Why Do Some Want A Disease?

[tallslenderguy]

When I first pitched up here I was working in HIV prevention and my aim was to understand the chasing mindset. Basically, you can't, any more than explain to someone who's not into drag the delights of a garter belt and stockings (something a FB of mine was faced with recently: he shut his eyes and thought of Wales while getting pounded, but that's another story).

 

PrEP, of course, rules out the inevitability idea. Even in the UK, without government approval, we're talking about how to get tenvir-EM, which hospitals will do the testing outside of STI/HIV testing that's necessary, and the whole concept of clinic hopping. Finally I'm not telling people obliquely "message me privately"... Very, very few HIV- men can't tolerate truvada (and there are other drugs in the pipeline) and the chances of meeting a guy with an infectious viral load whose virus is resistant to both tenofovir and emtricitabine is vanishingly small.

 

While I, as a long term survivor of HIV, still can't claim to understand the chasing mentality, especially in the light of the tool we now have in PrEP to avoid infection, so condomless sex is safer than it has been for more than thirty years, you can't deny that a few people are still chasing. It's a threat that's become eroticised, but one which falls down with the progress we've made against HIV. I even wrote fiction to try and get inside of the mind of a guy who was chasing, and fell down in that I couldn't. Get into his mind, I mean.

For those who feel that getting HIV is inevitable, the attitude of wanting to know who it was who gave them HIV I can understand: somebody fucked me in early 1980, I seroconverted and would dearly love to know who it was just to know if his luck held as well as mine. The preservation/passing on of DNA plays into the daddy idea here as well.

Hepatitis C is different in that it's seen as an acute illness, even though it can show very few symptoms, if any, for a fairly long time. With HIV there's always the chance element. I know guys who were infected after me who died within ten years (my two life-partners did), whereas I personally know someone who was infected before me, and via facebook know guys in the USA who were infected before me.

 

Finally there's the taboo element: "nice" boys don't do the sort of things that you can catch HIV from. Just yesterday on Facebook I read a reference to "the biohazard and piggy crowd" and it definitely wasn't meant affectionately! HIV has been around long enough now to have shaped our entire way of thinking about sex, giving us new ways of rebelling against "cultural norms". That, if nothing else, is an argument for why the Breeding Zone should be here and why I still recommend Tim Dean's book "Unlimited Intimacy" (so much so that after the paperback I went on to buy the ebook), even though it's over ten years old now.

 

Barebandit, thanks for your thoughtful (and thought provoking) reply. I don't think there is one simple or standardized answer to this question, but I do think we can understand... if not 100%, at least have some understanding. I think you offer some great insight. 

 

My thoughts go towards what you alluded to re bad boys and rebelling against cultural norms. There's always been an element of culture that lives on the edge of evolutionary change, bucking the status quo. I see chasers as a kind of a 'Band of Brothers,' putting themselves in harms way, but in the process, establishing a camaraderie of fraternal brothers where members are connected by the same bond. I think there is a drive to belong in all of us, and I see this desire (need?) expressed by chasers often.  In this case, getting "pozed" is the rite of initiation one must go through to be accepted as a member.

[snaketat]

Thanks for starting this important thread.  No doubt, anyone who participates (from fantasy to fulfillment) must consider this subject.  I believe fully that every single person on sites like this have a common desire, but an individual path to get there.  It is the sum of our personality plus our desires for the future that equals where we want to be regarding pozzing.  Since those are two truly individual numbers, the answer--if you just talk the talk or if you walk the talk, will be different.  Perhaps there are broad categories, but I would prefer that each of us is here for a very unique reason.

 

My belief then, is that the root reasons for interest in pozzing are not going away.  The desire will be there.  What we CAN do is make sure that each of us really know ourselves.  Acting on this desire must be out of a well understood desire and recognition of the consequence.  Ending up being poz simply because you fell in here rather than address a deeper issue is wrong.  Don't substitute trying to get pozzed for something that is already a problem.  Fix the other problems first and you will be more certain if you want to continue on this path.

[negbtm]

On 10/17/2015 at 1:10 PM, 757neg4poz said:

One of the vain reasons I had considered bugchasing in the past is that I have felt ostracized from the main gay community, and had believed that the poz community would be more supportive? I have body image users and believed getting HIV was one way to reconcile my destroyed self-image with my body.

Thanks for sharing this. A lot of my desire to chase stemmed from similar feelings. 

I recently realized a part of it is also because when poz guys try to infect me it makes me feel *wanted* in a way I've never felt before. 

[PozTalkAuthor]

I try to be as rational as I can.

There are several supposed reasons why someone chases. Sense of community? Taking destiny under control? Liberation from anxiety and stress associated to STI probability? Or even a sort of biological connection among people living the same experiences.

Last but not least, the toxic masculinity associating the man's identity to someone whose penis changes others' life permanently - being it pregnancy or HIV, a sort of "super-power". Then homophobia and stigma which always consider you to be destined to HIV and death, and you try to have that under your control.

They're assumptions and everyone has their reasons, but I think that as far as you fly with fantasy, there's no harm. If fantasy then turns into desire (I mean wanting to make it concrete), judgments are not the solution.

I've honestly spent years wondering why I have this fantasy; in the end I decided to embrace it as it is without any longer questions.

[tallslenderguy]

3 hours ago, PozTalkAuthor said:

I try to be as rational as I can.

There are several supposed reasons why someone chases. Sense of community? Taking destiny under control? Liberation from anxiety and stress associated to STI probability? Or even a sort of biological connection among people living the same experiences.

Last but not least, the toxic masculinity associating the man's identity to someone whose penis changes others' life permanently - being it pregnancy or HIV, a sort of "super-power". Then homophobia and stigma which always consider you to be destined to HIV and death, and you try to have that under your control.

They're assumptions and everyone has their reasons, but I think that as far as you fly with fantasy, there's no harm. If fantasy then turns into desire (I mean wanting to make it concrete), judgments are not the solution.

I've honestly spent years wondering why I have this fantasy; in the end I decided to embrace it as it is without any longer questions.

Wow, OP was nine years ago, kinda cool to revisit the discussion.

First off, i thoroughly agree that "judgements are not the solution." i think such judgements are often based on unsubstantiated bias. Life is so damned complex, we know so very little.

 i've had a few thousand cocks inside of me so far in this life (i cannot account for former lives lol), and i can count on one hand the number of times a condom was involved. i watched my oldest brother die a horrible death from AID's during the 80's, and it didn't really even pause my pursuit of Men or Their desire and need to cock me.  i also, cannot account for my own need/desire to connect or bond fully with a Man where He leaves some physical part of Himself inside of me, but i do not see that as that much different than "chasing."  Yeah, it does have the added element of acknowledging a virus, but i don't really see it as all that different from receiving any Man into me Who expresses need or desire to penetrate and seed me? To me, it's a pretty narrow distinction, and seems to have a lot of similar driving components behind it. 

When i first started this post, i was neg.  With @tallbtm encouragement, i went to get prep and discovered i was poz when getting tested for it. i immediately went on meds and have been undetectable since. i still advocate for PrEP, but feel no judgment for those who opt out. i do think it's the better way to go, but i also like prime rib and eat it even though i know it'll give me vascular disease. And, i think all of us can identify similar choices, so who is really in the superior position to judge?

[BlueSaphir]

As for someone who has HIV and progress to AIDS. No you don’t want this disease. 

 

You will face discrimination in our own community. It will take away your normal life. You feel more isolated and helpless. No you don’t want this. 

[hntnhole]

I can only reply with my own thoughts on the issue:

Life is complex, choices are many, and some irreversible.  I fully understand that a disease can be transmitted as a result of following our sexual needs, and taking whatever steps are available to prolong decent health while also choosing to deal with risks of the kind of sex that makes fucking worthwhile as acceptable.  The only caveat I have, is that the choice be an informed one.  

So I had a small group over for the 4th (it was my turn), two of which have been + for years, two not.  Both of the + guys have been on meds and remained healthy all this time, one "retired" from having sex, one only became more voracious when he converted.  One of them reported some potentially good news, in that in the fairly near future, some kind of inoculation to "cure" hiv is in the works.  That's only hear-say, but it would be reasonable that medical folks have been working on it since hiv first came along.  

My only hope is that all of us put in the intellectual work to decide.  Some guys sero-converted without actually "chasing".  Some guys chased/are chasing, and that's their own decision to make.  Some guys become so afraid they simply deny themselves any raw sex at all.  Point:  it's up to each guy to figure out what he needs most, and no one can offer judgement of other guys decisions. 

Hopefully, we can inform ourselves to our best ability, reflect on what's crucial to our existence, what isn't, and proceed without guilt or regret.  We can only decide what's most important for our own selves, reflect on any/all available information, and make our lives - in all it's various definitions - count.      

[757neg4poz]

On 7/4/2024 at 4:44 AM, negbtm said:

Thanks for sharing this. A lot of my desire to chase stemmed from similar feelings. 

I recently realized a part of it is also because when poz guys try to infect me it makes me feel *wanted* in a way I've never felt before. 

I really didn't realize I wrote this years ago until I logged back in but I still have this compulsion. I've recently stopped my PrEP and found a gifter this year to itch this burning desire.

[PozTalkAuthor]

I often talk about BreedingZone as the trigger for me to embrace my kink - to help me actually accept that the virus is a part of who I am, and this approach has changed my way to accept meds as well. Not something to fight, but someone to feed, and if I don't feed them, they'll eat me.

But the major trigger has been "an early frost" movie, created in 1985. 

I don't remember the exact scene but a very ill guy, talking about AIDS, told the main character "it's the only fraternity I rushed, that let me in".

Here it was. The sense of belonging, the biological connection among people. No, among MARGINALIZED people.

I think the keyword of it all is "AWARENESS".

Glorifying a disease is not wise at all, in fact I tend to stop new guys' enthusiasms here; the sense of community isn't completely true - the virus does NOT automatically make you a member of a community if you don't create a good group around you before.

And everyone must be aware of what real world is all about!

Another supposed reason I forgot to mention? Someone may desire to go down that path (not only poz, but all the way down to AIDS) for a sort of self-punishment. Not feeling loved by their social backgrounds, they feel a self-destruction instinct.

And the more and more homophobic politicians around the world, should consider their own conscience - I honestly wonder if they manage to sleep at night time.