If it was up to you to set a new age of consent, what would the age be and why?

[phillygwm]

Culturally, we've all read about ancient Rome and Greece where older men with younger boys were just the way things were done.  Presumably, those boys weren't horribly scarred from the experience because it was deemed normal back in the day.  Fast forward to today:  Sex is dirty, gay sex is still largely considered immoral, and large age gaps between partners are seen as inherently exploitative.  Whether that's "right" or "wrong", that's what we're taught as a society and there are ramifications for those who deviate from that.  Maybe in another 100 or 1000 years it will be normal again but we're living in 2024.  

If an older person is having sex with a 12 year old, even if it were made legal, it would still be frowned on by our society. Thus, it would still likely need to be done secretively.  If you can't tell people, especially your family, what you're doing, a kid will draw the conclusion that there must be something wrong or "dirty" about it.  Knowing that if they were discovered, the kid would be "in trouble "with his parents, that's an awful lot to put on a 12 year old.  IMHO, THAT'S what messes people up.  It's a much heavier burden than experimenting with the neighbor kid in the basement, not that you'd want to be caught in either scenario.  Another issue is one of power imbalance:  If you're my coach or mentor, I might feel obligated to put out:  I'm not with you because I'm attracted to you, I'm there because I'm afraid you'll cut me from the team, or you won't otherwise help me anymore.

The issue is picking an age of consent number.  It's going to be somewhat arbitrary, not much different than picking a legal driving, drinking or voting age.  Maybe there are some 12 year olds that could handle it.  There are likely some 18 year olds that can't.  A kid doesn't just wake up with emotional maturity one day, nor does it happen to everyone at the same age.

Look at the people on here, for example.  Many don't have any regrets about what they did as a young kid.  But there are a lot of people out there in similar scenarios who were really screwed up by the experience.  

 

Edited December 7, 2024 by phillygwm

[fluffybutt]

Seems we have a lot of pedos here...

Even ones who aren't openly saying anything, i have noticed are still downvoting men who are using common sense here and saying the obvious. Kids are just kids and should not be talked about or thought about in a sexual way, otherwise you have real serious issues 🤮

[Trainingwheels]

On 12/7/2024 at 11:42 AM, phillygwm said:

Culturally, we've all read about ancient Rome and Greece where older men with younger boys were just the way things were done.  Presumably, those boys weren't horribly scarred from the experience because it was deemed normal back in the day.  Fast forward to today:  Sex is dirty, gay sex is still largely considered immoral, and large age gaps between partners are seen as inherently exploitative.  Whether that's "right" or "wrong", that's what we're taught as a society and there are ramifications for those who deviate from that.  Maybe in another 100 or 1000 years it will be normal again but we're living in 2024.  

If an older person is having sex with a 12 year old, even if it were made legal, it would still be frowned on by our society. Thus, it would still likely need to be done secretively.  If you can't tell people, especially your family, what you're doing, a kid will draw the conclusion that there must be something wrong or "dirty" about it.  Knowing that if they were discovered, the kid would be "in trouble "with his parents, that's an awful lot to put on a 12 year old.  IMHO, THAT'S what messes people up.  It's a much heavier burden than experimenting with the neighbor kid in the basement, not that you'd want to be caught in either scenario.  Another issue is one of power imbalance:  If you're my coach or mentor, I might feel obligated to put out:  I'm not with you because I'm attracted to you, I'm there because I'm afraid you'll cut me from the team, or you won't otherwise help me anymore.

The issue is picking an age of consent number.  It's going to be somewhat arbitrary, not much different than picking a legal driving, drinking or voting age.  Maybe there are some 12 year olds that could handle it.  There are likely some 18 year olds that can't.  A kid doesn't just wake up with emotional maturity one day, nor does it happen to everyone at the same age.

Look at the people on here, for example.  Many don't have any regrets about what they did as a young kid.  But there are a lot of people out there in similar scenarios who were really screwed up by the experience.  

 

Phillygwm-

yours was the most rational response (along with Nate88’s attempts at civil discourse) so I thought I’d weigh in here, because the more I read the more irritating I find some of the responses because they have the effect of misdirecting and misrepresenting what could be a really interesting discussion as evidenced most recently to the immediate reply to your post. Not to single out that response as anywhere near the worst, just the most recent. 
It’t a combination of being a libra and a debate nerd, but l find that I have very little patience for people who use language in a way that misrepresents the meaning of certain words (yeah they have real actual meanings not up for interpretation) or to misrepresent another person’s statement or point of view. Whether done willfully or unintentionally the result is still the same. It shuts down discourse on the actual subject and shifts it onto an argument about who said what. It’s a great strategy for stopping any sort of learning or greater understanding of the topic and your fellow man. Just look at our President. Self righteously screaming at someone in all caps for something they didn’t actually say isn’t a cute look. Or as my southern grandmother used to say “ you just can’t argue with crazy!”  
so before you come for me, please at least pick up a dictionary. I’m not a pedo because I don’t automatically agree that the age of consent should stay at 18. The student teacher who I had my first kiss with when he was 21 and I was 15 wasn’t either. Again, words have actual meanings. He was no more predatory than any other man is when he is attracted another guy at the gym or in a bar or walking through the grocery store. What made the situation hard for me and where I would spend a lifetime of exploring my feelings on the situation was not about him or my age. It was about the nonstop message l was given since birth that gay was an abomination.  A sin against God himself (and by extension in my mind against the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus). It was years before I could comfortably masturbate on a Sunday ( or for that matter at church!). I lived in real fear that this year was the year that there would be no chocolate filled basket for me to find and only a bucket of coal waiting for me under the Christmas tree. 
And please don’t try and tell me it’s because I wasn’t emotionally mature enough to make decisions for myself. How the actual fuck would you know? Better yet how about giving us a definition of emotional maturity so we could actually assess your claim. I can tell you that I was constantly described as “ a very mature little man for my age ,” starting at 5. “He’s four going on forty,” was another favorite, so maybe it was before 5. I can’t with math. 
one more thing on education: coming of age during the early years of the AIDS epidemic basically forced the country to give us kids (see I just did it there! Slipping in the word kids to imply much younger aged participants than I really meant). I mean teenagers sex education. My mother even took me to a special sex education workshop around the book Our Bodies Ourselves. And guess what none of the adult men who were discussing our bodies or ourselves and sex with a bunch of teenaged boys were pedos for that. Some of them coukd have been pedos but that would depend on an entirely different set of criteria. Look it up! 
The most controversial thing I’m going to say is that I don’t really think that the age of consent has any effect on the people below the age despite being an attempt to legislate a specific morality. I’ve always seen it as being much more effective at criminalizing those above it for their actions. Again slow your roll haters. That sentence doesn’t say that I support rape, or forced sexual action, or kidnapping or child labor, including when it involves Kathy Lee Gifford, or sex trafficking.  Those thinks are all punishable by law regardless of an arbitrary age of consent. 
Ah yes, arbitrary.  Don’t like that word either do you. Well suck it up buttercup. It’s the truth. Whatever age you pick, it says more about you and your beliefs than it does about all the children in the world. And you know what? That’s fine with me. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion on this subject. Please just have the good grace and clarity of mind to understand that’s all it is. Your opinion.
So here is my opinion. Again, I am not a pedo or a predator or pushing any agenda.  Also not in denial. Not a liar. Just because you don’t agree with me doesn’t make me wrong anymore than it makes you right. Look up opinion.
You know when human children are sexually mature. ? The same time all other mammals are: when our bodies reach sexual maturity based on millions of years of evolution. Mother Nature doesn’t play. If you think you can win an argument with her? Have at it. I grew up with Parkay commercials and I don’t fool with Mother N. I also don’t squeeze the Charmin. But hey, you can’t argue with crazy. 
 

[phillygwm]

The other thing is express or implied coersion.  I was 10 my first time...with another 10 year old.  We were precocious kids!  I was mature enough to handle it on that level.

If it were a significantly older relative, teacher, authority figure, etc. I might not have said no because I was taught to respect/obey your elders.  But that wouldn't be the same as saying I wanted it.  Again, I don't think there's a red line to be drawn on age because situations -- and maturity levels -- differ.  

Personally, even if I were attracted to someone underage and even if it were legal, I don't think I would do it because I'd never want to f up someone for life.  Again, some people -- including on here -- handled it OK.  But others don't and I couldn't live with messing someone up on my conscience.

Edited February 14 by phillygwm