to a "hetero-normative" relationship.  "Cheating" is something that poorly-built relationships result in.  Attempting to emulate cultural contrivances that we don't identify with in the first place is like sailing a ship directly into a reef of rocks.  Sure, there will be survivors of the wreck, but at what cost, when the ship could have been steered away from the reef.

They should accept themselves - and each other - as they are - not as some other's think they should be.  Whatever it is that they "are" - interested in monogamy, interested in outside sex together, outside sex singly, whatever they need to do - should be done, and as often as the need arises.  Clearly, it's easiest if both guys are interested in the same thing sexually - be it a sexually "closed" relationship, a sexually "open" format, or any other kind of structure.  But then, "love" can be a difficult thing to define, too.  It can be many things, I suppose.  

If they actually do love each other - at least as I understand the term - they'd want their partner/lover to have whatever they need.  Love, food, clothing, shelter, as much wanton sex - singly or together - monogamous or the last thing from it - as they need, and whatever else too.  

To me, one guy restricting what the other "loved" guy needs, simply does not compute.  But then, "love" can be a difficult thing to define, too.  It can be many things, I suppose.  

[BootmanLA]

23 hours ago, TwinkChaserSlut said:

I agree with your assessment but some people get off on cheating. So even open relationships are too restrictive for them. 

Some people get off on choking other people to death. Telling them they can't do that may be "too restrictive for them", but it's still the right thing to do. Both harm the other person; the question is, do we condone harm simply because the person doing the harming "gets off" on it?

[BootmanLA]

14 hours ago, Orionxxx said:

That's me in a nutshell, cheating is such an intense rush I can't deny myself the pleasure; best of all is to cheat with another cheater, so that both of us are putting our need for cock and cum above whatever vows or promises we've made to a wife or husband. Particularly love to send a married man home to wifey totally drained, full of new thoughts and eager for more.

Sure you CAN deny yourself the pleasure; you just don't want to, so you don't. You make it sound like you have no choice at all. 

[BootmanLA]

9 hours ago, hntnhole said:

When each guy in a close, loving relationship knows how much the other loves "outside" sex, I see no reason at all they should commit to a "hetero-normative" relationship.  "Cheating" is something that poorly-built relationships result in.  Attempting to emulate cultural contrivances that we don't identify with in the first place is like sailing a ship directly into a reef of rocks.  Sure, there will be survivors of the wreck, but at what cost, when the ship could have been steered away from the reef.

They should accept themselves - and each other - as they are - not as some other's think they should be.  Whatever it is that they "are" - interested in monogamy, interested in outside sex together, outside sex singly, whatever they need to do - should be done, and as often as the need arises.  Clearly, it's easiest if both guys are interested in the same thing sexually - be it a sexually "closed" relationship, a sexually "open" format, or any other kind of structure.  But then, "love" can be a difficult thing to define, too.  It can be many things, I suppose.  

If they actually do love each other - at least as I understand the term - they'd want their partner/lover to have whatever they need.  Love, food, clothing, shelter, as much wanton sex - singly or together - monogamous or the last thing from it - as they need, and whatever else too.  

To me, one guy restricting what the other "loved" guy needs, simply does not compute.  But then, "love" can be a difficult thing to define, too.  It can be many things, I suppose.  

I agree that relationships should be based on compatible outlooks. But where you are looking at it as the monogamous-preferring guy "restricting" what the other guy needs; I look at it as the non-monogamous one making a promise to do something he has no intention of fulfilling.

And that's the problem I have with this: yes, I understand that even people who think they want monogamy may be tempted by someone else, and they may screw up and cheat. It's not that I think cheating is unforgiveable. As Dan Savage says, monogamy is hard, and isolated instances of slipping up ought to be manageable in an otherwise solid and long-term relationship. But the key is "isolated".

What I'm seeing here is a steady stream of asshole personalities bragging about how they actually get off on cheating, so they lie and tell someone they'll be monogamous just so they can have the thrill of cheating. That's a shit thing to do, done by shitty people.

[hntnhole]

9 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

But where you are looking at it as the monogamous-preferring guy "restricting" what the other guy needs; I look at it as the non-monogamous one making a promise to do something he has no intention of fulfilling.

Yes, but by a prior mutual agreement.  If both guys agree to something - wash the dishes twice a week, whatever - and one of them subsequently avoids that, it's obvious, and becomes a matter for either discussion re-aligning assignments.  What I didn't make clear, would be when the "cheater" has agreed to not cheat, or get outside sex only x number of times a day - a week - a month - whatever, then he's the one that feels restricted from doing what he wants to do, despite promising not to.  

That sense - feeling - of being forced by his sexual Lusts to keep his wandering Cock or Hole away from other men is where the dishonesty begins to rot the relationship.  I think that gay guys in general, and raw gay guys in particular need to be up front about what they expect out of a relationship. Relationships are living, breathing things - they need to be cared for honestly. 

I have nothing at all against sexual wanton behavior being an important - maybe even crucial - part of any relationship.  My point is, getting off on whoring is a lot different than getting off on lying.  

[BootmanLA]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:23 AM, hntnhole said:

That sense - feeling - of being forced by his sexual Lusts to keep his wandering Cock or Hole away from other men is where the dishonesty begins to rot the relationship. 

I understand that sense, but it's misplaced. He's being forced because he agreed to it (and you and I agree he shouldn't have agreed to it if he had no plans to abide by that agreement). That happens - people outright knowingly lie going into relationships promising one thing while fully intending not to live up to that promise - and it's reprehensible, but I don't think that's the case for a majority of cheaters. (The number here who insist that they get off on it, etc. I think is a combination of fapping material and fantasies about being transgressive, with a relatively small number who actually do that.)

The majority of cheaters, on the other hand, expect to abide by whatever the rules are, but something changes. Desire for their partner wanes, too many other desirable men are in reasonable proximity, whatever - and sadly, far too many men hate having difficult conversations like "I think we should be free to see other people, but I don't want us to end this. How do you feel about that?" and just follow their lusts and hope and pray they don't get caught and torch their relationship.

And I do get that most of that is socialization to demand monogamy, because that's what society as a whole holds up as an ideal, even when it's clear that a large portion of the population can't live up to that ideal. I'm also of the opinion that (a) cheating ought to be a forgiveable offense, especially if the cheater is contrite, (b) cheating is a sign that maybe monogamy isn't going to work for these two, and (c) it's better to hash out what's acceptable, what each partner can live with, so that whatever relationship they do have doesn't turn to shit trying to live up to unattainable ideals while covering up behavior. 

[hntnhole]

16 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I'm also of the opinion that (a) cheating ought to be a forgiveable offense, especially if the cheater is contrite, (b) cheating is a sign that maybe monogamy isn't going to work for these two, and (c) it's better to hash out what's acceptable, what each partner can live with, so that whatever relationship they do have doesn't turn to shit trying to live up to unattainable ideals while covering up behavior. 

I agree with the above; it's preferable that issues get worked out, and the greater attraction between the two gets a second chance.  The basic thing is, whether the "cheater" has the balls to be upfront with his (presumed) loved one.  Disappointments always come in our lives, and in some way or another; what's important is how we handle them.  Serial cheating, however, is almost certainly an expression of some other, deeper issue.