What are you favourite Koran quotes?

[ktopper]

9 hours ago, funpozbottom said:

I think that calls for another glass of Jameson!

 

I read the Koran. Can't remember any of it.  Also read the Bible, Upanishads, teaching of the Buddha, Confucius, Chang Tzu, and more. Can't remember them either. For true insight, I recommend the writings of Dorothy Parker, Samuel Clemons, Groucho Marx, and Ben Franklin. But I think the best religious quote I know is one of my own:  "Anything that needs to be interpreted from the Divine, can be manipulated by men."

 

I'm out of Jameson. My mooching neighbor finished it off along with a couple of my cigars. To be fair, I do get quite a bit of help out of him on various projects so I don't begrudge him (too much) a drink and cigar. I did however, invest in a jug of Courvoisier VSOP this morning and had a taste or three of that earlier.

I haven't read many religious screeds but did enjoy the Bhagavad Gita which I believe is included in the Upanishads. Also read some stuff by an Indian who wrote, I think, under the name of Aurobindo in which he made the case that we are not only evolving biologically but also into higher states of consciousness. That recalled to me an obscure little book written by an Englishman in 1900 or 1901 in which he said much the same thing. I think it was "Cosmic Consciousness" by one Richard Buck, or Bucke. Yes, even ol' Mark Twain tackled religion in some of his short stories, mostly to make fun of it. He did write one entitled "The Mysterious Stranger" which was a serious and bizarre piece of writing that seems totally out of character for someone who wrote about Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. It was basically a book about the Matrix well over a century  before anyone had ever heard about the Matrix. Of course Mr. Clemens also enjoyed a nice glass of bourbon and a good cigar which might explain "The Mysterious Stranger."

I like your quote from you.

[viking8x6]

On 4/8/2024 at 4:09 PM, norefusal said:

i do however live a very white life in a very white country that is very segregated. 

unfortunately, i'm also attracted to men of color (and often, them to me).

On 4/9/2024 at 8:59 PM, topblkmale said:

Was this a typo and you perhaps meant very white county that is very segregated in the US?

3 hours ago, norefusal said:

lol if you want to believe the USA is one big melting-pot love-fest where the average person's dinner party looks like a Beneton ad, knock yourself out. but statistics don't lie.

@norefusal - I believe @topblkmale actually was trying to clarify whether your first post (quoted above) was referring to a COUNTY (in a US state) as rather than a COUNTRY (elsewhere in the world), the latter having been the way I also first read it. It was not a question about the segregation (which is a very real thing for much of the US, especially the large part of it more than 100 miles from the coast).

[norefusal]

👍

[harrysmith27]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:53 PM, norefusal said:

 

👎

[rawfuckingonly]

 삶이 있는 한 희망은 있다. ... As long as there is life, there is hope.

 

Ohh wait, that's actually Korean 🇰🇷. Not Koran.

Nevermind.

[nanana]

I  read it along with the Bible, the one repeated theme that resonated with me was “thou shalt not make partners with god” though I liked The idea that the zealous god of the Koran might bring himself to whimsically forgive sinners by his own discretion. (Apologies to all Muslims who think I may be distorting the widdom, it is not intentional but just very bad memory.). My takeaway from that was that anyone on earth trying to act on gods behalf may be misguided. I know It’s a common practice to evaluate groups of people, and I think is a reasonable practice. However, the bigger the group being evaluated, the more diversity of extremes will be found. In fact, it seems like a fundamental axiom of any religions that if they are to survive they must embrace enough contradiction to appeal to all personalities who are willing to pass the religious memes on to the next generation. 
On a random note, when I went to visit my out gay friend in Pakistan and his (fully accepting) family, the driver and I had discussion about Islam and Christianity. He was very disturbed by the whole concept of the Trinity but very excited when I told him about the Unitarians. For me it matters less whether you agree with me or not but whether you are able to coexist with me without violence and let god or the great void be my judge. 

[brnbk]

On 4/17/2024 at 10:37 AM, Poz50something said:

the book is all well and good, it's the practisers that leave plenty to be desired. But the Koran is definitely against same sex relationships of any kind, period. 

Sayyidna Abu Hurairah ؓ عنہ reports that the Holy Prophet ﷺ said: "Four types of people are, when they begin their day, under the wrath of Allah and when they reach their evenings they are under the rage of Allah." I asked: "Who are they, 0 Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Men who imitate women and women who imitate men and he who goes unto animals and he who goes unto men".

و عن انم عباس ؓ قال : قال رسول اللہ ﷺ ـ من وجدتموہ یعمل عمل قوم لوط فاقتلوا الفاعل و المفعول ب [think before following links] [think before following links] [think before following links] https://quran.com/en/4:16/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran

Even in 'moderate' countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia, there are long prison sentences for the practice of sodomy. No doubt, they're hold-overs from the colonial era, but funny, when the coloniser countries have become some of the more advanced in LGBTQ rights, it's the colonised that have incredible regressive anti-LGBTQ laws. 

While it is true that the Quoran, like most Holy Books including Toarh of the Jews, Bible of the Christians and Vedic traditions of the Hindus condemns homosexuality, the fact is these religions evolve as well. For eg, the restrictive tribal religion of the Judaic God who only cared about Isrealities, gave rise to a much more tolerant and Universal god of the Christians. The sacrifice loving Vedic religion of which was more tribal and fierce gave rise to a more philosophical and Vegetarian modern Hinduism. The point I am making is all religions evolve.

I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Islam and the countries that it has spread to have been anti-LGBTQ. During the Islamic rule over most of west and south Asia, gay culture flourished. In India; the local language in India referred to homosexuality as a hobby of the Muslim rulers( Mughals) and Transexual people particularly thrived. Poems from Persian and part of Iraq during the Mughal times, do openly talk of men loving boys. Even today, crimes against transexual hatred, the way it occurs in the West, is fairly unknown in the Muslim world and often the state will recommend and pay for transexual surgery, for eg in Iran. However, the same freedom is not given to gay people, and the status of gay people has worsened since colonial times when a lot of colonized countries adopted the Anglo-Saxon disdain for homosexuality and incorporated Anglican legal mores into their own code of laws. 

 

I unfortunately am not a scholar of Islam and my understanding of it is limited. However, I do know there is a distinction between the Sayings of the prophet vs the Main Book which is the canonical book, and that the anti-gay passages are in the Sayings rather than the canonical book. 

Interestingly, u mention Islam and Malaysia, two countries that had been Indian for centuries, the abandoned Hindu temples and Buddhist monasteries along with various other factors proving it; which converted to Islam roughly during colonial times. The British not only went and conquered countries, they often changed the religion of the colonies so as to wipe off the proof and influence of the previous colonial power under the rubrics of a war against paganism/heathen/idol worshiping religion, even though the real reason was politics and loot. The anti-gay laws that we now see in Malaysia and Indonesia are partly a result of that as most of Malaysian and Indonesian Islam tends to be like Indian Islam: more moderate. Also, both Malay and Indonesian Islam have debates within their country over other related issues, as well, such as the place of their national heritage including Arabic clothes vs their own national clothes and culture, within Islam. 

Thus the debate within Islam is not just about LGBTQ rights, but also about other important issues such as national culture, practices, etc, and proves that sometimes there are tough questions to be answered within Islam and it is capable of having that debate. 

 

Edited October 28 by brnbk

[Norcalfukkr]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:09 AM, ktopper said:

Yes, my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Perhaps I should refrain from posting after the second glass of Jameson.

Now that’s my kind of man, I love Jameson, too.  Best form of religion and politics in my opinion. 

[hntnhole]

Interesting topic. 

Most of us have wound up with some ancillary belief-system, other than the traditional Christian dogma.  

I tend more to Deism, which I find no where near as intellectually insulting as the various liturgical (or even non-) organizations.  But it doesn't need any particular name, as far as I see it, since it's as much my own construction as it is others.  I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned it in this thread. 

Still, always interesting to read what other's have come to believe on the issue.  

[Poz50something]

8 hours ago, brnbk said:

 Interestingly, u mention Islam and Malaysia, two countries that had been Indian for centuries, the abandoned Hindu temples and Buddhist monasteries along with various other factors proving it; which converted to Islam roughly during colonial times.

 

Being really pedantic here, but Malaysia, and Indonesia  adopted Islam way before the colonial era. The people were definitely Hindu and Buddhist before the adoption of Islam. This is evidenced by 1. Candi Prambanan, ('candi' originally coming from the word 'chaitya') which is the temple dedicated to Brahma, one of the rare temples dedicated to this deity.  2. Candi Mendut,  a Mahayana temple dedicated to Vairocana, Avalokitesvara, and Vajrapani. 3. Candi Plaosan, Borobudur, and  the thousands of Hindu temples in Bali. There are hundreds of loanwords from Sanskrit. But, the Islamisation of Malaysia and Indonesia occurred with Arab, Persian, and Gujarati and Tamil Muslim traders coming to the area, from the 900s onwards. The Malacca Sultanate  from 1400 onwards, and the various Sultanates really sped up the adoption of Islam way before the Portuguese and Dutch came to trade in the Spice Islands. Also, Bali is majority Hindu, and has been so since the 1400s as well. All in all, to say that Islam has been entrenched here for quite a long while. The modern interpretation of Islam is what I was talking about with the two countries becoming increasingly conservative, and anti LGBTQ, 

[PozBearWI]

And some of us put all religion in the camp of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny...  Stuff we made up in our attempts over time to make sense of the world around us.  Typically not observable and not measurable.  In essence magical thinking. 

Fantasy can of course be great fun.  And stories are part of being a human.  It thus makes sense that all of these stories are some peoples view.  

One problem amongst our species is that some seem to need everyone else to believe their story for them to believe it themselves; and thus they get their undies in a bunch when others don't toe their line...

[hntnhole]

4 hours ago, PozBearWI said:

One problem amongst our species is that some seem to need everyone else to believe their story for them to believe it themselves; and thus they get their undies in a bunch when others don't toe their line...

Isn't it odd that so many folks seem to need to foist their personal belief system on others?  As though there's some shred of validation available if they can convince others to see the same light.  It's as though their own beliefs aren't enough to sustain them - they have to "conquer" in the name of their particular sect.  

What's so wrong about applying our sexual stance (i.e., we do what we must do to be whole, complete men, and apologize to no one) to the rest of our lives?  

[PozBearWI]

I am a happy HIV poz senior citizen.  No regrets.  To be clear though, this is not a recommendation for others aside from "find a way to love yourself".  

[viking8x6]

It doesn't pay too well to overthink this thread, seeing as it started out as an anti-Islam troll post.

[brnbk]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:54 PM, Poz50something said:

Being really pedantic here, but Malaysia, and Indonesia  adopted Islam way before the colonial era. .................. But, the Islamisation of Malaysia and Indonesia occurred with Arab, Persian, and Gujarati and Tamil Muslim traders coming to the area, from the 900s onwards. The Malacca Sultanate  from 1400 onwards, and the various Sultanates really sped up the adoption of Islam way before the Portuguese and Dutch came to trade....

Apologies for the late reply; I ,unfortunately, did not see the responses.

You have a right to a view, and be pedantic, but I am going to disagree with your view. 

The oldest mosque in Indonesia is from the 15th century and Malaysia from the 17th century. These nations where colonies of India, before the Anglo Saxon empire started the policy of Indian removal and the Hindu/Indian populations where whipped out of these countries and the native Malaysians and Indonesia given a Muslim identity. While Arabs and Indian Muslims traders did exist in these countries from the 900 onwards, the locals had a tolerant attitude towards all religions and practiced Buddhism, Hinduism, paganism and the new Islamic religion equally and never really converted until the British ran their missionary anti pagan/Hindu campaigns and divided the world into idol worshippers and worshippers of the True God-monotheistic, non idolatrous etc.  

This is very evidenced from the way in which these countries practice their true religion, and exist. For eg, when the Asian Finance crisis hit East Asia in 1997, the Indonesians immediately fell back to their "ancient gods" and issued a currency note with the  elephant headed Hindu god Ganesh's photography to try to appease their ancestral pagan gods. The half elephant, half human god is considered as the god who removes obstacles and the Indonesians had no qualms in praying to their ancestral gods to pull their country out of a crisis. The bank of Indonesia issued a currency note with the pictue of the hindu god ganesha in 1998  the Indonesia leader Ki Hajar Dewantara on the highest currency note of 2000 Indonesian dollars.  

[think before following links] https://www.boomlive.in/fact-check/economy/indonesia-20000-note-with-ganesh-ganpati-muslim-country-rbi-19711

[think before following links] https://en.numista.com/catalogue/note205416.html

 

The Indonesians did not think that their Islamic Arabic brothers or the Islamic God was going to come to their rescue but the Indian/Asian pagan gods.  Doesn't sound or look very Islamic to me!