Ms Haley slips and falls ...

[hntnhole]

... directly into a thick, rich, reeking, rotted, rancid cowpie of South Carolina's history; the state where the Civil War's first shots were fired.  While it's true that the institution of slavery wasn't the direct cause of the war, that institution was the glaring and principal flaw in the cause.  

Ever since the Industrial Revolution began to take shape in England, in the mid-1700's, the conflict between agrarian economies and industrialized ones gradually became more and more intense everywhere that clash occurred.  Given that even before the United States was formally declared, the British colonists on the East Coast had formed "colonies" (of said Empire) to engage in agrarian activities, made possible not by the labor of the colonists, but by the actions of the British Empire.  The colonists were supplied with slaves, stolen from Africa (sometimes even sold to the British by their own competing tribes in that continent), which made it possible for the pale British colonists to be easily discerned from the imported, bought and paid for, more richly-hued slaves abducted from their homeland.  

The fledgling United States Government was initially comprised mostly by the wealthy 'Plantocracy" in the southern colonies; a substantial number of our "Founding Fathers" owned slaves, thus profiting from this hideous institution.  Interestingly, many immigrants wound up in the Northern, freshly formed States, where the burgeoning industrialization offered more opportunities in  employment, rather than the more weather-friendly South, resulting in greater and greater industrialization, more and more men of voting age, thus more representation in Congress, and an increasingly more anti-slavery mindset in the North.  

Thus, while no one but the Plantocracy in the South actually thought highly of the Institution of slavery (non-slave owners who were mere small farmers) often resented their wealthy, pale cousins, and never supported that institution.  The Southern States began losing that original dominance in the Government, which set the table for the inevitable conflict.  One glance at a map of the infrastructure of the South vs. the North in 1860 demonstrates clearly which side would win if war broke out, yet the false pride of the of the Planter Class drove the nation into that civil war.  

Back to ms Haley:  When asked directly by a reporter what she thought about slavery, the suave politician was stunned into silence.  She had not one word to say, turned her back on the reporter, took a few steps, turned around and muttered "what do you want me to say?".  She utterly failed to even attempt a response to the reporter.  She was able previously to mutter into the microphone during a "debate" that MagaSmarmy was "scum", but unable to offer one word of regret about the institutionalized hellish racism we call "slavery". 

It is this same moral decay that divides us still, and we haven't properly dealt with it to this day.  Yes, some progress had been achieved, but there's still a substantial advancement of Justice to aspire to.  The concept of White Privilege is still tearing at the fabric of our Nation, and the "war" - while not being waged militarily yet, is a very real potential.  

Stand for Justice.  Stand for Equality.  Stand for the Greater Good.  Anything less, and we may well slip and fall into the aforementioned cowpie.  

 

 

 

[BlackDude]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:38 AM, hntnhole said:

... directly into a thick, rich, reeking, rotted, rancid cowpie of South Carolina's history; the state where the Civil War's first shots were fired.  While it's true that the institution of slavery wasn't the direct cause of the war, that institution was the glaring and principal flaw in the cause.  

Ever since the Industrial Revolution began to take shape in England, in the mid-1700's, the conflict between agrarian economies and industrialized ones gradually became more and more intense everywhere that clash occurred.  Given that even before the United States was formally declared, the British colonists on the East Coast had formed "colonies" (of said Empire) to engage in agrarian activities, made possible not by the labor of the colonists, but by the actions of the British Empire.  The colonists were supplied with slaves, stolen from Africa (sometimes even sold to the British by their own competing tribes in that continent), which made it possible for the pale British colonists to be easily discerned from the imported, bought and paid for, more richly-hued slaves abducted from their homeland.  

The fledgling United States Government was initially comprised mostly by the wealthy 'Plantocracy" in the southern colonies; a substantial number of our "Founding Fathers" owned slaves, thus profiting from this hideous institution.  Interestingly, many immigrants wound up in the Northern, freshly formed States, where the burgeoning industrialization offered more opportunities in  employment, rather than the more weather-friendly South, resulting in greater and greater industrialization, more and more men of voting age, thus more representation in Congress, and an increasingly more anti-slavery mindset in the North.  

Thus, while no one but the Plantocracy in the South actually thought highly of the Institution of slavery (non-slave owners who were mere small farmers) often resented their wealthy, pale cousins, and never supported that institution.  The Southern States began losing that original dominance in the Government, which set the table for the inevitable conflict.  One glance at a map of the infrastructure of the South vs. the North in 1860 demonstrates clearly which side would win if war broke out, yet the false pride of the of the Planter Class drove the nation into that civil war.  

Back to ms Haley:  When asked directly by a reporter what she thought about slavery, the suave politician was stunned into silence.  She had not one word to say, turned her back on the reporter, took a few steps, turned around and muttered "what do you want me to say?".  She utterly failed to even attempt a response to the reporter.  She was able previously to mutter into the microphone during a "debate" that MagaSmarmy was "scum", but unable to offer one word of regret about the institutionalized hellish racism we call "slavery". 

It is this same moral decay that divides us still, and we haven't properly dealt with it to this day.  Yes, some progress had been achieved, but there's still a substantial advancement of Justice to aspire to.  The concept of White Privilege is still tearing at the fabric of our Nation, and the "war" - while not being waged militarily yet, is a very real potential.  

Stand for Justice.  Stand for Equality.  Stand for the Greater Good.  Anything less, and we may well slip and fall into the aforementioned cowpie.  

 

 

 

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I have two dissenting points:

1. The north was not anti-slavery. Many were simply against the expansion of slavery. Many of the presidential candidates during this time ran on this ideology. They didn’t mind the status quo

2. The economics of slavery was the foundation of the South’s argument for succession, thus the reason for the war. And while many poorer farmers may have resented their wealthier slave holding neighbors, they nonetheless fought in the war because they liked the social and psychological benefits of oppressing the black slaves. 
 

In the long run, this is a moot point. She never had a chance to win, and only exposed how many “POC” desire to be the hand maidens of WS. Black voters are watching closely.

Edited January 1 by BlackDude

[hntnhole]

15 hours ago, BlackDude said:

The north was not anti-slavery

I would question that generalization, since many folks in the North objected on moral grounds.  To be fair, they didn't have any "skin in the game" either, so it wasn't all that tough to abhor that institution.  I grew up in a large metro area in Northern IL, and in the older parts of town there were a number of tunnels, facilities, remnants of the "Underground Railroad"  As schoolkids we were able to tour some of them.  You do raise a good point though:  it's easy to look down on a practice that you have no benefit from.  

15 hours ago, BlackDude said:

Many were simply against the expansion of slavery

You're correct, of course.  I think that many in the North sensed that a policy of "let those slaveholders be, they'll have to answer to God - not to me" was common.  There were zealous anti-slavery groups too, but they weren't numerous/strong enough to drive national policy.  It's not that Northerners "didn't mind" - it's more that the disruption of ending slavery would mean war, and there weren't enough folks with that kind of backbone until Ft. Sumpter happened.

I agree that Ms Haley has/had only the slimmest of chances, and her inability to admit to what happened and why will cost her ambitions dearly.  We're all watching.  

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[brnbk]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:38 AM, hntnhole said:

 

Ever since the Industrial Revolution began to take shape in England, in the mid-1700's, the conflict between agrarian economies and industrialized ones gradually became more and more intense everywhere that clash occurred.  Given that even before the United States was formally declared, the British colonists on the East Coast had formed "colonies" (of said Empire) to engage in agrarian activities, made possible not by the labor of the colonists, but by the actions of the British Empire.  The colonists were supplied with slaves, stolen from Africa (sometimes even sold to the British by their own competing tribes in that continent), which made it possible for the pale British colonists to be easily discerned from the imported, bought and paid for, more richly-hued slaves abducted from their homeland.  

The fledgling United States Government was initially comprised mostly by the wealthy 'Plantocracy" in the southern colonies; a substantial number of our "Founding Fathers" owned slaves, thus profiting from this hideous institution.  Interestingly, many immigrants wound up in the Northern, freshly formed States, where the burgeoning industrialization offered more opportunities in  employment, rather than the more weather-friendly South, resulting in greater and greater industrialization, more and more men of voting age, thus more representation in Congress, and an increasingly more anti-slavery mindset in the North.  ....................................Back to ms Haley:  When asked directly by a reporter what she thought about slavery, the suave politician was stunned into silence.  She had not one word to say, turned her back on the reporter, took a few steps, turned around and muttered "what do you want me to say?".  She utterly failed to even attempt a response to the reporter. 

I fear you are looking at the mote in thy brother's eye i.e. Ms. Nikki Hailey and fail to see the mote in thine own eye; your account of the formation of the United States  fails to even utter a word about the Native Americans. When the the British tribes landed up in North America, the Native Americans and their continent was far richer than Europe with a standard of living, science and industrialization that was the envy of Europe. No wonder u wanted to come to someone else's homeland and once u got there, the deliberate policy of disease and destruction, saw around 95 % of the Native American population die and their wealth, industries and farms seized by the Europeans on the claims that the white Christian god hates the heathens and has sanctions this villainous carnage. 

Neither the U.S. or any of the white governments in America have ever compensated the Native Americans in any meaningful way for the loss of  their person, property and wealth, and the Natives todays are one of the poorest people in America, in their own continent. 

Why the silence when it comes to the real and continuing victims of the formation of the United States??

Edited January 3 by brnbk

[BlackDude]

4 hours ago, brnbk said:

I fear you are looking at the mote in thy brother's eye i.e. Ms. Nikki Hailey and fail to see the mote in thine own eye; your account of the formation of the United States  fails to even utter a word about the Native Americans. When the the British tribes landed up in North America, the Native Americans and their continent was far richer than Europe with a standard of living, science and industrialization that was the envy of Europe. No wonder u wanted to come to someone else's homeland and once u got there, the deliberate policy of disease and destruction, saw around 95 % of the Native American population die and their wealth, industries and farms seized by the Europeans on the claims that the white Christian god hates the heathens and has sanctions this villainous carnage. 

Neither the U.S. or any of the white governments in America have ever compensated the Native Americans in any meaningful way for the loss of  their person, property and wealth, and the Natives todays are one of the poorest people in America, in their own continent. 

Why the silence when it comes to the real and continuing victims of the formation of the United States??

Many of the native Americans have been compensated. Least we not forget,  Many of them have violated treaties that mandated they share resources with the Freedman, who were in their tribes, while openly sharing resources to people who are not even in Native American, but Jess appeared on the Dawes Rolls.

 

 

[hntnhole]

16 hours ago, brnbk said:

I fear you are looking at the mote in thy brother's eye

Actually, not at all. 

I have commented on the depopulation of the Native Americans a number of times on this site.  The wholesale murder of the indigenous population of the North American Continent was clearly - obviously - horrifically - the "original sin" of the invaders.  

That hellish issue however, was not a part of the Original Post; far from it.  

16 hours ago, brnbk said:

No wonder u wanted to come

Actually, that is neither germane to the OP, and not the case personally.  I was an infant; less than one year old when my parents emigrated to the US, and thus had no choice in the decision.

16 hours ago, brnbk said:

Why the silence when it comes to the real and continuing victims of the formation of the United States??

Again, because that horrific issue is not the subject of the Original Post.  I know that threads often "drift" into other subject areas, which is ok with me regarding other guy's posts.  I try to keep to the discourse to the original topic when I create the topic, and if/when that gets thoroughly chewed over, create a new post to discuss whatever the next issue happens to be. 

I'm not quite sure how we "search" other guys contributions, but there must be some way, in the event you're interested in my perspective regarding the Native American issue.

Thanks for your responses.  

[brnbk]

20 hours ago, hntnhole said:

.............The wholesale murder of the indigenous population of the North American Continent was clearly - obviously - horrifically - the "original sin" of the invaders.  

That hellish issue however, was not a part of the Original Post; far from it.  

............. I was an infant; less than one year old when my parents emigrated to the US, and thus had no choice in the decision.

Again, because that horrific issue is not the subject of the Original Post.......

I'm not quite sure how we "search" other guys contributions, but there must be some way, in the event you're interested in my perspective regarding the Native American issue.

Thanks for your responses.  

 

I did not intend to make it sound personal — i.e. these where your personal views or actions — and apologize if it came across that way. 

I appreciate the invitation to go through you previous comments on the issue, and will take it up. 

 

[brnbk]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:39 PM, hntnhole said:

 

I'm not quite sure how we "search" other guys contributions, but there must be some way, in the event you're interested in my perspective regarding the Native American issue.

Thanks for your responses.  

I tried doing a "Search" on your profile, and it will only show the last 5 or 7 posts you made, and thus, unfortunately, I am not able to access any of those where u referred to the Native Americans. If you would like to, please, feel free to either send me a link to those posts, here or in a message.  It is not my place to sit in judgement of anyone, and when I raised the issue - It wasn't personally directed at you and again apologize, if it came across that way. 

Thank you for your generosity, in engaging with this important question.

 

 

[hntnhole]

Wellllllllll .......... thanks for the reply, but I'm afraid I don't know how to do that either.  I always had secretaries to figure out how to make the damn computers work ... 

No apologies needed - the discourse is what I come to BZ for !!!  

I'll go back through some of the "likely" posts and see what I can find.  It won't be today or tomorrow, but - I'll look for some.  

Again, thanks for your kind words.  

[viking8x6]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:39 PM, hntnhole said:

I'm not quite sure how we "search" other guys contributions, but there must be some way, in the event you're interested in my perspective regarding the Native American issue.

 

2 hours ago, brnbk said:

I tried doing a "Search" on your profile, and it will only show the last 5 or 7 posts you made

 

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

thanks for the reply, but I'm afraid I don't know how to do that either.  I always had secretaries to figure out how to make the damn computers work ...

...and here you have moderators!

 

Here's how:

1. Go to the home page and use the Search box in the upper right corner to search for "Native American" with the location drop-down set to "Everywhere" - 126 results
2. Select the "More Search Options" button (just below the full-screen-width search box, at the right margin) to open the advanced search interface
3. Choose "+ Search by Author" and enter "hntnhole" in the Author box (choose from the autocomplete dropdown). Then click "Search Again" at the right side of the full-screen-width search box. Voila! 5 results.

 

[brnbk]

6 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

...and here you have moderators!..........

Thank you so much!!!!!!! and I feel like  a fool, for not figuring that i could probably search the term!

I now do know why I keep coming back to this site, though. Very interesting discussions and sweet moderators. 

Much appreciated 🌻🎉

Edited January 9 by brnbk

[hntnhole]

18 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

...and here you have moderators!

Oh wow - Thanks so much, viking8x6 !!!!!!!   Computers can do so much, but only if you know how to tell them what to do !! 

I'm going to save your instructions - write them down in cursive if I have to .... 

Many thanks !!! 

[brnbk]

I am grateful for the invitation to look at your 'record' on Native American issues, and am happy to report that, I think, you do acknowledge the plight of the Native Americans and the truth of the Americas. Indeed as you rightly state, ever non Native-American is an immigrant in this beautiful continent. 

  

On 12/9/2023 at 12:05 PM, hntnhole said:

As I see it, unless they have Native American blood in their veins, they're immigrants too.  So where does the hatreds finally stop? 

 

 

On 11/16/2022 at 5:04 PM, hntnhole said:

 To the immigration issue:  unless we have Native American blood coursing through our veins, we are either immigrants ourselves, or descendants of immigrants.  

 

 

  

On 1/30/2022 at 8:01 PM, hntnhole said:

1.  These are social depravities, with strong, debilitating affects on the underserved in the US.  Unless one happens to be a full-blooded Indigenous Native American (which group has suffered mightily at the hands of the Government), you are either an immigrant or the descendant of one, and almost certainly not Caucasian. 

 

Edited January 14 by brnbk

[brnbk]

The issue i wished to raise was how there is a complete erasure of Native American history and heritage, as if this was a continent that was bereft of civilization before the White European god with his army of beggars on a boat landed at mythical Mayflower to "christianize" the Americans; and boy oh boy, has this been a profitable endeavor of genocide, murder, loots and robbery for the "Christians!".

The Native American has entirely been eradicated from his own continent and both the South and the North Americans are practically slaves of the Europeans who now determine where they can live(reservations), what gods they are allowed to worship(conversion to "Christianity"), how much of their own historical knowledge, whose achievements in science and technology rivalled the Europeans, they are able to transmit - thanks to the Inquisition of both the Catholic and Protestant "missionaries". 
 
America i.e. the United States is founded on someone else STOLEN land and WEALTH.....

[brnbk]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:39 PM, hntnhole said:

 

Again, because that horrific issue is not the subject of the Original Post.  I know that threads often "drift" into other subject areas, which is ok with me regarding other guy's posts.  I try to keep to the discourse to the original topic when I create the topic, and if/when that gets thoroughly chewed over, create a new post to discuss whatever the next issue happens to be. 

Fair Enough! 
 

To the issue that u raised about Nikki Hailey dodging the issue of slavery, with the added implication that she somehow harbors anti-black sentiment; could it be the case that she is being misunderstood? She never really thought that anyone would question that the Civil War was primarily about slavery. After all, you yourself state that slavery wasn't the direct cause of the war!

On 12/28/2023 at 11:38 AM, hntnhole said:

... directly into a thick, rich, reeking, rotted, rancid cowpie of South Carolina's history; the state where the Civil War's first shots were fired.  While it's true that the institution of slavery wasn't the direct cause of the war, that institution was the glaring and principal flaw in the cause.  ..

 

Just to be clear. I am not a fan of Nikki Hailey. I personally think she is more white than the Whites! She is an anti trans, selfish, rich, self serving person who totally forgets that there was a time, she was the child of an immigrant and was treated really badly in the southern state, that she now seems to think is some kind of christian heaven on earth and a light to the rest of the United States and indeed even the world. 

My point is, is her response being misunderstood or misstated?