HIV and Suicide

[wood]

Like you said, it's one day at a time, but to be completely honest- HIV scares the living shit out of me when I think about my future. I never had the greatest immune system to begin with and when I think about living with this, I just think about constantly being behind the 8 ball healthwise. All I see is a miserable future ahead and that is what is giving me these thoughts about just ending it all now. I'm not sure what I am going to do just yet, but I am sure I will figure it out soon.

I know this is going to be hard for you to realize at this point, but HIV really isnt going to get in the way of anything. I know LOTS of HIV+ people in all walks of life. Some are very successful politicians, some doctors, some lawyers, some musicians, some actors, and honestly you probably know some of them.

Also think of HIV as a catalyst of change. With treatment, you are not going to get any more sick than you have before, its that simple. However, you can boost your immune system any number of ways, from healthy eating, quitting smoking, to exercise. However, don't stop enjoying life!! Think about all that is still out there, what you havent done yet, and what you still can do, because HIV hasn't changed any of that. There really is next to nothing an HIV+ person cant do today, the treatment just works that well.

PM me if you have any other concerns or jsut want to talk.

[libertyx]

Today I went to the funeral of a friend who killed himself. The grief for those left behind following suicide is terrible. You have friends and family. Let them help you.

[GermanFucker]

I think I have a pretty good idea where the anxiety is coming from. It's because I feel like the 180 that this diagnosis did to my life basically is going to bar me from doing everything I wanted to do in life and is going to just give me a future of pure misery. My life isn't going to be worth shit to my family or friends. I'm starting to feel like my life is pointless and all I'm staying alive for is to work and be miserable. So what's the point in staying alive at that point? Just be easier to be dead.

That's the depression talking, which IMHO is your main problem right now. The HIV can be dealt with with meds. And even if it's inconvenient to go on meds for you right now, you still have plenty of time. Your immediate problem right now is depression. Which alters your brain chemistry so that you can't think clearly. It tells you that there's a perfect life out there and you're not worth it.

Well that's bullshit. Everyone has shit to deal with, myself included. Life is messy and sometimes dirty. But that's no reason to feel shameful or worthless. Of course HIV changes a person. So did the heart defect of one of my family members. Being told one might need a transplant soon makes one rethink your options as well. So did the cancer of a close friend, who had both testicles removed at a young age. So did disabilities, autoimmune diseases, accidents, heck one might even say that goes for marrying the wrong partner as well. Not being a gay barebacker doesn't mean your life is perfect. And HIV really isn't different. Don't let anyone tell you one disease is noble and one is dirty. They're all just pains in the ass. But then again, theyre all just things that happen in one's life, and we can adapt to that. Because there are other things as well. Finding the right partner. Building a house. Getting a promotion.

But right now you can't see that. Because your head is all fucked up by the depression. And even without further suicide attempts, living with depression has a significant impact on your health. Probably more so than HIV. Just like treatment for HIV, you need help navigating your way back to mental health. Let me repeat: Your real problem right now is NOT HIV. It's the fact that the shock has rewired your brain and you're not thinking straight. So best see a THERAPIST. You need one right now.

Other than that: Don't shut yourself away from life, instead keep your daily routines. But do things that feel good, even if it's just reading a book while sunbathing in the garden. Approach the changes in your life in a sober way. If you can't make up your mind (which HIV specialist to see, when to go on meds, what insurance to get, whom to tell, etc....) because emotions cloud your judgement, "fake it till you make it", i.e. just act as if it weren't a big deal, as if you were giving advice to a friend and go with the most logical choice. Chances are, it's the right one.

And once you realize, as you will if you just give yourself a little time (with the help of friends and hopefully a therapist), that you're not defective, that it isn't your fault and that you don't owe your family, calmness will set in and YOU WILL BE FINE.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

pop, well stated post there. I can understand that HIV diagnosis feels like a nail in the coffin. But maybe I can reframe this a bit. At a point in maturing we all have to convert from the "if I die" mindset to the "when I die" mindset. It isn't automatic. But at a point, ideally, all of us come to terms with the fact none of us is ********. And, ideally, we come to realize that it isn't the end that exposes who we are, but what we do in the middle before that nail goes in. You present some compelling information about related patterns that has you over emphasizing HIV right now.

Others have had other diseases which, for a time had them pretty much in the same place. I recall a time when I was in the ER, semi conscious, docs were talking near me thinking I wasn't hearing anything; when I heard them say "we're losing him". In retrospect I'm surprised I didn't crap the gurnee right there; thinking death was knocking on my door. Another ER time, I was bleeding out and hit that euphoria stage (a point just before you actually bleed out when everything actually gets peaceful). Each time what tweaked in me was that I wasn't ready to leave just yet.

So, with you POP, where do you stand, HIV notwithstanding? Were it not for the current virus in you; are you done anyway? If your first internal response to that is along the lines of "not no, but hell no"; then its time to take action. What city is closest to you? Not all counseling will empty your already empty wallet. So no need to put that concern at the forefront. But it is time to connect you to better resources...

[bearbandit]

wood, thanks again for the encouraging words. A friend of mine who is also recently poz suggested it to me too. He has been in therapy for a couple of years and said it is very valuable. Two reasons I am hesitant to go to a therapist for professional help

That was one of the reasons I suggested a support group: who are the experts in living successfully with HIV? The answer is people with HIV. I've lived more than half my life with HIV - I spent the weekend at a retreat for PwHIV and tried to count up the years of life with HIV we represented. I couldn't. I'd guess the average "HIV age" at about ten years, but then there were the spanners in the works like me (34 years). You need to talk to other people in the same situation as you, not someone with letters after their name who is very probably HIV unknown. People who'd nod when you say you always carry (I don't know the American) elastoplasts in case you cut yourself (took me a year to get out of that habit).

Then again, I think he takes a bit of an unrealistic approach to what HIV actually is- he says things like "it's not even a disease anymore, it's just a condition." Basically, he makes it sound like it's just take a pill a day and you'll live forever, like it's just so fucking simple. It's hard for me to discuss matters like this with him because we seem to be on two totally different wavelengths.

Like you said, it's one day at a time, but to be completely honest- HIV scares the living shit out of me when I think about my future. I never had the greatest immune system to begin with and when I think about living with this, I just think about constantly being behind the 8 ball healthwise. All I see is a miserable future ahead and that is what is giving me these thoughts about just ending it all now. I'm not sure what I am going to do just yet, but I am sure I will figure it out soon.

I never had the greatest immune system either. If a bug was going round I got it. But, because of the way we're monitored, in the UK at least it's now being reckoned that PwHIV in treatment have a slightly longer life expectancy than the general population. Depending on your point of view it can be either a condition or a disease: mismanage your medication, and it'll become a disease, but if you stick to your pills it can be reduced to a condition. It really is a case of take your anti-retrovirals, and have your doctor look over your bloods every few months. Meanwhile enjoy life. Okay I bitch sometimes about the pills, but that's because early meds were prescribed in overdose and I had an extremely rare reaction to another - my ex-doctor took his eye off the ball. The damage done is irreversible. If we had a more American-style health system, I'd sue. But with socialised medicine if I sued and won I'd just be taking money out of a system designed to help everyone.

It's your choice: you can spend every day having the living shit scared out of you, or you can do something about it. At present you're in what I call lukewarm bath syndrome: it's the middle of winter and the bath water is getting cold and you know there's no more hot water. Instead of a couple of minutes shivering as you dry yourself to get dressed, you snuggle down into the water trying to extract every last bit of heat from it. You know the sensible thing to do is have a couple of minutes shivering as you dry off and get dressed.

My suggestion: find out where the nearest newly diagnosed group is (if necessary book a hotel room for the night) and go to it.

[fillmyholeftl]

Hey "POP",

I Private messaged you...

This link & the whole site, might be helpful.

http://www.thebody.com/content/49985/just-diagnosed-with-hiv-aids.html?ic=3001

I left you my email & phone. Will be in your area next week.

J

[sleazebugga]

Got a couple of m8s who are Poz. Both struggled to come to terms with it, but both are leading happy fulfilled lives now and say that it is not really a great deal.

I have also recently been to the funeral of a (straight) friend who took his own life in the early stages of severe depression before the docs had a chance to get his meds right. His family and friends are all in a bad state now and will take a very long time to get over it.

So.... Please, please go and get help for the depression NOW. It may take a while, but with good treatment you will eventually be able to enjoy life again and spare the people that you care about.

[VersatileBreeder]

I think we all feel the way you are feeling now when we are first diagnosed. I think I was in shock for several months. Do what you need to do to get through it. Here is a link to some resources that even if you are not in South Florida they may be helpful as a referral or even just to listen. Some insurance companies even will pay the cost of plane fare if inpatient care is warranted. I recommend the Pride Institute. They are a rehab that deals with HIV related stresses as well as mental health and substance abuse issues. Message me privately. Check out this link and call them today.

You may feel like "it will bar you from doing everything you wanted to do in life and is going to just give you a future of pure misery". But it is not true. First, maybe what you think you wanted is the source of the misery? Maybe you are used to living for "family or friends" and not for yourself? Sometimes things happen to us that we don't understand but in time we find out that we learn and grow from it. This may just be the very thing that frees you to be who you were meant to be and if friends and family don't embrace that, then fuck them. You have value that you aren't even aware of yet. Find it.

http://prideinstituteflorida.com/resources-and-links/

Tiger, thank you for the referral to the Pride Institute. Unfortunately, with everything I have going on with work, there is just no way I could take that time off of work. Even if I could, I'm not sure how I could slip past my friends and family and just tell them that I'm disappearing for a couple of weeks.

I think there are a few sources of misery, but this HIV diagnosis has been the most major one and has brought all the others to the surface. As you said, this may be one of the first things that frees me and allows me to be who I am meant to be. I have thought about that. In all honesty, I think to be who I want to be, I will have to move away from where I am now. That's something I have thought about doing- maybe an east to west coast move. I don't really have the means to do that right now, but it is something I am considering.

[VersatileBreeder]

If you were in the UK, I'd be talking you into going to a "newly diagnosed" group: general recommendation is that you have a month or two by yourself to try and absorb the news (which you've had) and then start making contact with other people diagnosed at around the same time. A number of the groups in the UK are led by long term survivors. If my group facilitations skills were better (or I could get the training - the recession is hitting the UK hard) I'd be involved in leading such groups.

The biggest problems I've had with HIV have been from early versions of the drugs. I know I seroconverted 34 years ago and have been in treatment for 25 years. That's a third and a quarter respectively of a century. This disease is survivable. I've watched the evolution of drugs since the very first one (AZT), through various snake oil remedies, to what's available now: yes, my present disabilty was caused by HIV drugs, but it was an incompetent doctor (always go by personal recommendation!) who ignored a 1 in 100k possibility. I haven't had an aids related illness in 6 years, when I took a drug holiday after my partner's death.

It sounds a ridiculous thing to say, but medically there has never been a better time to get HIV. Find a support group (newly diagnosed for preference) and GO! Pay attention and be open about how you're feeling. I can't speak for the other poz guys here, but if you think I could help, PM me.

bearbandit, though I am thankful that there are advanced medications that make this a much more survivable illness than what used to be, it's not really the issue that's driving me to this. If I was given a guarantee today that I could take one pill a day, everyday, for the rest of my life without side effects, and I would be healthy as a horse and die from old age, I STILL would be having suicidal thoughts regardless.

I think a group is the best way for me to go at this point. Problem is my schedule- I work two jobs, CRAZY hours and the night they meet is one of the nights I work. So I have to get that all figured out. But once I do, I plan to attend a meeting. I am hoping I don't make any rash decisions before then.

[Guest]

Since groups are hard for you to attend at night here are some options in addition to BZ since you seem to have easy access online. These are just some options.

http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Am-HIV-Positive/19015

http://www.hivaidstribe.com/

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/HIV/support-group

http://www.healthfulchat.org/hiv-and-aids-chat-room.html

Here is a list of resources by state too

http://hab.hrsa.gov/gethelp/statehotlines.html

[VersatileBreeder]

Sounds like you are accepting HIV as the definite end and that it is a closure on life. No life in this world is without a point. Yes, you have a disease that is going to impact you for the rest of your life. But it doesn't have to define you. How you live each day will define you. What hopes and dreams are lost through the diagnosis? You can still live a relatively normal life. With medication and therapy, you can take control again.

You'd be surprised at how many people will still love and accept you even though you have HIV. I've known plenty of people who have contracted the virus and live normal lives. Some have found love, gone on to be prominent people in the community and everything else.

You don't want to throw in the towel. If you did, you wouldn't be seeking help. So, embrace the help that is out there. Find a clinic that can help you, speak to a therapist and find support groups that are available to you. Life is full of shit that can take you down. Each day you do what you can, you make the choice to live.

Please, get the help you need and fight for your dreams and know you are worth it.

azguy, that is pretty much it- I basically think of it as, well, this is the end. What's interesting is that all those years I spent neg and constantly worrying about converting to poz, I used to think to myself, "what would I really do if I actually did become poz?" One thing that always jumped into my mind was, "well, I would probably have to kill myself." So after thinking that for these past few years and my nightmare became a reality, it's now what I am currently grappling with. I didn't have another back up plan.

I know there are people who would still love and accept me with HIV. The problem is, I don't know who those people are. Most people in my life are pretty straight edge. I don't have many gay friends. Most of the friends I have are straight and in committed relationships. Those not in relationships and are promiscuous, practice safe sex. I am not saying that they are at NO risk to get HIV themselves, but they are in probably the lowest risk category. HIV to them is a foreign concept. It's not something they fear and it's not something they think about. So, I don't know how they would handle it if I came out and told them I had it. I don't know who would accept me and who would alienate me. And once it's out there, word spreads like wildfire. That is why I have been VERY secretive about telling any family/friends just yet.

You are right- I don't want to throw in the towel. But at the same time, I really cannot imagine any form of help bringing me round from the state of mind that I am in. The HIV may be a manageable condition, but I feel like the mental damage and depression I suffer largely because of it is like a terminal disease. And it's that terminal disease that I feel no therapist, no group, no doctor and no person may be able to help me with.

[Guest]

azguy, that is pretty much it- I basically think of it as, well, this is the end. What's interesting is that all those years I spent neg and constantly worrying about converting to poz, I used to think to myself, "what would I really do if I actually did become poz?" One thing that always jumped into my mind was, "well, I would probably have to kill myself." So after thinking that for these past few years and my nightmare became a reality, it's now what I am currently grappling with. I didn't have another back up plan.

I know there are people who would still love and accept me with HIV. The problem is, I don't know who those people are. Most people in my life are pretty straight edge. I don't have many gay friends. Most of the friends I have are straight and in committed relationships. Those not in relationships and are promiscuous, practice safe sex. I am not saying that they are at NO risk to get HIV themselves, but they are in probably the lowest risk category. HIV to them is a foreign concept. It's not something they fear and it's not something they think about. So, I don't know how they would handle it if I came out and told them I had it. I don't know who would accept me and who would alienate me. And once it's out there, word spreads like wildfire. That is why I have been VERY secretive about telling any family/friends just yet.

You are right- I don't want to throw in the towel. But at the same time, I really cannot imagine any form of help bringing me round from the state of mind that I am in. The HIV may be a manageable condition, but I feel like the mental damage and depression I suffer largely because of it is like a terminal disease. And it's that terminal disease that I feel no therapist, no group, no doctor and no person may be able to help me with.

I can understand where you are coming from. I would say instead of looking at this like it is the end, instead focus on it being the next step in the journey of your life. Yes, there will be changes you need to make, but again don't define your life because you have HIV. Think about your previous goals, desires and dreams for the future. Now, determine how HIV has ended any of those.

Everyone dies. You can walk outside tomorrow and be hit by a drunk driver. You can get behind your wheel and a semi could smash into you. The risk of knowing that potential death surrounds you has never stopped you from living before. There is still no absolute moment of death for you. Don't dwell on what might happen in 10, 20 or even 50 years from now. Instead, live in the moment.

Now, you also mention you don't know who will love and accept you for who you are. During my 30+ years on Earth, I have found that the number of people who will love you, even when the chips are down are surprising. HIV is a foreign concept for many people, I get that. But this isn't the 80s and 90s. In fact, you'd be surprised at how many people know someone who is HIV+ and they are still loved unconditionally. They may need time to adjust. At the same time, you don't need to share it with the world. You also have the right to not tell anyone, until you are comfortable.

I'm a wordy bastard, and I unintentionally cross boundaries, I will admit it. But you are not alone. Hell, I am a faceless person on the internet, but you can vent to me anytime. I've helped more than a few people deal with HIV and cared for them in the various stages of the illness. You also have an entire website of people who will help you too. So, yeah we're internet strangers, but we're all here for you and you do have an eclectic group of friends and allies here.

[hungry_hole]

We usually ignore feelings of shame and becoming poz can certainly trigger many feelings of shame. Shame is misunderstood so we seldom deal with it properly.

Depression is a direct consequence of feelings of shame. Because shame is such powerful and uncomfortable experience we shut down shame and experience feelings of depression or many times violence. Donald Nathanson, a psychiatrist from Philadelphia and an expert on shame, explains all of this very well with something he calls The Compass of Shame. You can watch a video at

. Depression is the Attack Self of the Compass of Shame.

The shame associated with becoming poz is triggered because there's a sudden end to an expectation one had of oneself. This experience will vary from person to person and social environments. In the case of poptronic, from what I have read, his expectations have to do with a family and friends expectations of a "heterosexual life" and in his case becoming poz forces a sudden stop to a series of dreams and fantasies which were joyful and exciting. Thus, the feelings of shame that are a direct result of this drastic change in mood.

The video explains the Compass of Shame but in order to better understand Nathanson's concepts on shame it's best to read some articles available in the Internet.

What Nathanson suggests is that rather than escaping from shame one should face it and learn from that experience so one can live a more emotionally peaceful life.

[VersatileBreeder]

Just curious to any guys who have been to these support groups for poz guys... What goes on at those meetings? What do they talk about and what do they do? I would probably be able to have a better inclination about going if I knew what to expect before going but I really have no clue what to expect.

[fillmyholeftl]

I just returned from facilitating a "support group". This one is actually a structured 18 week program. just GO. You've been given a lot of GREAT advice and you need to live in "THE SOLUTION" rather than the problem.