Top, bottom, versatile "labels."

[tallslenderguy]

i read a profile today on a site i frequent that read: "...no top or bottom labels, i prefer spontaneous...."  In his profile though, he still identified as "versatile."

This sort of triggers me, i suspect it comes from having escaped a religious culture that insisted there is no such thing as being gay, that it is a choice. It took me a long time to process out of that web. i do not 'know' that being a "total bottom" is a similar situation for me, but it sure feels like it, and it brings back feelings of being unseen when some gay guys seem to believe there is no such thing as 'me' (i.e., a "total bottom").

 i know i'm not alone in encountering this. i've read Total Tops who have encountered this as well as total bottoms. i usually won't even hook with a versatile guy unless i know him well enough to know he understands and accepts what it means for me to be total bottom.

i take identifiers like "Total Top, total bottom, versatile, etc." at face value. If a guy uses one of those labels, i figure he knows himself better than i do. i'm put off by guys who seem to truly believe that being Total Top or total bottom or versatile is a choice, and imply that one is just being selfish.  To me, it feels the same way as the religious people who say one is not really gay, just choosing that.  

i almost never encounter this from someone who identifies as Total Top or total bottom, it's something i encounter from versatile guys on a regular basis though... to the point where i often don't even try to connect with a versatile guy. 

i'm curious to read what others think about this?  Do you put identifiers like "Top, bottom, versatile, etc." in the category of choice, or is it more just a matter of fact for you?

For me, being "total bottom" is a lot more than a physical/sexual position, there's a complex psychological side to it, and i have come to see "Total Top" and "Versatile" the same way. i do subscribe to the spectrum theory when it comes to human sexuality, but for me it has not proven to be very fluid. i can trace my bottom/subish nature back to early childhood, so i do not see myself suddenly becoming top or versatile. Being bottom doesn't really feel like a "choice" to me, though i can choose what to do about how i feel, i still feel that way.

How about you? How do y'all see this?

 

[Faggotuser]

Bottoms are often born bottoms. Like they were born to get fucked and take loads. This bullshit bottom shaming is why so many bottoms feel like they need to say they're versatile. l say if you're a cumdump, own it faggot.

[thejadoman]

I think this person who prefers spontaneity is a special case. He is likely into both topping and bottoming, and probably enjoys not really knowing how things are going to play out until he's in the moment. He might also not always do anal in the first place.

From my experience, bottoms list themselves as "vers" or "vers/bottom", and will try to get actually vers guys (who intend on flipping) to fuck them. If you're a total bottom, that's fine, just don't keep trying to get me to fuck you when I've clearly stated that I'm looking to flip. Vers guys who try to convince total tops or total bottoms to do what they don't want to do are just as shitty. 

It does feel bad when you finally find someone that seems to be promising, and when you mention flipping, or putting their dick in any of your holes at all, they say "I'm a bottom", or "I don't top", yet their profile says they're versatile or vers/bottom.  

I'm usually open to topping or bottoming, so I leave my profiles at "vers". Sometimes when I'm looking to top, someone comes along and I want their dick in me, and sometimes when I'm looking to bottom, I see someone I need to fuck. I can see the practicality of changing your profile to match your current mood though.

I think every man can get pleasure from their dick or their prostate, but the psychological component to sex also plays a part in what people want to do. I've noticed that on this site, being submissive and degradation is heavily attached to bottoming, and dominance and superiority with topping, which I think is a choice, but who cares? If you like something, and only want to do that, that's your right. Don't let other people bully you into doing what they want you to do. If it feels like it's something inherent to you, then just go with that and tell everyone who gives you shit to fuck off.

 

[Cumfilledbottomboi]

9 hours ago, Faggotuser said:

Bottoms are often born bottoms. Like they were born to get fucked and take loads. This bullshit bottom shaming is why so many bottoms feel like they need to say they're versatile. l say if you're a cumdump, own it faggot.

I’m a Cumdump and I definitely own it!

[nycBarebackbaby]

13 hours ago, Cumfilledbottomboi said:

I’m a Cumdump and I definitely own it!

'atta boy

[FunCheerSlut]

Hi guys. Is this about "labels" we use to describe our preferred role? OR is it about the fact that guys may misrepresent or NOT know what they want when negotiating a sexual transaction??

@thejadoman you have described the versatile conundrum quite well. I relate to what you describe. I simply enjoy fucking - I do not care if I am giving or receiving.

I consider myself versatile or versatile/bottom, I would never describe myself as a Total Top or a Dom anything. If you read any of my other posts, I am consistently raising the issue of why we need labels at all. It seems the challenge is how we approach and negotiate the sexual transaction. I do not know if labels help or hinder that transaction.

Generally, I tend to think people are usually looking for a "unicorn" type hook-up scenario (the hot guy, with the big thick cock, washboard abs, etc.) and they keep waiting for that "unicorn" to show up - so they never want to commit to a "sure thing". It can be exhausting. 

[Faggotuser]

22 hours ago, Cumfilledbottomboi said:

I’m a Cumdump and I definitely own it!

Good girl

[Guest takingdeepanal]

I'm none of these labels. I'm a SUB. However, since I HAVE to use one, I equate it to being a "Versatile Bottom".

[tallslenderguy]

16 hours ago, FunCheerSlut said:

Hi guys. Is this about "labels" we use to describe our preferred role? OR is it about the fact that guys may misrepresent or NOT know what they want when negotiating a sexual transaction??

@thejadoman you have described the versatile conundrum quite well. I relate to what you describe. I simply enjoy fucking - I do not care if I am giving or receiving.

I consider myself versatile or versatile/bottom, I would never describe myself as a Total Top or a Dom anything. If you read any of my other posts, I am consistently raising the issue of why we need labels at all. It seems the challenge is how we approach and negotiate the sexual transaction. I do not know if labels help or hinder that transaction.

Generally, I tend to think people are usually looking for a "unicorn" type hook-up scenario (the hot guy, with the big thick cock, washboard abs, etc.) and they keep waiting for that "unicorn" to show up - so they never want to commit to a "sure thing". It can be exhausting. 

We need words to communicate, 'labels' are a part of the communication process. For example, if one goes to the store to get a cucumber and ends up with a watermelon because everything was packaged and not labeled, you'd not get what you were looking for. 

People are packaged, we cannot tell just by looking at them whether they wanna fuck or be fucked or___________, so we use words and labels to covey or give a sense of who we are and what we want/need.  Labels are not perfect, but they at least give us some direction, a starting place. 

The challenge i have often encountered with versatile guys (and sometimes bottoms) is them wanting me to fuck or in some way penetrate them. i even try to clarify in some of my profiles: "total bottom, i am not versatile."  i sometimes refer guys to the Urban Dictionary, it has a decent definition of 'total bottom.'  It seems like some guys just do not grasp or believe there is such a thing as someone who is Total Top or Total bottom. my guess is it's because since some guys are indeed wired for both, they just cannot relate to someone not being as they are  and they believe everyone can be like them. It seems to me, a lot of time, it's just a matter of some not taking another at face value. 

i'm sure not looking for a unicorn. i'm looking for a "Top" and that has changed over time to "Total Top" because i really am looking for a TOP, not someone who wants to flip with me... ever.  i do not care about how they look, age, etc.. I do not think thats anything like a unicorn.  I am trying to avoid shape shifters lol. 

 

[blackrobe]

It doesn't matter what I say, what label I use to communicate that I "only bottom", "total bottom", "sub bottom" , when some men see my "pretty dick" (wtftm) they want me to top them. In my experience it's not about the malleability of labels, or the vagaries of communication, it's about people wanting what *they* want regardless of what you say, what you want, or how you're wired. It's about them ignoring and negating your agency.

The reason women haven't historically shown up as rapists very often was that the definition of rape was canted towards the insertive partner as the rapist. Research has shown that when you include "forced to penetrate" in the definition of rape, it turns out lots of women are rapists.

In my mind, a man who's pressuring me to put my dick in them, forcing me to penetrate them when I don't want to, when I don't get pleasure from it, is about to commit a sexual assault just like all those women rapists. 

When a man tells you he's a bottom and you need dick, just believe him and move on. Or don't, and become a rapist.

[Bfspig]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:23 PM, Faggotuser said:

Bottoms are often born bottoms. Like they were born to get fucked and take loads. This bullshit bottom shaming is why so many bottoms feel like they need to say they're versatile. l say if you're a cumdump, own it faggot.

100% this, I was born a faggot, I've never had any inclination to put my dick in anyone - it isn't something I learn or was conditioned for. I was meant to serve cock. 

I am a faggot. 

[NEDenver]

If I saw that profile, I would take away that the poster doesn’t want to walk into an encounter with expectations of where it’s going.  I somewhat get that, although typically I go in wanting/expecting to bottom.  I’m completely good with a change of plans that lands me on top.  Sometimes it’s fun to be the 5’6” dude pounding the fuck out of a 6’2” guy who initially thought he would be on top.

[hungry_hole]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:23 PM, Faggotuser said:

Bottoms are often born bottoms. Like they were born to get fucked and take loads. This bullshit bottom shaming is why so many bottoms feel like they need to say they're versatile. l say if you're a cumdump, own it faggot.

I've been a total bottom all my life but I don't believe I was born a bottom.

I was 21 when I was visiting NYC and stayed at the YMCA near Central Park. The rooms were pretty bad but the atmosphere in the place was so sexual that I didn't care. At least two of the upper floors were assigned to men and a few lower ones to women. While I walked around between the floors for men I found it thrilling seeing all these horny men, either walking on the hallways or bathrooms or when leaving the door of their room open. In the room across the hallway there was an "experienced" bottom and learned some techniques from him.

I also had an older gay friend who was a bottom and I learned from him the passion to be a bottom. I had some wild few days at the YMCA. Somehow very early I understood that as a bottom I could have sex with many guys before I could have to stop. When I masturbated I was exhausted after I came, but at the YMCA I could get fucked and take the cum of many guys, and actually feel like I'm almost having an orgasm while the guy moans and groans cumming inside. When the guy leaves I can play with my hole oozing cum and feeling really horny.

[Guest]

I feel the labels 'top' or 'bottom' and 'dom' or 'sub' are constricting.

That - to me - is the downside of any (self-) labeling and I feel it's much more fun to keep exploring, trying out new stuff to see what's fun and hot and last-but-not-least what gives pleasure to others. Great sex to me is also about free acces to every part of each other's body, both cock and ass. So I fully agree with the text in the profile you read:

On 6/28/2021 at 3:22 PM, tallslenderguy said:

i read a profile today on a site i frequent that read: "...no top or bottom labels, i prefer spontaneous...."

Don't get me the wrong way @tallslenderguy, you have every right to ask for what you like.
It just means you and me have a lesser chance to be sexually compatible.

And that's ok too.

[lfjgnjnhj]

20 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

We need words to communicate, 'labels' are a part of the communication process. For example, if one goes to the store to get a cucumber and ends up with a watermelon because everything was packaged and not labeled, you'd not get what you were looking for. 

Wait … But don’t you think that being labeled or make a label it’s a completely personal decision of every single person in this case? Don’t you think that putting some another on the box to use him or her the way of the porn dictatorship says or how this label is compatible for the “most people” is fucking wrong way? So I’d like to say that this is not your business and not your right to make a label for someone else. 

 

20 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

It seems like some guys just do not grasp or believe there is such a thing as someone who is Total Top or Total bottom. my guess is it's because since some guys are indeed wired for both, they just cannot relate to someone not being as they are  and they believe everyone can be like them. It seems to me, a lot of time, it's just a matter of some not taking another at face value. 

It seems like some guys (probably most of) are too lazy to go out of their “comfort zone” because they are completely incompetent with their communication skills and unfortunately they doesn’t know how to be a “real man”. It’s lack of education and the huge bloated ego with fucking selfishness