Republicans May Get Gay Marriage Repealed

[rawfuckingonly]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:16 PM, Erik62 said:

Like all radical groups simple solutions are not acceptable. 

Leftoid extremists take note ^^^ 

😁😁😁

[Erik62]

3 hours ago, BergenGuy said:

Do you have a link where a church has been taken to court to force it to recognize same-sex marriages?  I don't mean a suit against a church in its capacity as an employer, but as a religion?  No lawsuit trying to set theological policy for a church would be successful in the US.  Workplaces and other business organizations are subject to anti-discrimination laws.

In Australia, we have had many instances of costly legal battles because, eg: a gay student wants to attend a discriminatory school, employees & organisations also. Why would anybody want to school or work in an antagonistic environment.

  Anti-discrimination (DEI) laws can also be heavily biased to one side & the end result is a "FORCED" solution which in many cases benefits no one. 

  As a male nurse I faced many work placements when DON's (Matrons) were lesbians & simply REFUSED to employ male staff. I applied to 10 training hospitals & was rejected, as a male, by 7 With that environment I would NEVER have taken legal action to force them to employ me. 

  NB: You say that this would not happen in the US, then I ask, "How did Trump get into power???" & "Why is the US currently in such a fucked up mess???". It is precisely because of these conflicting social issues of ALL types of discrimination & I honestly believe the trans issue has been the catalyst. 

[Erik62]

41 minutes ago, rawfuckingonly said:

Leftoid extremists take note ^^^ 

😁😁😁

Also as applicable to extreme right wing & moronic Trumpists. 

[Malicon]

On 3/22/2025 at 5:35 PM, onlyraw said:

There are several countries (I think Germany is one) where all the marriages are civil ceremonies at city hall … and then if you also want a religious wedding afterwards you can ….  That would certainly be a solution 

It makes me mad when various religious institutions get all twisted about gay marriage…. The solution is really easy… don’t perform them in your church 

Just like the Catholic Church doesn’t “marry” a couple if one of them has been divorced… 

Yes, I can confirm that in Germany marriages are civil ceremonies, and these are the only legally valid ones here.

[Malicon]

Viewing the US from outside, folks, I am sorry, but the US are in many ways acting like an outdated organisation of the 19th century... this dominance of religion, this outdated system to elect your president, this unability to reforms of constitution, this aversion against health insurance for everybody.

I do not want to offend anyone, but I believe I am not the only one just looking deeply frustrated on the US.

To my impression, only judges try to stop Trumps fascism (although I think he is intellectually unable to be a real fascist) at the moment, I do not see any significant resistance from the Democrats as well as the civil democrats, the people?

[PozBearWI]

Although do understand that the democrats in the Federal government have no power to do anything.  Fortunately in the US we also have State, County and municipal governments.  

[Erik62]

4 hours ago, Malicon said:

Viewing the US from outside, folks, I am sorry, but the US are in many ways acting like an outdated organisation of the 19th century... this dominance of religion, this outdated system to elect your president, this unability to reforms of constitution, this aversion against health insurance for everybody.

I do not want to offend anyone, but I believe I am not the only one just looking deeply frustrated on the US.

To my impression, only judges try to stop Trumps fascism (although I think he is intellectually unable to be a real fascist) at the moment, I do not see any significant resistance from the Democrats as well as the civil democrats, the people?

"dominance of religion ..... " appears to be, being used as a tool for gain, much as with the Roman Catholic Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, Henry VIII & other religious or quasi religious occurrences. Trump & the Heritage Foundation are simply using the "out of mainstream Christian" evangelicals 🤔??? as an electoral base because they will inevitably be of a lower socio-economic-education group & be more malleable & prone to manipulation by people with strong coercive speeches that prey on this groups fears of social & economic injustices. 

  Trump is using religion as a method to attain his desires rather than for the populations benefit. 

 

[ellentonboy]

On 3/21/2025 at 10:18 PM, BergenGuy said:

We need to do away with the idea that a member of the clergy can legally marry a couple.  Every marriage should be registered with civil authorities and ONLY those marriages are legally valid.  If the couple wants to go on to have a religious ceremony, they can do so but it would have no force of law.  The civil recognition would need to be called "marriage" to avoid problems when couples visit other countries that don't recognize "civil unions."  Religions can call the ceremony whatever they want.

With that being said, I just want to see if I understand what you are saying......If I was married at my county courthouse, by a justice of the peace, will this marriage be considered valid and afford me all the benefits of a heterosexual marriages such as death benefits and pensions?  I hate to sound like I am "all about the money" but I mean, if I am putting "married, filing separately" on my income tax form, shouldn't we both have the financial benefits as our straight counterparts?

[BergenGuy]

On 3/24/2025 at 2:49 AM, Erik62 said:

In Australia, we have had many instances of costly legal battles because, eg: a gay student wants to attend a discriminatory school, employees & organisations also. Why would anybody want to school or work in an antagonistic environment.

Hmm ... we could also ask why, in the US, Blacks sued companies that practiced discrimination?  After all, who would want to work in such an antagonistic environment?  But, there is no social change without brave pioneers, people willing to take unpopular actions.

The examples that you gave were all commerce or employment.  Do you have examples of where people sued to force a religion to take a different theological position regarding same-sex marriage?

[BergenGuy]

9 hours ago, ellentonboy said:

With that being said, I just want to see if I understand what you are saying......If I was married at my county courthouse, by a justice of the peace, will this marriage be considered valid and afford me all the benefits of a heterosexual marriages such as death benefits and pensions?

Well, if you are married at the courthouse by a Justice of the Peace, you DO have all the benefits of heterosexual marriages.

What I was posting was my opinion that ALL marriages should be civil marriages.  If a couple wants a religious ceremony, fine.  But, it would be superfluous.  The only thing that would legally matter would be the civil marriage.

In my view, Alabama does it the right way, albeit for the wrong reasons.  In Alabama, a couple completes a form and both signatures are notarized.  They submit the form to a probate court with the appropriate fee, and they're married.  No marriage license, officiant or ceremony needed.  If the couple wants a ceremony, religious or otherwise, they can do so but it is legally irrelevant.

[Erik62]

2 hours ago, BergenGuy said:

Hmm ... we could also ask why, in the US, Blacks sued companies that practiced discrimination?  After all, who would want to work in such an antagonistic environment?  But, there is no social change without brave pioneers, people willing to take unpopular actions.

The examples that you gave were all commerce or employment.  Do you have examples of where people sued to force a religion to take a different theological position regarding same-sex marriage?

As I said many instances & I did include areas such as education & religion. To make the list that you "REQUIRE" would keep me busy for at least a week & I would still not cover the gammut of legal actions taken in this country, to push an issue for, often publicity, rather than find a much more appropriate option / solution. The catalyst for the current world right wing crisis has been the "trans" issue of men in women's spaces, sports etc. 

[BergenGuy]

25 minutes ago, Erik62 said:

As I said many instances & I did include areas such as education & religion.

I specifically asked about legal attempts to force a church to change its theology.  The situation is probably different in Australia, but I know of no attempts in the US, and you haven't cited any such actions in Australia or the US.

In the US there have been suits that allege employment discrimination by church-affiliated schools or church-affiliated adoption agencies with public contracts, but that falls into the area of commerce (which is regulated), not theology.  

[Erik62]

9 hours ago, BergenGuy said:

Well, if you are married at the courthouse by a Justice of the Peace, you DO have all the benefits of heterosexual marriages.

What I was posting was my opinion that ALL marriages should be civil marriages.  If a couple wants a religious ceremony, fine.  But, it would be superfluous.  The only thing that would legally matter would be the civil marriage.

In my view, Alabama does it the right way, albeit for the wrong reasons.  In Alabama, a couple completes a form and both signatures are notarized.  They submit the form to a probate court with the appropriate fee, and they're married.  No marriage license, officiant or ceremony needed.  If the couple wants a ceremony, religious or otherwise, they can do so but it is legally irrelevant.

Wrong, unless the country or state that you wish a gay CIVIL union recognises such, then you are not able to "marry" as heterosexuals are allowed to do. 

[Erik62]

6 hours ago, BergenGuy said:

I specifically asked about legal attempts to force a church to change its theology.  The situation is probably different in Australia, but I know of no attempts in the US, and you haven't cited any such actions in Australia or the US.

In the US there have been suits that allege employment discrimination by church-affiliated schools or church-affiliated adoption agencies with public contracts, but that falls into the area of commerce (which is regulated), not theology.  

I am not your educator, research yourself. As I have stated, the cases are too numerous to & not necessary to cite on this forum. None of us a writing a thesis. 

[Erik62]

Just now, Erik62 said:

I am not your educator, research yourself. As I have stated, the cases are too numerous to & not necessary to cite on this forum. None of us a writing a thesis. 

NB: Any gay student attempting, by legal action, to enter an anti anti-homo orientated school is an attack on theology to change their basic tenets.