A few words on stealthing

[wood]

For the most part I am a very liberal person, and I say people should be able to do what they please. That being said the one thing on this forum that has bothered me is the talk of stealthing, in particular where condoms are purposely broken.

I say this because I just had a friend who tested poz, most likely from someone who stealthed him. He is a guy who has ALWAYS played safe, never fucked or been fucked without a condom. He remembers an incident where the guy was really sneaky about what he did with the condom after they had sex, and a few months later when my friend got tested, he wouldnt return his calls. I know many people on here don't care about HIV status, and thats fine, but some guys do, and it should be respected. There are plenty of guys to fuck without having to go to lengths that IMO are wrong, and in many cases they are illegal too.

For my friend its been a really rough road. He has been suicidal a few times, and is now on heavy anti-depressants.

Keep it consensual in every way guys.

[pisces bearcub]

Although the idea of stealthing can be really hot, by trying to poz a guy using this method is not a good thing. Yes, it can be prosecuted, and if someone can trace it back to you, then you can be in a heap of trouble. Personally, if I was pozzed by a guy who had played 'safe', I would be hunting him down, and I doubt he would like the ending. Of course, the fact that I rarely have used rubbers, there is only a slight chance of it happening.

[breedbaltimore]

Sorry to hear about your friend. He is lucky to have a friend in you that cares about him. Keep being there for him and let him know it is not the end of his life, but something he can deal with.

[Bttm2go]

Stealthing may be hot in fantasy, it's not cool in real lfe. He should find out what his options are and persue them. This guy needs to feel some heat. He also needs to get to therapy or group help to get him through his fears and anger. Hopefully he'll get through this and have a long, happy life.

[rawTOP]

For the most part I am a very liberal person, and I say people should be able to do what they please. That being said the one thing on this forum that has bothered me is the talk of stealthing, in particular where condoms are purposely broken.

I say this because I just had a friend who tested poz, most likely from someone who stealthed him. He is a guy who has ALWAYS played safe, never fucked or been fucked without a condom. He remembers an incident where the guy was really sneaky about what he did with the condom after they had sex, and a few months later when my friend got tested, he wouldnt return his calls. I know many people on here don't care about HIV status, and thats fine, but some guys do, and it should be respected. There are plenty of guys to fuck without having to go to lengths that IMO are wrong, and in many cases they are illegal too.

For my friend its been a really rough road. He has been suicidal a few times, and is now on heavy anti-depressants.

You're assuming something that is just flat out false - that condoms = safe sex. Condoms are only effective 90 to 95% of the time. That means 10 to 20 fucks with a condom is the same as 1 raw fuck. Over time that adds up. Let's say your friend is 40 and has been sexually active for 20 years getting fucked by one guy a week during that time. So that's roughly 50 fucks a year times 20 years = 1000 fucks. That's the equivalent of 50 to 100 raw fucks.

So don't assume the worst - that someone stealthed him. It's not necessarily someone's fault. People can do everything right and still become poz. The worst thing your friend can do right now is try to find fault and blame someone. He needs to come to peace with his new status. There are many many poz guys who are living very healthy, productive lives. His "rough road" is all in his mind. It's within his power to change his situation by simply accepting his situation and moving on.

[bearbandit]

Just a couple of possibilities: maybe the top had a thing about drinking his own cum and was embarrassed about it. Perhaps your friend was a lousy lay, as far as that particular guy was concerned.

A lot of us here do care about HIV status and do the best we can to avoid passing HIV on as though it's all our responsibility. It isn't: responsibility is a two way street. For me raw sex means saying "no" to guys who've recently tested negative. If they want to get pozzed up, someone else can do it, I'm not going to.

Again, just an idea, but maybe the time you spent taking it out on us, you could have given to your friend, checking out support organisations and so on. Many of us here have walked the road your friend is walking now (one reason why I have no decision to pass this on). Please don't tell me to keep it consensual in every way: it's patronising as hell to be told I can't tell the difference between a real life and a fantasy.

You want the big laugh? I'm on this planet because my mom stealthed my dad in 1956 by taking a pin to his condom supply...

Edited April 23, 2013 by bearbandit
spelling

[dickluva]

Lots of great information here. I'm POZ at least since test in 1986, fearful & suicidal when i found out too. Angry? you betcha! Course i don't think HIV test was available to the man who pozzed me, we fucked for the first time like Memorial day weekend & he was dead by Christmas 1984. If I can forgive the man who murdered my partner in 2008, & then forgive the Judge who sentenced the murderer to one year; your friend can find way to thrive through adversity too. I don't choose to live in fear.

[GermanFucker]

The thing is: You never know. Maybe the guy was prone to depression anyway and testing HIV positive was just the trigger. The same thing with physical health: Most of my poz friends lead healthy, productive lives. And then there are others, for whom HIV lead to cancer, who can't feel their legs anymore or who lost 50lbs because anxiety on top of the medication fucked up their digestive system.

And while most men one way or the other make peace with their fate in life, it's nothing that can be forced. Telling someone who has problems with depression to "buck up" or that it is his obligation to move on just won't work. Because some brains work differently.

And that is why stealth pozzing (i.e. actually infecting) is categorically, unequivocally wrong: Because even if one oneself is fine with HIV, one never knows when it comes to others. Trying to rationalize it with statistics is just making excuses for something that is unexcusable.

And just to be sure: I'm not saying that happened here, I don't know any of you guys personally. But there are indeed psychopathic assholes out there. A friend of mine got pozzed against his will by someone who wasn't as mature and sane as bearbandit and transgeressed the thin red line between fantasy and reality. And even though my friend learned to accept being poz and is doing OK by now, that doesn't make the deed ok. Just because testicular cancer survivors do ok with prosthetic balls doesn't give me the right to go around castrating others.

[straycowboy]

I have never been concerned with other's hiv status, supposedly I don't have to be. I still get checked for everything, even the other STDs that I supposedly would be immune to. I for one, couldn't have intentionally infecting someone on my conscious, if my doctors were wrong. And although stealthing is fine in fantasy, I have a hard time coming to terms with the fact there are people who want to infect others, for whatever reason. Same with the bugchasing too. I'm still trying to understand this. Sorry about your friend Hollywood, and I hopeit turns out he wasn't stealthed, it won't fix things for him, but maybe with time, and friends like you, and maybe some counseling he'll be ok. The important thing now for him is to move on, and try to take care of himself, get whatever help he needs.

[wood]

You're assuming something that is just flat out false - that condoms = safe sex. Condoms are only effective 90 to 95% of the time. That means 10 to 20 fucks with a condom is the same as 1 raw fuck. Over time that adds up. Let's say your friend is 40 and has been sexually active for 20 years getting fucked by one guy a week during that time. So that's roughly 50 fucks a year times 20 years = 1000 fucks. That's the equivalent of 50 to 100 raw fucks.

So don't assume the worst - that someone stealthed him. It's not necessarily someone's fault. People can do everything right and still become poz. The worst thing your friend can do right now is try to find fault and blame someone. He needs to come to peace with his new status. There are many many poz guys who are living very healthy, productive lives. His "rough road" is all in his mind. It's within his power to change his situation by simply accepting his situation and moving on.

I completely understand what you are saying, and understand that condoms are not always 100% effective. That being said, its undeniable that consistant, and careful usage does have a large impact on HIV and other STD transmission.

I found out more about the story, and another reason he, and I believe that the guy purposely did it, is that another guy my friend knows hooked up with also and found that in the middle of sex he removed the condom. Additionally this guy still wont return any form of communication to my friend despite knowing some of the same people. My friend also tries to serosort, and while we all know this is not a very effective way of preventing HIV infection, the guy in this case did say he was neg, and recently tested...which we all know means NOTHING.

That being said, this is still just an anecdotal story. The main point is that stealthing isnt something that anyone should be doing IMO. Fantasy is one thing, but in practice its another.

[neg4poz]

blah blah blah blah - cry me a river...

if your friend was so concerned about HIV then why is sleeping around with guys he hasnt dated and doesnt know the character of ??? why is he engaging in premiscuious sex ? your friend is OBVIOUSLY a PIG - he lifts his legs for men he doesnt know because his pussy is hungry - and now you want us all to feel sorry for his plight because he got knocked up - sorry - no empathy here - none - you dont get to sing choir boy with a strangers dick up your ass... when you choose to have no strings sex with someone your not dating then you have to assume they are sex pigs as well - they are willing to fuck strangers - you dont know if they are headed to church the next morning or the back yard to bury the bones of their last victim - and now you want us all on this pig site to be sympathetic because hes a pig...

he's a fucking pig - the really sad thing in the story is that he hasnt owned it - or celebrated it...

Edited May 3, 2013 by neg4poz

[einathens]

@neg4poz: it serves no purpose to be scornful of those who are trying to play safe and get stealthed. barebacking is a choice that you demand to have respected; so is not barebacking, and you have to respect that choice as well.

lying about your status when asked by a potential sex partner is wrong.

so is wrecking the condom or sneaking it off when he's not looking.

[mspButtMunch]

I as a newly diagnosed POZ guy, with the 'desire to sire' would never stealth someone. I have always been and intend to be totally upfront about my status regardless of what the bottom wants to know about me. 4 words before I poke a hole ... 'Ya know I'm positive'...

[Guest ff-whole]

Sex in whatever way should be consensual. Rape is not accepted and in my opinion neither should stealthing...

In my opinion it should not be promoted and therefor not be accepted as post either.

But people like to fantasize to be raped [i would love to be gangbanged] so that should be OK because it is consensual.

If someone wants to be stealthed and pozzed, then that is OK too, but you can't go around and say you like to stealth poz someone that is not in on the fantasy.

[hungry_hole]

...a friend who tested poz, most likely from someone who stealthed him.

But apparently you're not sure. Then you go on to say that your friend

is a guy who has ALWAYS played safe, never fucked or been fucked without a condom.

How can you be sure your friend ALWAYS plays safe unless you were him. Because of all the health consequences of barebacking many men who even occasionally bareback won't be telling everyone what they did last Saturday night at the sauna. Barebacking is the way men will always prefer to have sex so it doesn't surprise me when I meet men who bareback. But it doesn't mean everyone has to know it.

I see nothing wrong with stealthing in sexual encounters that are casual, impersonal and anonymous. I'm not sure what the circumstances of your friend were. Was your friend stealth and pozed by his long term partner or by some trick? It's easy to avoid the annoyances and worries of STI's: be monogamous and have one exclusive sexual partner who you trust. Any kind of cheating is then plain wrong. But I cannot make a judgment on stealthing in general. I have to know the circumstances.