Aren't Americans concerned by the loss of trust? (No visible reaction from the public?)

[nanana]

2 hours ago, hntnhole said:

He has, however, given voice to a certain subset of Americans that feel - for some unimaginable reason - they they are "deserving' when others are not.  They blame "immigrants", they lay the blame for their lack of achievement at all kinds of places that have zero to do with their life-choices.  They blame religious folks, irreligious folks, they blame any/everyone they can point at, with the assumption that it couldn't possibly be themselves. 

huntnhole, thanks for sharing your views.  without wishing to imply that there is ever an either/or, I   don't (completely) relate to what you wrote.  I think what you wrote resonates with a part of the truth, but for me the real reason the empire consensus is collapsing is because America really can't afford it anymore.  we are living on the most imaginary credit, and the lower classes of america have seen their purchasing power destroyed.  I    think it is somewhat mean-spirited to make our deplorables wrong for feeling the pain of our empire-collapse first.  we have had faulty accounting for years; our military industrial complex has paid the lowest possible bribes for civilian benefits to ensure that we overspend on MICIMATT, and our lower classes are totally burnt out on subsidizing this.  (not saying that our "deplorables" aren't subject to propaganda that is going to encourage them to advocate for stupid non-universal policies).  while "progressive" values are not bad, most "progressives" don't know anything about accounting.  our overseas beneficiaries have gotten complacent letting the US be the bad guy and overspend on its military while Europe eats its beautiful farm-to-table food.  

I am not ENTIRELY happy about the empire crumbling.  It looks as if America (the T Admin)  is ready to exploit other countries for mineral rights and other semi-abusive relationships.  It looks as if a lot of new rackets are being spun up (not yet completely understandable, but certainly visible in their emergence).  

does anyone here really think US money is best spent on killing people in the Middle East?

I think that both Biden and Trump agreed that it may have been a good idea for US industry to build plants overseas, but I  think they also would agree its a BAD idea to have shut down local industry.  

Maybe Europe will wake up and reclaim its power to protect itself, energize itself, figure out how to be friends with US, Russia, China, India, Iran, etc., and stop voting for parties that wish to make it a Eunuch.  

Maybe the US will remember how to be self-sufficient and celebrate other countries who can do the same.  

IMHO

Best.   

[nanana]

2 hours ago, TT2025 said:

TWO CONCEPTS OF LIBERTY, Isaiah Berlin

Thanks for the lead TT2025. Here’s one of many links to the essay to make it a bit easier to find:  [think before following links] http://fs2.american.edu/dfagel/www/Philosophers/Berlin/Berlin_twoconceptsofliberty.pdf

[nanana]

P.S. the first Paragraph or two are such delicious writing that I don’t even CARE if I agree OR disagree with the author, who has given me such a brain erection that I want His cum. 

[Westhamsmoker]

Trump has abdicated the US leading role in World politics, so be it but someone will fill the void. He is no Statesman and deals with every issue as if he were negotiating Real Estate. 

In Europe he is considered a joke but a dangerous one. By his Real Estate rhetoric about annexing Canada, taking Greenland etc he is no different from Putin and his desire to annex Ukraine and after that the rest of the  old USSR countries.

He has demonstrated that he is a afraid of Putin who sadly has made Trump look like an idiot and now holds the upper hand. Trump frankly does not care about who controls Ukraine all he is interested in is protecting and enlarging US commercial interests.

Why should he care? Its Europe let them look after themselves. But this is very short sighted as it allows Putin and his cronies to become more dominant force in Europe both militarily and commercially.  Watch then who will control Trumps precious minerals.

It is such a sad demise of the US in Global affairs. I hope that he does not complain when China becomes the most powerful country in the World.

[tallslenderguy]

6 hours ago, nanana said:

While you raise an important distinction, I  am concerned about this line of reasoning though because it posits that there are only TWO types of people who should gravitate into CAMPS instead of promiscuously shifting alliances depending upon the issue.  This quality of being righteous that you distinguish in "fundamentalists" is a quality I have found on both the right and the left.  There is another critical distinction in this space: I may be a "fundamentalist" about the way I live but not believe it is my role to impose my views and ways of being on others.  (My sister is somewhat like this, her heart is loving, her conversations are very comfortable, AND for her the only way is the way of Jesus.)  Similarly, I  have found that "open-mindedness" sometimes manifests as lazy-mindedness when it comes to getting any deep insights about the pain points of different tribes we are doomed (or blessed) to coexist with.  

I run into both open-minded and close-minded people  on both the right and the left and share your preference for open-mindedness, though I have come to have a respect for people who hold fast to principles, and I see that it gives them some strengths as well as some weaknesses.  This may be a major simplification, but I personally have a hard time understanding why sodomites and fundamentalists cannot coexist if they are capable of minimizing aggression and respecting each other's spaces.  In reality it is way too messy since most of us are in multiple, sometimes contradictory tribes.

 

 i feel we are on the same page in the same book on this?  That i only failed to clearly state my thoughts and perspective in what i wrote. 

Where i try to simplify my qualification for "fundamentalist/fundamentism" approach to anything, is the distinction i make between "belief" and "knowledge."  To me, belief has elements of faith, but also has a dose of self doubt.  Not talking wishy, washy non principled self doubt, but the openness and understanding that "we know and see in part."  

i actually endeavor to follow what i see as principles of love as a guiding beacon, or anchor, in my life.  Some would be surprised that i take that from the bible from 1 Corinthians 13 (aka in some circles as: "the love chapter").  Perhaps this makes me an example of someone who can take something sincerely and seriously from the bible in a non-fundamentalist way.  my read is, the author sets up the rationale for "love" prior to defining love (a bit).  It's something i was never taught in church, but a place i arrived at after years of trying to understand love and how to pull it off? The (or maybe better "a")  "rationale" for love is that "we see through a glass darkly.... we know and see in part."  i love the King James translation of that because "glass" in KJ's time was dark and distorted, wavy stuff. It was used both as a mirror and a window, so my read is:  when we look in a mirror and self reflect, we see and know our self in part. When we look at another , we know and see in part.  To me, it's the foundational understanding that "we know and see in part" that  maintains the humility of self doubt. 

For instance, to me, you are not being "fundamentalist" because you wrote this exhibiting the ability to question your self and the humility to be open about it. 

To me, a person can believe something whole heartedly and adhere to that belief for life, and not be fundamentalist... for me to say otherwise, i think, would be me indulging in 'fundamentalist approach." 

It's not confidence or sincerity of belief that i think is divisive, but the absolutist attitude that "I am right and you are wrong" vs I believe I am right and this is why I believe it, and I believe you are wrong and this why I believe that, but I also understand that i know and see in part, and could be wrong, but this is what i believe right now and why. 

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, Westhamsmoker said:

He is no Statesman and deals with every issue as if he were negotiating Real Estate. 

Before becoming a critical care nurse, i built and ran a pretty successful business that involved a great deal of marketing. On the side, i restored and flipped houses.  While Trump may be in the real estate business, to me he is comparable to those who would market the Brooklyn bridge. I.e., He repeatedly makes outrageous claims and doesn't deliver.  

[TT2025]

15 hours ago, nanana said:

P.S. the first Paragraph or two are such delicious writing that I don’t even CARE if I agree OR disagree with the author, who has given me such a brain erection that I want His cum. 

Yep, oratory capabilities of some folks are just out of this world.

However I must apologize for saying it is short.. It is relatively to how it is packed with information and argument. But I strongly encourage everyone to give it a try. 😊

[BBBxCumDumpster]

On 4/18/2025 at 8:56 PM, tallslenderguy said:

"Map and List of Nationwide Anti-Trump Protests on April 19"

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.newsweek.com/anti-trump-protests-us-map-list-2061036

 

It seems to me that the world is (very roughly) divided into two camps, often reflected in their leaders, but not always.  A lot of individuals feel (and are) pretty powerless against their governments, but it does not mean they agree with them. i'm writing this from Mexico... i wanted to spend my vacation money here. i voted against trump in every way i could. 

What i have been wondering about it what is behind those who voted for trump?  i don't solely blame stupidity or evil. i think there are stupid and evil people on both sides of the coin.  i've never fully trusted my government, no matter who is in power. What sort of works is a system of checks and balances that makes it difficult for one side to have complete control.

 i think a lot of people voted for trump emotionally, not rationally. His core voter base is an arm of religion that bases decisions on trust.  Many of these people are waiting for the return of a god, and have been waiting for 2000 years.  These people have centuries of practice rejecting what is in front of them in favor of their trust in belief.  To me, i see a similar energy and attitude in those who continue to support trump with emotional trust. They watch their 401K's dwindle, and they doubt their self and trust trump. Trump said he'd end the war in Ukraine in one day.... yet they still trust him. The list goes on and on, but it doesn't matter. There is a certain type of person (on both sides of the spectrum) who makes decisions based on emotional trust... and there seem to be a lot of people in power right now who are exploiting that trust.

i don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with trust, but i do think it can be exploited and violated and i think many who depend to much on trust end up being exploited. i am still hoping that our system is enough to put a halt and eventually reverse some of what is going on. Mostly i want to see president who is restricted by boundaries, right or wrong, i do not think one person should ever have the kind of power trump is taking... i do not trust anyone with that kind of power.

 

This analysis  is a good start, but ir needs to factor in the huge percentaga of illiterate adults in this country and their inability and reluctance to think critically. Also, many people don't have access to objective news source.  A huge population gets its news from one source,  social media, or Fox news.  If you depend on Truth Social and Fox, then you would support Trump sti¡l because you'd be behind on important information.  And even if some did receive updates, thet wouldn't be able to draw a rational conclusion from it.

Also, let's be real. I've seen the vacant  glazed over look in their eyes.  Some supporters are under the control of a cult leader. With matching "talking points" blaring from Fox "NEWS" and its talking heads, those who won't or can't think for themselves are easy prey.  Trump, who is intellectually lazy as well, has seized upon this.  He does a little dance and spits out a few sound bites,  and many are willing to accept lies and ad hominem attacks as answers for tough questions. And they somehow believe that Trump is destroying and fleeting this country for their benefit. He is using our money for his businesses and golf trips, and his campaign for revenge on those who simply did their jobs by prosecuting him when he clearly broke the law.  If Trump occupies the brains of his cult followers, then they see nothing wrong with him dictating curriculum for colleges or any of the other misguided missteps of this regime. Or maybe they just don't know. 

[TT2025]

33 minutes ago, BBBxCumDumpster said:

This analysis  is a good start, but ir needs to factor in the huge percentaga of illiterate adults in this country and their inability and reluctance to think critically. Also, many people don't have access to objective news source.  A huge population gets its news from one source,  social media, or Fox news.  If you depend on Truth Social and Fox, then you would support Trump sti¡l because you'd be behind on important information.  And even if some did receive updates, thet wouldn't be able to draw a rational conclusion from it.

Also, let's be real. I've seen the vacant  glazed over look in their eyes.  Some supporters are under the control of a cult leader. With matching "talking points" blaring from Fox "NEWS" and its talking heads, those who won't or can't think for themselves are easy prey.  Trump, who is intellectually lazy as well, has seized upon this.  He does a little dance and spits out a few sound bites,  and many are willing to accept lies and ad hominem attacks as answers for tough questions. And they somehow believe that Trump is destroying and fleeting this country for their benefit. He is using our money for his businesses and golf trips, and his campaign for revenge on those who simply did their jobs by prosecuting him when he clearly broke the law.  If Trump occupies the brains of his cult followers, then they see nothing wrong with him dictating curriculum for colleges or any of the other misguided missteps of this regime. Or maybe they just don't know. 

You, my friend, should give some people more credit. Sure not all the supporters of Donald are dumb sheep...

The problem as I see it is lack of meaningful public discourse - political opposition used to be good for that some years back (least in my country). If there are people who are showed propaganda in the face constantly, they might stop thinking critically and someone must remind them that.

Here in EU we have this 'Green Deal' thing - lot of dogmatic supporters and dogmatic opponents, well I'm none of them, so I tried to discuss with the opponent of this. Using this kind of reasoning: 'It sure has some good stuff in it and must be implemented (if at all) with a great consideration. By the way you installed heatpump a decade ago without anyone telling you to do so.' He was, yea, right then spit out some made up stuff circulating the news and internet. So I said: 'You must see, that these things are not feasible if not paid by the government or even ever.' And he was: 'Yea, thought it might be exaggeration.'

So you can't just rule vast majority out as lunatics... You are risking their future actions to be fuelled out of spite towards you. - Does Brexit ring any bells? 😉

Edited 14 hours ago by TT2025

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, BBBxCumDumpster said:

This analysis  is a good start, but ir needs to factor in the huge percentaga of illiterate adults in this country and their inability and reluctance to think critically. Also, many people don't have access to objective news source.  A huge population gets its news from one source,  social media, or Fox news.  If you depend on Truth Social and Fox, then you would support Trump sti¡l because you'd be behind on important information.  And even if some did receive updates, thet wouldn't be able to draw a rational conclusion from it.

Also, let's be real. I've seen the vacant  glazed over look in their eyes.  Some supporters are under the control of a cult leader. With matching "talking points" blaring from Fox "NEWS" and its talking heads, those who won't or can't think for themselves are easy prey.  Trump, who is intellectually lazy as well, has seized upon this.  He does a little dance and spits out a few sound bites,  and many are willing to accept lies and ad hominem attacks as answers for tough questions. And they somehow believe that Trump is destroying and fleeting this country for their benefit. He is using our money for his businesses and golf trips, and his campaign for revenge on those who simply did their jobs by prosecuting him when he clearly broke the law.  If Trump occupies the brains of his cult followers, then they see nothing wrong with him dictating curriculum for colleges or any of the other misguided missteps of this regime. Or maybe they just don't know. 

i think you add some good points to the mix...

but also

i think even intelligent people are vulnerable to emotional manipulation, and both sides seem more than happy to engage in manipulation.  Either way we slice it, voting involves a degree of trust.  If i am being honest, i have to admit i do not understand the complexities of international trade. Meanwhile, i do not have the trust that Trump understands or has our best interest at heart.  His approach seems vindictive vs well thought out with understanding. He just seems a bully to me, an approach he takes to all of his relationships. "America first" to me is just an extension of trumps me first attitude. 

i've always been health conscious, read stuff, tried to be informed. Then, 13 years ago, i went back to school and got a BSN.  i did not realize what i didn't know until i became more educated. It was an awakening. Now as a critical care nurse, i continuously encounter people who push back against doctors, nurses, pharmacists, physical therapists, ________, because of something they read on the internet or saw on youtube. Many of these are intelligent, educated people, but they do not have a scientific or medical education, so they do not realize how much knowledge and background it takes to reach a diagnosis. Even if the information is from a good source, it doesn't mean that the info is being applied correctly.  Again, trust factors in. 

i wish for leaders and politicians who can express their own flaws and weaknesses... because we all have them. i think the reason government should only make collective policy decisions is because no on person knows enough. That trump wants to be the final say in everything makes me cringe at the insecurity of an ego that has to always be right and in charge. No one has that capacity.

Edited 13 hours ago by tallslenderguy

[NYBBGUY58]

PLEASE NOTE: THESE OPINIONS ARE SOLELY MY OWN!

There certainly have been protests and the media has reported on the more egregious violations.

I think a lot of people are terribly confused about what can be done to respond. The opposition in the US has depended on tried and true tactics: protest marches, boycotts and letters/calls/emails to elected representatives. My personal take is that those tactics aren't terribly effective any longer. There's no real consequence for the powers that be when they're ignored. Part of that is the historic relationship of "progressive" movements with the Democratic Party. While I don't think the Democrats are in any way the same as the GOP/Republicans, in the end they largely have chosen to co-opt social motion to leaders that aren't willing to shake up the status quo of power arrangements. While there are things I didn't care for about Mr. Biden, he walked the walk in that he diversified the racial/gender makeup of his administration. I think it was best described by an article that came out years ago - 2008 or 2012 - in Vanity Fair. In the United States we are governed by the one percent FOR the one percent.

My own feelings are mixed; while the Democratic Party put an end to discrimination in the military, Sam Nunn (former Democratic senator for the state of Georgia ) was adamantly opposed to allowing gays in the military and blocked it at every turn and Bill Clinton put into place the disastrous "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Joe Biden forced the Obama administration to push for marriage equality, yet Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. Pardon me if I still feel at best skeptical of the Democratic Party as an institution, though apologies have been offered.  To put it bluntly, we in the US don't have a reliable vehicle to push to save reforms let alone enact them.

I trace some of the anger to the absolute abandonment of any real programs to help with poverty, both in the inner cities and rural poverty (e.g., Appalachia and the so-called Rust Belt states). Add to that the real lack of consequences to the perpetrators of the sub-prime mortgage debacle of 2006/2007, and you have an enraged electorate that feels fucked over. With good reason.

At this point, I feel much more sympathy to the progressives in pre-WW2 Europe. I used to wonder why didn't they do more, where was the left when the right was busily exterminating Jews, Roma, Catholics, and Socialists? I have a better answer to that now: like them, the progressive movement in the US was too timid and did not do more than call for marches which lead to nothing changing. Incumbents were unwilling to risk their comfortable government jobs and pensions to create stronger safeguards. So here we are, basically fucked.

Personally, I am investing my time and money in immediate help for those affected and in creating electoral reform - things like open primaries - so that the current bipartisan policies of upholding the stranglehold of money and incumbency on our political process.

PLEASE NOTE: THESE OPINIONS ARE SOLELY MY OWN!

[NWUSHorny]

On 4/15/2025 at 3:54 PM, TT2025 said:

As the title implies, I'm not quite sure if US citizens are concerned how the perception of their country is changing.

In my view nearly half of the US populous is very concerned about this, but Trump has successfully bullied the enough of the media into not covering it that it is not readily apparent here in the US let alone abroad.

[pupHawaii]

17 minutes ago, NWUSHorny said:

In my view nearly half of the US populous is very concerned about this, but Trump has successfully bullied the enough of the media into not covering it that it is not readily apparent here in the US let alone abroad.

he has bullied not just the media - but his own party .. they are so afraid of him and have their heads so far up his ass that i'm surprised they can still breath and very few are standing up to him .. and his POS Vance is another one .. and then there's RFK Jr .. and Gabbard .. and the list goes on and on .. and now he's threatening to send US born citizens to prison in other countries .. 
 

Edited 7 hours ago by pupHawaii
spelling

[NWUSHorny]

32 minutes ago, pupHawaii said:

he has bullied not just the media - but his own party

Unfortunately he has bullied both parties, Democratic elected officials are afraid to speak out, and he has completely purged the Republican Party of anyone willing to say anything that disagrees with him. Fortunately the general public outcry is getting louder, hopefully it won't be too little too late.

[pupHawaii]

2 minutes ago, NWUSHorny said:

Unfortunately he has bullied both parties, Democratic elected officials are afraid to speak out, and he has completely purged the Republican Party of anyone willing to say anything that disagrees with him. Fortunately the general public outcry is getting louder, hopefully it won't be too little too late.

good point - both parties .. anytime he doesn't get his way he bullies .. and does his best to get retribution cuz at this point he knows no one will stand up to him .. 

Hoping the Supreme Court doesn't cave on him ..