Amsterdam announces significant results in PrEP trial

[amsrat]

This week in the Dutch news it's been announced that thanks to PrEP infection rates have dropped by 95% per cent. 200 people are said to have caught the virus in 2010. In  2022 that rate is reported as being 9 people.

As a result of this PrEP will be rolled out from August 2024 and available to all who want it, providing they can afford the 30 euro a month for it.

[Iker80]

That's awesome, PrEP is changing everything. Individually and in the big picture too.

[Guest]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:55 AM, amsrat said:

This week in the Dutch news it's been announced that thanks to PrEP infection rates have dropped by 95% per cent. 200 people are said to have caught the virus in 2010. In  2022 that rate is reported as being 9 people.

As a result of this PrEP will be rolled out from August 2024 and available to all who want it, providing they can afford the 30 euro a month for it.

So it's certain this is nothing to do with Covid shutting down activity to a trickle? With a vastly reduced number of contacts, it would be guaranteed the rate of new infections would fall. I think BigPharma may be pulling a fast one here.

[BootmanLA]

7 hours ago, Yorksub said:

So it's certain this is nothing to do with Covid shutting down activity to a trickle? With a vastly reduced number of contacts, it would be guaranteed the rate of new infections would fall. I think BigPharma may be pulling a fast one here.

I'm sure Covid shut down activity to a trickle in 2020 and into 2021. I think by 2022 most people were back to living mostly normal lives.

And these results are consistent with pre-Covid reductions in infections.

I'm not one to downplay the role of Big Pharma in pushing its products, but there does seem to be enormous preventative value in PrEP, well-established and well-documented. This, plus treatment advances resulting in U=U, is literally a sea change in the progress of HIV.

[cockfun69]

It's likely that circumstances were factored into the report. (Similar to other countries from what I recall.)
But pharma has to make money, I don't really mind if the results are as claimed. (Same if there was a wonder drug for cancer.)
 

[amsrat]

9 hours ago, Yorksub said:

So it's certain this is nothing to do with Covid shutting down activity to a trickle? With a vastly reduced number of contacts, it would be guaranteed the rate of new infections would fall. I think BigPharma may be pulling a fast one here.

@BootmanLA already covered the covid years. It's worth pointing out that the results span a 12 year period.

[fuckholedc]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:55 AM, amsrat said:

This week in the Dutch news it's been announced that thanks to PrEP infection rates have dropped by 95% per cent. 200 people are said to have caught the virus in 2010. In  2022 that rate is reported as being 9 people.

As a result of this PrEP will be rolled out from August 2024 and available to all who want it, providing they can afford the 30 euro a month for it.

[think before following links] https://nltimes.nl/2023/09/25/prep-care-becomes-available-everyone-risk-hiv-netherlands  

[leakyhole]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:55 AM, amsrat said:

This week in the Dutch news it's been announced that thanks to PrEP infection rates have dropped by 95% per cent. 200 people are said to have caught the virus in 2010. In  2022 that rate is reported as being 9 people.

As a result of this PrEP will be rolled out from August 2024 and available to all who want it, providing they can afford the 30 euro a month for it.

That's cool...but let's remember that as one disease disappears, a new one comes in...it's a yin-yang of life, however cruel it sounds. 

[RawSubDad]

2 hours ago, leakyhole said:

That's cool...but let's remember that as one disease disappears, a new one comes in...it's a yin-yang of life, however cruel it sounds. 

So then what’s the new disease? Nothing about the cessation of one disease is automatically linked to a new disease evolving and establishing itself. To the extent it may have looked like that in the past I would suggest the “new” disease wasn’t new at all, but next in line for more of our conscious recognition of it.

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, RawSubDad said:

So then what’s the new disease? Nothing about the cessation of one disease is automatically linked to a new disease evolving and establishing itself. To the extent it may have looked like that in the past I would suggest the “new” disease wasn’t new at all, but next in line for more of our conscious recognition of it.

Indeed. There is literally zero cause-and-effect between getting one disease under control and the rise and spread of another, UNLESS there is some specific interaction between, say, the pathogens that control each. Getting HIV under control is not going to cause a new virus or bacterium to suddenly explode and become epidemic.

[hntnhole]

So you're saying that there would be no correlation / linkage to the fading of one and the rise of another?  If it occurs, it would not be linked? 

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

So you're saying that there would be no correlation / linkage to the fading of one and the rise of another?  If it occurs, it would not be linked? 

Correct - again, UNLESS there was some provable connection between the two.

[viking8x6]

It would not be directly linked.

That said, the available evidence indicates that increasing the population of animals (including humans) beyond the carrying capacity of a system inevitably results in an increase in "unnatural" deaths by one cause or another. Which strongly suggests that if we keep suppressing disease and increasing our numbers, the remaining Four Horsemen, or alternative diseases, will be showing up any time now.

I suspect that is what @leakyhole meant by his post.

[leakyhole]

35 minutes ago, viking8x6 said:

It would not be directly linked.

That said, the available evidence indicates that increasing the population of animals (including humans) beyond the carrying capacity of a system inevitably results in an increase in "unnatural" deaths by one cause or another. Which strongly suggests that if we keep suppressing disease and increasing our numbers, the remaining Four Horsemen, or alternative diseases, will be showing up any time now.

I suspect that is what @leakyhole meant by his post.

Exactly. 

[RawSubDad]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:25 PM, hntnhole said:

So you're saying that there would be no correlation / linkage to the fading of one and the rise of another?  If it occurs, it would not be linked? 

It’s vitally important that we guard against confusing correlation with causation.  For example, we can observe that hospitals are filled with sick and/or injured people and therefore that hospitals are the cause of their illnesses and injuries and therefore greater health comes from staying away from hospitals which would, for the whole of society, be a tragically fatal conclusion to reach. However, sometimes hospitals do make people sick (hospital acquired infections come to mind) but in those instances a direct link has been established through extensive investigation, pathogens and vectors have been identified. They didn’t stop at correlation, they found the linkage. The sequence of events doesn’t establish linkage. Linkage establishes linkage.