Who Read The Real Anthony Fauci

[insatiableholeinTO]

10 hours ago, NEDenver said:

 

Why the actual fuck do I need to be polite to a moron who uses old faked studies to pretend still, in twenty-motherfucking-twenty-four that vaccines cause autism?  He’s a crack pot who did some good environmental law work and then poisoned his legacy with pseudoscience.  The moron actively pushes that the HIV virus doesn’t cause AIDS.  Even his former colleagues distanced themselves from him.  I can’t imagine credulously reading anything he produced anymore, unless he goes back to litigating mountaintop removal mining.

So instead of answering about Faucci you go and attack RFK. Gotcha

[insatiableholeinTO]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:25 AM, viking8x6 said:

Moderator's note:

Discussion of the book referenced by the original poster is OK. Discussion of practical health strategies is OK. Promotion of denialism is NOT. BZ policy forbids promotion of conspiracy theories and demonstrably false statements.

[think before following links] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism

May I inquire as to the conspiracy theory you mentioned? And who decides what is and isn't a conspiracy theory?

[viking8x6]

7 minutes ago, insatiableholeinTO said:

May I inquire as to the conspiracy theory you mentioned? And who decides what is and isn't a conspiracy theory?

From the web page I cited in my post:

Quote

In the book, Shenton claims that AIDS is a conspiracy created by pharmaceutical companies to make money from selling antiretroviral drugs.

That would be a conspiracy theory.

On BZ, the moderation staff decides what is and isn't a conspiracy theory, because that's our (volunteer) job.

[norefusal]

help me with the math here:

so big pharma had the technology and knowledge to create a new deadly virus in order to make money off the remedy. but they had no remedy, no product for sale ready to go. so they just went ahead and unleashed a virus on the public and only then began throwing $$$$ at scientists in order to invent a remedy, which took years and years and countless $$$ not to mention the initial investment in order to engineer the virus. and they willing spent a decade herroraging $$ in faith that the eventual remedy would make them profits beyond recouping expense? 

are they drug addicts? because that doesn't sound like logical business investing to me. it's literally chaos. and just exactly how evil does one have to be to be ok with mass death over time just for potential profit? 

[50latinos]

2 hours ago, norefusal said:

help me with the math here:

so big pharma had the technology and knowledge to create a new deadly virus in order to make money off the remedy. but they had no remedy, no product for sale ready to go. so they just went ahead and unleashed a virus on the public and only then began throwing $$$$ at scientists in order to invent a remedy, which took years and years and countless $$$ not to mention the initial investment in order to engineer the virus. and they willing spent a decade herroraging $$ in faith that the eventual remedy would make them profits beyond recouping expense? 

are they drug addicts? because that doesn't sound like logical business investing to me. it's literally chaos. and just exactly how evil does one have to be to be ok with mass death over time just for potential profit? 

Great point!! Conspiracy theories never hold well.

[viking8x6]

2 hours ago, norefusal said:

and they willing spent a decade hemorrhaging $$ in faith that the eventual remedy would make them profits beyond recouping expense? 

You're talking about Big Pharma here. They do that all the time anyway. So logically, why would they bother to spend a lot of extra time and money inventing viruses (which they didn't really have the technology to do in 1965 anyway)? Nature saved them the trouble. And continues to do so.

[NEDenver]

14 hours ago, insatiableholeinTO said:

So instead of answering about Faucci you go and attack RFK. Gotcha

I mean, I’m not the one complaining about experimental drugs being used to treat a new virus.  When they say, “novel virus,” it means new, not that it’s a book.  Every treatment is experimental because it’s new.  And I was involved in one of those experiments when the VA tested hydroxychloroquine.  Fortunately the test ended in 3 or 4 days, and I wasn’t one of the people who died to honor a right wing conspiracy.  Because hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin (both made by pharmaceutical companies) are not appropriate treatments for a coronavirus, which is what Fauci tried to tell the sludge-brained while right wing propagandists were manipulating them.  But, no.  That doesn’t fit the bedtime stories told to and then repeated by high density kumquats to make them more comfortable in their underschooled mediocrity.

The stupid book written by stupid man does not deserve a point by point rebuttal for bad faith actors.  It’s just another Gish gallop that no one has time for.

Pick better heroes and not just grifters manipulating you for profit.

[NWUSHorny]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:22 AM, BootmanLA said:

I'm unaware of ANY compound, medication, drug, solvent, supplement, chemical, or whatever that can treat both a virus and a living organism like plasmodium (or a bacterium, or whatever). 

I don't disagree with BootmanLA in general, but there are compounds used for wildly divergent uses.

Hydroxychloroquine, which is used to treat malaria, and Ivermectin which is used for a variety of parasites were both tested against COVID because they had characteristics that at least some scientists thought had promise, which is a good thing. However the studies stopped once the scientists determined they were not effective treatments for COVID, the conspiracists somehow found out about the initial promise, and then completely ignored the rest of the research. 

[NEDenver]

2 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

I don't disagree with BootmanLA in general, but there are compounds used for wildly divergent uses.

Hydroxychloroquine, which is used to treat malaria, and Ivermectin which is used for a variety of parasites were both tested against COVID because they had characteristics that at least some scientists thought had promise, which is a good thing. However the studies stopped once the scientists determined they were not effective treatments for COVID, the conspiracists somehow found out about the initial promise, and then completely ignored the rest of the research. 

Hydroxychloroquine was tested because a bunch of right wing nut jobs kept complaining that it wasn’t being tested.  But neither were any number of antibiotics or anti-inflammatories or anti retro-virals, muscle relaxers, depressants, meth, etc.  They just latched onto hydroxychloroquine (and ivermectin) because some right wing grifting manipulators pretended it was real despite known side effects, especially heart-related, that were also exacerbated by the coronavirus.  Again, the VA caved to pressure, including from right wing veterans for 3 or 4 days while I was inpatient at a va hospital.  Then it ended and wasn’t in my medication list again.

Granted this pisses me off more because it’s personal and a bunch of yahoos used me as a Guinea pig with absolutely no reason to think it should work despite increasing cardiac risks.

[Theo8]

23 hours ago, insatiableholeinTO said:

So instead of answering about Faucci you go and attack RFK. Gotcha

RFK is batshit crazy and no, I won't sit and list all the crazy shit he's said over the years.  His own family has denounced him.  I'll take their word for it over some yahoo on the internet.  

[NWUSHorny]

6 hours ago, NEDenver said:

Hydroxychloroquine was tested because a bunch of right wing nut jobs kept complaining that it wasn’t being tested.  But neither were any number of antibiotics or anti-inflammatories or anti retro-virals, muscle relaxers, depressants, meth, etc.  They just latched onto hydroxychloroquine (and ivermectin) because some right wing grifting manipulators pretended it was real despite known side effects, especially heart-related, that were also exacerbated by the coronavirus.  Again, the VA caved to pressure, including from right wing veterans for 3 or 4 days while I was inpatient at a va hospital.  Then it ended and wasn’t in my medication list again.

Granted this pisses me off more because it’s personal and a bunch of yahoos used me as a Guinea pig with absolutely no reason to think it should work despite increasing cardiac risks.

I don't think it was initially tested for that reason, the testing continued for longer than it should have been, including the unmerited experiment on VA patient for that reason, primarily due to a the opinion of a complete idiot and draft dodger.

[Sfmike64]

On 5/22/2024 at 10:02 PM, insatiableholeinTO said:

May I inquire as to the conspiracy theory you mentioned? And who decides what is and isn't a conspiracy theory?

No one should engage with you because you refuse basic science. It's like talking to someone who thinks the earth is flat. HIV. causes AIDS and killed millions of people. PERIOD.

[nanana]

There’s too much ad hominem here guys. You know someone isn’t a scientist when they resort to this technique of argument.  Some people get their reality from inquiry, others get their reality from believing an authority, regardless of how corrupt it is. Misdesigned tests can certainly discredit a drug and cause overdoses and mistiming so the drug is irrelevant. That doesn’t necessarily mean that well designed protocols using the same drug wouldn’t be highly effective. I say toMAYto you say toMAHto let’s call the whole thing off. If you can’t cite any fact or evidence then at least please consider that there’s room for more than one interpretation. 

Edited May 25 by nanana
forgot to negate a verb

[nanana]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:22 AM, BootmanLA said:

But there was never ANY - repeat, ANY - valid clinical evidence whatsoever that ivermectin treated COVID-19 successfully.

There are numerous studies as cited by Tess Lawrie and Peter McCulloch. Maybe folks will use a label to demonize  them too so they don’t have to think deeply about the argument. Calling people names like right-wing nut job only works in an echo chamber.  

[insatiableholeinTO]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:12 PM, viking8x6 said:

From the web page I cited in my post:

That would be a conspiracy theory.

On BZ, the moderation staff decides what is and isn't a conspiracy theory, because that's our (volunteer) job.

Well I didn't bring up the subjects of AIDS or HIV. My topic was on vaccine, specifically the needle they tell you works against COVID. I never once mentioned AIDS or HIV.