Trump wins bigly, world to end tomorrow...

[ktopper]

5 minutes ago, NEDenver said:

That makes no sense.  You’re arguing for fascist corporatism and all of the harm.  And all you have is black lady bad?

And all you have is calling me a racist. Really?

[PozBearWI]

3 hours ago, pozlvr27 said:

What ever happened to George Clooney ? That political genius suddenly has nothing to say. 

George Clooney is not a "political genius".  Activist?  Sure.  Why do you expect him to say anything?

[BootmanLA]

On 11/11/2024 at 4:26 PM, ktopper said:

And you know those farmers were offering that wage exactly how? Were you there? Or did you get your facts by way of CNN?

I don't have the apparent disdain you have for CNN, but my job actually has had me in regular contact with a metric fuckton of journalists, from the AP to local papers to the New York Times and Washington Post. My employer assisted with research to a wide range of news organizations, and reporters *on the ground* in Alabama were reporting what the farmers themselves were saying. The numbers were corroborated by the reporter covering the story by contacting some regional temp workforce agencies.

On 11/11/2024 at 4:26 PM, ktopper said:

Those jobs are not all unskilled labor "requiring no education or training whatsoever." I don't know how many farming operations you have been around lately but they no longer use Grandpa's old "Popping Johnny," they are using equipment that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. You don't turn unskilled, untrained labor loose on those machines.

I'm well aware. I also know that the vast majority of those undocumented workers aren't the ones on those six-figure machines; and moreover, there's a lot of stuff that can't be harvested by those machines because it's too fragile. So two points: those machines are part of why there aren't as many good paying jobs in agriculture as there once were (because invest in the machines for the crops that CAN be harvested that way and you eliminate a lot of labor and potential WC claims and the like); and the remaining jobs - the really backbreaking manual ones for the more fragile crops - are things a typical American teenager or young adult simply will . not . do. 

On 11/11/2024 at 4:26 PM, ktopper said:

There are a lot of factors at work in the job market. Just opening the borders to ever increasing numbers of economic migrants is not a good long term solution.

And calling manual labor "demeaning" says more about you than it does them. A few generations back most people's ancestors made their living doing manual labor.

No one is saying "open the borders to ever increasing numbers of economic migrants". Putting words in my mouth and pretending I said them is a one-way ticket to me pointing out that making shit up is a pretty shit way to argue a point. As for demeaning: I happen to believe that all work is honorable. Many people probably think they believe that. But the attitude that some labor is beneath the dignity of the person observing it is well-established in America, right down to parents and teachers telling kids to study so they don't have to ask "Do you want fries with that?" for a living. I'm observing the attitude toward manual labor (broadly speaking) when I say that many Americans find it demeaning.

As for generational change: Of course each generation wants its subsequent ones to do better and the subsequent ones often hide their humble origins. Mary Trump, Hair Furor's mother, was a chambermaid when she arrived in this country, and by the time her oldest child was of age to marry, she turned down her nose at his bride because she was a flight attendant and not worthy of her exalted son's attention.

On 11/11/2024 at 4:26 PM, ktopper said:

That is the problem. I would call your attention to the fact that those jobs paid a living wage within my lifetime. And a cheeseburger at McDonalds was 29 cents.

Again, I'm well aware. But the greed among the investor/owner class gutted that, starting early under Reagan, and it's never recovered. And too many of those whose incomes did not keep pace with inflation over the last 45 years or so, thanks to a massive change in government policy to favor the rich, aligned themselves with those same rich rather than those who were even worse off than themselves. It's the old cartoon where the laborer has a cookie on a plate at the table, and the rich guy (factory owner, whomever) has 99 cookies on HIS plate, and he's warning the laborer that this other guy - the immigrant, the welfare recipient, the poor black guy, whoever - is trying to steal his cookie. Divide and conquer has worked for the rich for millennia.

[BootmanLA]

19 hours ago, ktopper said:

No! Increases in wages follow inflation. They are an adjustment in response to inflation.

But then I suspect you already knew that. 😉

No. They *can* be an adjustment in response to inflation, but they can also *surpass* inflation and they can *cause* inflation. In fact, one of the primary drivers of inflation in this last economic cycle was wage inflation caused by companies desperately trying to staff up following Covid layoffs and shutdowns. 

They're certainly not the only possible cause, of course. But they certainly can be a significant portion of the problem. 

[NEDenver]

3 hours ago, ktopper said:

And all you have is calling me a racist. Really?

You’re awfully sensitive.  Maybe it’s guilt.  Have you tried therapy?

[TaKinGDeePanal]

Trump: bringing back the 50s [think before following links] https://www.history.com/news/operation-wetback-eisenhower-1954-deportation

[ktopper]

 

BootmanLA said

I don't have the apparent disdain you have for CNN, but my job actually has had me in regular contact with a metric fuckton of journalists, from the AP to local papers to the New York Times and Washington Post.

Well, that does explain a lot.

...those machines are part of why there aren't as many good paying jobs in agriculture as there once were (because invest in the machines for the crops that CAN be harvested that way and you eliminate a lot of labor and potential WC claims and the like)...

King Ludd lives! All hail the General Ludd!

...and the remaining jobs - the really backbreaking manual ones for the more fragile crops - are things a typical American teenager or young adult simply will . not . do.

If you ever drive through rural flyover America and spend some time looking around and getting to know the people you might notice a dearth of "typical American teenagers and young adults." They now live in cities because for a couple of generations they haven't been able to survive there because they have been displaced by "undocumented workers" and the jobs no longer pay enough to support them. Second and third generation people whose ancestors Immigrated here are in the same boat. They also left for the cities (and they also voted heavily for that bad ol' Orange Man). My point is that they are not there where these jobs are, and why should they pack up and head back to the land only to be paid shit wages when they can make as much or more at the local fast food joint.

Saying they simply will not do these jobs is still unadulterated bullshit. If it was economically feasible they would. The problem is not them. It is due to Corporate greed (as you seem to understand) and governmental corruption that allows it to happen.

No one is saying "open the borders to ever increasing numbers of economic migrants". Putting words in my mouth and pretending I said them is a one-way ticket to me pointing out that making shit up is a pretty shit way to argue a point.

 

I did not say you said anything like that, I said it was not a good long term solution. Claiming I accused you of saying something that I did not accuse you of is a downright horseshit way to argue a point.

As for demeaning: I happen to believe that all work is honorable.

Then why did you call it demeaning?

As for generational change: Of course each generation wants its subsequent ones to do better and the subsequent ones often hide their humble origins. Mary Trump, Hair Furor's mother, was a chambermaid when she arrived in this country, and by the time her oldest child was of age to marry, she turned down her nose at his bride because she was a flight attendant and not worthy of her exalted son's attention.

She sounds like a good mother. Women, may Odinn bless their sometimes overly protective little hearts.

 

[ktopper]

9 hours ago, NEDenver said:

You’re awfully sensitive.  Maybe it’s guilt.  Have you tried therapy?

What's that term used by psychologists for folks who project their own behaviors and shortcomings onto others  in order to avoid dealing with their own deficiencies? Ah, that's it, PROJECTION!

[NEDenver]

5 hours ago, ktopper said:

What's that term used by psychologists for folks who project their own behaviors and shortcomings onto others  in order to avoid dealing with their own deficiencies? Ah, that's it, PROJECTION!

Yes, you’re projecting.  A therapist could help you.  A media literacy course could help you, also.  

[hntnhole]

😀

[ktopper]

8 hours ago, NEDenver said:

Yes, you’re projecting.  A therapist could help you.  A media literacy course could help you, also.  

And you are a snowflake with a serious case of TDS. They haven't yet found a cure for that.

[ktopper]

BootmanLA said

I don't have the apparent disdain you have for CNN, but my job actually has had me in regular contact with a metric fuckton of journalists, from the AP to local papers to the New York Times and Washington Post. My employer assisted with research to a wide range of news organizations, and reporters *on the ground* in Alabama were reporting what the farmers themselves were saying. The numbers were corroborated by the reporter covering the story by contacting some regional temp workforce agencies

Tim Pool told me that the legacy media is drastically cutting their budgets due to declining viewership and readership and are having to lay off staff. Even some of their superstar propagandists are "resigning" such as Chris Wallace and Don the Lemon. Greg Foreman of "Black Conservative Perspective" said the same thing, as did Dr. Steve Turley. I hope your "journalist" friends will be alright. They can always get jobs in agriculture picking tomatoes and other such low skilled labor. I heard it is paying up to 20 bucks an hour. It is hard, backbreaking work and may be considered demeaning by some but others find a lot of job satisfaction in those trades. Just imagine being able to tell your family and friends "I picked 48 crates of 'maters today. That's 2 more than yesterday. Bossman says if I can get up to 75 per day he will give me a dollar an hour raise." 🤩

[ellentonboy]

I haven't watched local, network or cable news since the election.

Netflix, and HBO have my time now,,,,,,,,I'm waiting for the first shoe to drop.

I was horrified when I picked up my iPhone to see that Trump was going to pick Matt Gaetz as attorney general.  Wasn't the House Ethics Committee investigating him for sexual misconduct?  So now we have a sexual predator and an ALLEGED pedophile at top levels of our government.

Great, just great.....