An explanation of "stupidity."

[tallslenderguy]

i think this is an excellent explanation, and i think she managed to pull it off in a non partisan way despite her concerns to the contrary. 

 

[BBBxCumDumpster]

  On 3/13/2025 at 3:06 PM, tallslenderguy said:

i think this is an excellent explanation, and i think she managed to pull it off in a non partisan way despite her concerns to the contrary. 

 

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This was amazing.  Excellent advice on recognizing and dealing with stupidity and so timely 

[nanana]

I think it’s more likely to encourage people that “the other side” is stupid. Face it, how many of you who saw it secretly congratulated yourselves that you weren’t the stupid ones?

[tallslenderguy]

  On 3/14/2025 at 1:25 AM, nanana said:

I think it’s more likely to encourage people that “the other side” is stupid. Face it, how many of you who saw it secretly congratulated yourselves that you weren’t the stupid ones?

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Projecting? 😉  

[nanana]

Not at all. I have been a communist, a socialist, a democrat, a libertarian and a republican so I’m pretty good at seeing pros and cons, insights and blind spots. I question myself all the time. I’m both larger than life and smaller than life but rarely life size. I dig Deep down my research and am still wrong very frequently. But it gets boring when one is of the few questioning themselves among the great safe majority who just pile on. It is not a vulnerable friendly atmosphere. Stifles true inquiry, self-questioning, and beyond-insight. 

[nanana]

My dick goes totally limp for beta herds of any partisanship.  

Edited Friday at 02:16 AM by nanana
To broaden the disdain

[tallslenderguy]

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:05 AM, nanana said:

Not at all. I have been a communist, a socialist, a democrat, a libertarian and a republican so I’m pretty good at seeing pros and cons, insights and blind spots. I question myself all the time. I’m both larger than life and smaller than life but rarely life size. I dig Deep down my research and am still wrong very frequently. But it gets boring when one is of the few questioning themselves among the great safe majority who just pile on. It is not a vulnerable friendly atmosphere. Stifles true inquiry, self-questioning, and beyond-insight. 

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While you assess yourself as self critical,  you present as self congratulatory for being "one of the few questioning themselves" while you separate your self from, and judge as less than, those you deem "the great safe majority."  i wonder if you watched and listened the whole video (or any of it) or just are just using it as a presumptuous jumping off place to assert your superiority, telling others to "face it," as though you can see into them and accurately assume their response.  

Maybe thinking of, and presenting yourself as one of the few, is self isolating and makes you come off as "boring." Self assertions that you are "pretty good at seeing pros and cons," is not evidence of you being "pretty good at seeing pros and cons."  Assertions of "dig[ing] Deep down [in]... research," is again, a self assessment. It may be you are using a teaspoon to dig with, or a massive mechanical backhoe, but in the absence of published results, you are your only peer review.  

There is a saying, "one who would have friends must prove their self friendly."  You do not come off as "vulnerable" or "friendly" to me. Perhaps you feel alone because others see you similarly?  If you are one of the 'few' you claim to be, wouldn't you be in constant good company with your self and have a perpetual hard on? 

[nanana]

great feedback tallslenderguy.  it was a pompous answer in retrospect.  I    did look at the whole video, and I    did EXACTLY what turned me off about the video.  Instead of looking at what I  could change about myself, I  focused my critique on others.  I    can definitely be a pompous ass.  It is true that I  was super lonely during the COVID years and have never really recovered my sense of connection from those years.  I    DO have friends who like me 🙂 but I  will own your point about being "vulnerable" or "friendly" and self-reflect.   

One of the hopefully-more-sympathetic reasons I    reacted the way I  did is because the video focuses on judging people (including oneself) because they are incorrect about facts and interpretations.  I    think if anything we need LESS judging rather than more.  I  am concerned in this "fact-checky" world that the conversation becomes super impoverished around just facts rather than the souls the facts pass through. It would be nice to see a return to a greater tolerance for different interpretations of shared and unshared truths.  HOWEVER, to your point tallslenderguy, I have hardly been a great model for that.  I  am not great at de-escalation, a skill I  value, so should work more on.  

I    DO think it will be difficult in this environment to get back to tolerance when partisanship presents existential (even if not real) threat to diverse populations and their ways of thinking.  

I  appreciate your point about how I    would ever make a self-assessment "research-quality" but will stand by the assessment, though obviously with some serious lacks in that space.  Thanks for taking the time to respond, you gave me something to think about and reminded me of some of my core values I     haven't been manifesting.  

[tallslenderguy]

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:56 PM, nanana said:

great feedback tallslenderguy.  it was a pompous answer in retrospect.  I    did look at the whole video, and I    did EXACTLY what turned me off about the video.  Instead of looking at what I  could change about myself, I  focused my critique on others.  I    can definitely be a pompous ass.  It is true that I  was super lonely during the COVID years and have never really recovered my sense of connection from those years.  I    DO have friends who like me 🙂 but I  will own your point about being "vulnerable" or "friendly" and self-reflect.   

One of the hopefully-more-sympathetic reasons I    reacted the way I  did is because the video focuses on judging people (including oneself) because they are incorrect about facts and interpretations.  I    think if anything we need LESS judging rather than more.  I  am concerned in this "fact-checky" world that the conversation becomes super impoverished around just facts rather than the souls the facts pass through. It would be nice to see a return to a greater tolerance for different interpretations of shared and unshared truths.  HOWEVER, to your point tallslenderguy, I have hardly been a great model for that.  I  am not great at de-escalation, a skill I  value, so should work more on.  

I    DO think it will be difficult in this environment to get back to tolerance when partisanship presents existential (even if not real) threat to diverse populations and their ways of thinking.  

I  appreciate your point about how I    would ever make a self-assessment "research-quality" but will stand by the assessment, though obviously with some serious lacks in that space.  Thanks for taking the time to respond, you gave me something to think about and reminded me of some of my core values I     haven't been manifesting.  

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In keeping with the site (and situation?) i confess your response gave me a hard on... have fun considering that one coming from a guy who generally feels/seems wired 'total bottom.' Really my version of a "hard on" is being attracted to a guy in a way where i'd like to be impregnated by him and thereby connected/bonded to him... 

i now feel engaged and accessed by you vs shunned, locked out, judged. You received what i wrote so beautifully, and exercised grace towards my flaws and ragged edges.  i love the written word, but i also  realize that much of our human communication relies on other senses like tone, visuals. The lack of those can become pitfalls when it comes to written exchange. It's so easy to put our own voice, tone on something written instead of being "LESS judging."  i try and want to remember that in any given moment, i have, we all have, the choice of being an ass or an angel, or an infinite combination and variations of those mixed.  i believe  things like "pompous" are not a permanent state for me or anyone else, but a momentary choice, and maybe more often than not, a reflexive vs reflective expression? 

i don't doubt that you have friends who like you, my guess is they have experience this 'side' of you.

Your explanation of "one of [your]... reasons" makes sense to me, and i find myself taking your idea and applying it to the video. I.e., maybe disect it more thoroughly and try to parse out the 'good' and 'bad?'  For instance, i think she did a stellar job being non partisan. i found myself undecided after watching it whether she voted Republican or Democrat. And in that respect, i found my self smiling at your question of where the listener lands (i.e., identifying as of smart and not one of 'them' stupid people).  i felt like her inclusion of self (should probably watch it again) managed to make her argument for critical thinking universal vs partisan. But then, i tend towards hope and optimism, so it could be my own voice-over i heard. 

i agree that we live in a highly charged environment right now, so ditto "difficult."  

One of the things i love about the pure scientific approach is the acknowledgment that there is no such thing. That "this is what we (think) we know right now, but (always and forever) further studies are needed."  To me, the joy and benefit of honest debate is the tacit understanding that either or both can be wrong or right or a combination. We are finite living in an infinite universe (it seems given current perspective?) It's an open eye and ear approach, meaning we are still looking and listening vs trying to force an absolutist attitude, and incumbent ideology, on our self or anyone else. 

i work in healthcare, so i'm faced with the wonders and flaws of science on a routine basis. i often express to patients that medicine is often killing an ant with an elephant gun. i love the Star Trek character Dr McCoy who is often declaring medical practices from our generation as "barbaric."  A good example is sepsis. We know what it looks like, and it's a deadly condition. When someone presents with the usual suspect symptoms, our first response is to take blood (for culturing), then to give fluids, and then we blitz the person with broad spectrum antibiotics.  We are learning that those antibiotics also kill of scads of beneficial bacteria in our gut that we live in symbiosis with. But sepsis is deadly. If we don't use this shotgun, the person dies. Two days later, the cultures may help us refine our antibiotic approach, but it's not ever a specific bullet to the head of just one offender, it's just less broad spectrum.  

So the notion of "do no harm" is a nice dream and goal, but the truth is, we know and see in part. i think this is true about life in general. i think we all, ultimately, have to stand by our self assessment in order to qualify as a functioning individual. As i see it, that is part of what gives you value for the rest of us... and vice versa. 

 

[nanana]

this deserves a much longer response, but however I    took the video, I     publicly celebrate your INTENTION of finding common ground! and l love your inseminating the response with integrated sexual emotional and brain responses!  more when I     can you justice!

[BootmanLA]

  On 3/14/2025 at 12:41 PM, tallslenderguy said:

Self assertions that you are "pretty good at seeing pros and cons," is not evidence of you being "pretty good at seeing pros and cons."  Assertions of "dig[ing] Deep down [in]... research," is again, a self assessment. It may be you are using a teaspoon to dig with, or a massive mechanical backhoe, but in the absence of published results, you are your only peer review.  

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Dunning-Kruger anyone?

[hntnhole]

  On 3/14/2025 at 4:34 PM, tallslenderguy said:

managed to make her argument for critical thinking universal vs partisan

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I think that's what I took away as one of the most important points.  Where are kids going to get in touch with themselves, learn introspection skills, if not in some kind of educational venue?  It doesn't just grow on trees ... and it doesn't come naturally either.  It's something we need to strive for - accomplish. 

[BBArchangel]

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:09 AM, nanana said:

My dick goes totally limp for beta herds of any partisanship.  

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Sounds like an ED problem. And the assumption that you’re one of the alphas….

[nanana]

hi tallslenderguy, 

I loved your response to my response to your sharing of the video.  it resonates with me that writing, though powerful, can suck all of the tone and bodily nuance out of communication.  ascii may read as hostile but if you saw the smile and the engagement and other context, it may feel less shunning and more passionate - full out play.  I  keep coming back to the site and engaging, not because I think the measure of the exchange is that we should all agree, but that we are meant to run and bark and nip and steal each other's toys together for a brief period before the leash comes back on.  at my best i'm being playful, whereas at my worst i'm more likely to be fighting some imaginary life-or-death struggle to fulfill some desire for evidence of my existence.  this despite the fact that my mental model provides for as many differing truths as there are people, even more with all of the transient contradictory thoughts in one person's head.   tallslenderguy, I loved your analogy of how to treat sepsis and dr mccoy's take on our highly powerful "modern" medicine.  I  share dr mccoy's that people will look back on this era as being equally barbaric and maybe even more barbaric due to turning science into a faith. however, I  hope that they see all the well-meaning people in the profession trying to do good things with the power.  but regardless, this exchange has been a good reminder to me to get back to my higher self, which is fostering a playful space for all voices in the pack to be heard, and not judged but perhaps to lean into feedback.  

peace.  

Edited Saturday at 02:55 PM by nanana
grammar

[tallslenderguy]

  On 3/15/2025 at 2:54 PM, nanana said:

 I  share dr mccoy's that people will look back on this era as being equally barbaric and maybe even more barbaric due to turning science into a faith. 

peace.  

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nanana,

i so appreciated your response to my response, both here and back channel.  For me, it was near perfect because of the degree of openness and vulnerability you showed.  

It's likely just semantics, but i don't think the issue is one of "turning science into a faith," as it is turning science into a religion?  my guess is we likely agree, semantics aside? i grew up religiously conditioned and it took me half my life to process out of it. my belief was conditioned, but sincere.  i think what often passes as "faith" is really the opposite. In my case, i was conditioned by a fundamentalist mind set (which i have since found can be a part of any 'ism') that, though it uses the verbiage and makes claims of faith, instead equates belief with knowledge. And not just progressive type knowledge that science (ideally?) pursues, but an absolutist notion of knowledge that ends up making human perception into a 'God.'  

my process did not lead me to a place of disbelief but to a place where i could honestly and openly see and say: "i don't know__________."  Neither belief or disbelief, but a but a place of ongoing, open inquiry.  That has been the most freeing thing in my life.

When i was nearing the end of my process out of a fundamentalist approach to life, i found an email address for Noam Chomsky one day and sent him an email. He responded... the same day. We had several emails back and forth, and one of the comments he made was: "it's impossible to live without faith" and he went on to explain that he put's  "faith" in the scientific process, but i detected no religious zeal, rather a comfort level that allows for questioning and not "knowing."  His parents were both religious scholars, and he decided to go a different direction when he was only 13 years old. Which is really a tangent to why i bring this up.  He helped my in my process out of fundamentalism, not because of that comment, that was a place i had already come to on my own, but because of who and how he is/was.  i threw myself into religion at the age of 14 when i realized i am attracted to guys, and religious conditioning was the only 'answer' i knew. i sought out "God" always, and solely for many years (which in the end ended up freeing me from 'God' -another story).  At some points in my attempts to de-gay, i sought out the help of religious authorities, writing letters where i poured myself out, and never, not once, got a response.  

Fundamentalist christianity teaches that there is nothing "good" or "loving" apart from "God" (i.e., their idea of "God"), and yet none of these people displayed kindness or love or had answers that would help me conform to their/my conditioned notions of "God." On the other hand, this complete stranger who had every reason to dismiss me and not worth part of his busy schedule, instead was open and kind and vulnerable with me. It wasn't anything he said, but who and how he was that ended up exposing and obliterating the conditioned notion that only those who 'properly follow God' are capable of wonderful things like good and love.