to take or not take meds

[Man4manplay]

My Doc want to start med treatment asap, he told me my VL is not high and that I could wait, but he likes to start early. My poz master has been poz for years, never taken meds and while he has a high vl it has remain stable for many many years. He is against meds and doesnt want me to start treatment, at least not so soon. Some of his other slaves are doing fine without meds, while 3 of them had serious complications in less that a year with really bad consequences, but he tells me only 3 guys of the many guys he has been master. Should I start treatment and quit my relationship with my master or should I stay a bit longer without meds as he orders?

[Guest GoodExercise]

Does your Master know that you are thinking about defying him? Does he know that you are seeking the advice of strangers to second-guess him? So you want to either do what the MD says, or do what the Master says -- or maybe do what some stranger on the Internet says? Your Master knows what you need. Listen to him, Fucker.

[tomhakim32]

Tom Hakim 32 here, take your meds if you have a good life, if not do not take any and die two to three years or sooner. Tom Hakim 32.

[Guest Vessel for Disease]

What are the terms of ownership with your Master? Do you have a written contract with him and if so, what does it say regarding issues of health? When I have served as a slave in the past --- I am currently unowned --- we have included terms on healthcare and decision-making around it.

Also, what are the terms of agreement or restrictions regarding external communication? Are you breaking those as well? :-)

[bearbandit]

So much of people's response to meds differs that it's impossible for one person to give an answer to your question: even HIV specialist doctors disagree. It could be that you need to start treatment soon: I know for myself that if I stop meds my CD4 plummets and there's only a modest rise in my viral load. Without meds, judging by past experience, I'd be dead within a year. I'd never be able, on past performance, to achieve a toxic VL before I was incapable of sex. On the other hand know an elite controller diagnosed in the eighties like I was, and he hasn't taken an HIV med in his life.

This is one instance where obeying your Master could cost you your life: are you ready for that? If you decide to go with meds and your Master throws you out, then, in my opinion, he's a fool: all you're trying to do is keep his slave in best condition. I wonder if the problem lies with your Master and he can't cope fully with being poz?

My personal opinion about treatment is hit the fucker hard and fast. The better health you're in when you start meds, the better your outlook. So, really, if you start meds you're doing it for your Master so that he gets more years of use out of you. The only person who can make this decision is you - ordinarily it would be you and your Master together, but he's shown a prejudicial hand so imho his opinions don't count.

If you decide to take meds, plan for the worst: it might be shit from him, or he might throw you out. Have a bolthole prepared to cover you till you can find a place of your own and eventually a new Master. The question is do you want a good quality of life pretty much guaranteed or do you want a life where you're never certain that your health will deteriorate so that things go awry anyway (I had a shock last week when I discovered that my legs have deteriorated to the point where I can't fuck standing up any more)

@GoodExercise: if the OP's Master was a respected expert in the HIV field I think he would have said so, therefore I'd be inclined not to think that Master knows what the OP needs.

"Only" 3 had bad complications - unless all three were late diagnosed (in which case they may well already have been ill with an opportunistic infection before diagnosis with HIV) that's 3 too many. Didn't Larry Townshend in one of his Leatherman's Handbooks cite amongst a slave's duties the obligation to keep his own health at its optimum for his Master's enjoyment? (Badly misquoted I know, but my copies got "borrowed")

I can't tell you what to do, only you and your Master can do that, but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying...

[TigerMilner]

I agree with Bearbandit, hit it early and hit it hard. Who is going to die if things go badly, you or your master. Fuck him, do what is right for you.

[TattPig]

In Re: Bearbandit's reference to Larry Townsend...here's what he said in the slave's credo...

#7. I recognize my duty to keep my body in a proper, healthy condition for my Master's use and pleasure.

As for the Master...

#1. I am a Master, and I accept the slave into my loving care and protection.

#2. I will provide the physical and emotional necessities of life for my slave...

#3. I will use my slave's body as I wish, such usage to be limited only by my responsibility not to damage either his physical or mental being.

If the above doesn't describe your current relationship, do as Bearbandit says, and (when you have arranged a safe haven) get the hell away from him.

IMHO, if he is as you describe, he's not a master, he's a control freak who preys on people. A real Master understands his limitations (in this case medical knowledge) and makes allowances. Your only responsibility is to yourself and your health. A relationship only works when it works for both people. Sorry, I've been around that life for long enough to know a good master from a bad one (and the ones who are play-acting). Being a Master is a lot of work--mental work--and many people just don't have it in them. Don't let his failings ruin your future.

[bearbandit]

Tattpig - thank you for supply "chapter and verse" on what I couldn't remember from Townsend. It's actually a lot more forceful than I remember, not having read it for several years. After I wrote the above I had my (distant) FB propose a visit this weekend: one of his job can be finding the volumes of Leatherman's Handbook.

Your last paragraph is brilliantly written and worth keeping.

[TattPig]

Thanks.

I haven't looked at that book in ages, and for some reason I have 2 copies. God forbid that with all those printings he'd ever get around to putting an index in that thing, right? Sheesh.

I recently was at a conference where I saw a presentation that dealt with letting HIV go untreated. It was fascinating information about some details of the immune system, and I'll do a write up of it when I get a bit of time in the next few days. I'll make it a new thread.

Edited July 30, 2013 by TattPig

[Man4manplay]

Our relationship is not exclusive, he doesnt own me, he is more like my poz mentor and converter but i call him master. I have to play by his rules or he just stop seeing me.

[bearbandit]

@Man4manplay - sounds to me like he's a control freak. If you need meds, you need meds more than you need him. The question is how do you want to live? I've been on meds for over 20 years and they've kept me more or less independent, though having taken early versions of some drugs, I've taken some hits. Because of my experience with early versions and prescription routines I can assure you that what you're likely to be offered in terms of meds will be safe, with few if any side-effects, and will extend your life expectancy way beyond what we thought possible when I started AZT monotherapy (1992 was my dead-by date).

@tattpig - I, for one, would be fascinated to see a write-up of that session. Would it be okay to quote it on other board or use it at training sessions for HIV organisations? I'm due to travel to England in a couple of weeks for a training session where I expect to unhinge a few jaws with the ideas I intend voicing - HIV prevention in the UK still goes by 1983's "How to have sex in an epidemic".

[Guest PozGoat]

If you know your #'s and can post them here, It'd give an idea of where your at as far as HIV progression is concerned. You said your VL is low. What is your Tcell count? If you feel comfortable revealing that personal info it'll give a better idea as to where you and your HIV are at.

Newer research suggests that advanced HIV; high VL and low Tcells can do some serious damage to the immune system that in some cases is very difficult to treat and reverse. But that seems to be in advanced HIV or AIDS cases. My best advice is that for now to continue to monitor your HIV #'s with your doc, labs etc. Watch for any trends that indicate advancement of your HIV.

If your VL increases significantly in 2 consecutive labs, or if your Tcells are falling, or a combo of high VL and low Tcells, any of those scenarios and I'd go on meds. That's just me.

[wood]

If you know your #'s and can post them here, It'd give an idea of where your at as far as HIV progression is concerned. You said your VL is low. What is your Tcell count? If you feel comfortable revealing that personal info it'll give a better idea as to where you and your HIV are at.

Newer research suggests that advanced HIV; high VL and low Tcells can do some serious damage to the immune system that in some cases is very difficult to treat and reverse. But that seems to be in advanced HIV or AIDS cases. My best advice is that for now to continue to monitor your HIV #'s with your doc, labs etc. Watch for any trends that indicate advancement of your HIV.

If your VL increases significantly in 2 consecutive labs, or if your Tcells are falling, or a combo of high VL and low Tcells, any of those scenarios and I'd go on meds. That's just me.

I like your posts, Its awesome you are a long term no progressor, but i like the fact that you are giving good information, realizing that you are in the minority.

Back to your original post, IMO you NEED to listen to your doctor in the situation. The alternative you have is like listening to someone who tells you to work in asbestos factory and smoke three packs a day; it will kill you. All the studies now show that unless you are a long term no progressor, early treatment is your best option to good long term health.

HIV infection to AIDS/death is on average about a 10 year progression, after initial infection your VL will stabilize a fairly low level and gradually creep up as your T-cells die. Some are faster some are slower, but the vast majority of people would die from aids if it wasn't for the treatments that are available now.

As far as your "master" is concerned, it sounds like he is on a self destructive path and wants to take some people down with him. Do you really want to be one of them or would you like to live a long healthy life with lots of sex.

[wood]

Tom Hakim 32 here, take your meds if you have a good life, if not do not take any and die two to three years or sooner. Tom Hakim 32.

umm it says he is 32 on his profile, without meds he wont die 2-3 years sooner, he will die 30-40 years sooner

[Guest GoodExercise]

Man4manplay doesn't have the balls to disobey the Master.