Why is San Francisco cruise/sex venue scene so incredibly depressing?

[Close2MyBro]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:40 PM, muscmtl said:

Problem when with wealth, the wealthier the place the more boring the people. 

I don't know if I'd agree with that, I've met and been with a lot of wealthy people and my closest circle of friends are wealthy and we're all [banned word]. I think the biggest problem is discretion, you don't want that kind of news out there if you're in the public eye at all.

[partying.hard]

28 minutes ago, NWUSHorny said:

I'm curious, did San Francisco see a brief but big increase in cruising fucking after COVID? Here in Portland the summer of '21 was the best I've ever seen it, and I've lived here since '07. Things tapered off gradually until Monkeypox hit in the summer of '22 before unfortunately returning to normal.

Yes, it was wild as before … and then MP hit

9 minutes ago, Close2MyBro said:

San Francisco just isn't safe anymore. I've had friends leave because of the out of control drugs and crime, and I've had friends from So Cal tell me they'll never go back again after seeing what the city has turned into.

Agree

[NWUSHorny]

24 minutes ago, partying.hard said:

Yes, it was wild as before … and then MP hit

I don't know of anyone here that actually caught MP at a bathhouse or ABS. Ironically a no touching below the belt, clothed cuddle party was the disease vector for the 2 local guys  I know caught it. From what I've heard the cuddle parties are still popular.

[ellentonboy]

I had problems with homeless individuals who would actually block the entrance to shops and places to eat.  I was ordering dinner at a very nice place, when suddenly  the waiter excused himself to chase a homeless man out of the restaurant. That's incredibly sad.

But here is my gripe.  I rented a very nice hotel room that was gay friendly.  If I had guys over during the day there was no problem. but after 10 pm they locked the doors and I would have to go down to the lobby and let them in.  I don't give a damn if the front desk clerk knows I am a ho, funny one trick actually knew the guy behind the front desk.

What is aggravating is that many locals won't come out to a hotel or motel because they know they will have to deal with the homeless.  My heart breaks for these individuals but I can't give everyone of them a dollar.  So I spent a good bit of money on Lyft because many guys wanted to host, they didn't want to come out at night because they felt it was dangerous.  Did they care if I was mugged?  No.  But I was looking to get laid.

What is sad is I first started going to San Fran for sexvacations in the late 90s, I would see the homeless sleeping in the entry of some shops.  Move ahead to 2007 and they were visible, but they did not cramp my style.  2018 it became obvious there was a problem.  I always stay at the same motel, it's a few blocks from the Castro and I get alot of action, especially during the day.  I'll continue to go there until the situation prevents me from actually having guests in my room.

I love San Fran.  The men are more direct, there is not a "back and forth" like in Los Angeles (nothing against guys from L.A. but it is tough to get around and I find them indecisive).  I'll continue to go to San Fran until I either am robbed, or can no longer hook up without jumping through hoops.

I want the old San Fran back where I can hop online and play with multiple guys in one day and not have to worry about a homeless guy badgering my potential trick!

[Close2MyBro]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:51 AM, ellentonboy said:

I had problems with homeless individuals who would actually block the entrance to shops and places to eat.  I was ordering dinner at a very nice place, when suddenly  the waiter excused himself to chase a homeless man out of the restaurant. That's incredibly sad.

All of California is becoming that way. I used to have a beautiful condo a few blocks from the beach in what used to be a great and prestigious neighborhood and then over the years it became unsafe to be out. I used to be able to walk the streets to the bars and restaurants and not care about what time I wandered home. Then it became I had to be home by 10pm, then 8pm, and then anytime it was dark. My condo balcony also gained a "homeless" view. I had decided I had enough and left. I grew up in California, it used to be a great place to live, but now it's a great place to flee.

[ellentonboy]

50 minutes ago, Close2MyBro said:

All of California is becoming that way. I used to have a beautiful condo a few blocks from the beach in what used to be a great and prestigious neighborhood and then over the years it became unsafe to be out. I used to be able to walk the streets to the bars and restaurants and not care about what time I wandered home. Then it became I had to be home by 10pm, then 8pm, and then anytime it was dark. My condo balcony also gained a "homeless" view. I had decided I had enough and left. I grew up in California, it used to be a great place to live, but now it's a great place to flee.

I am sorry to hear you had to leave your home.  I can't imagine having to give up my place for the reasons you mentioned.  I've read California has the highest number of homeless people.  I hope Las Vegas treats you better...

[akula]

its happening in most big cities, Seattle is a shit hole now I don't bother going there any more. I place alot of the blame on the price of rents going through the roof, when I moved to the area in 96 you could find a decent apt in seattle for under $1000 now those places are $2500+. Wages havent gone up enough to cover that kind of increase. Also the price of commercial space has driven out all the fun little places to go and hang out or shop.  I live in Tacoma, I bought my house 20 years ago for $115k now they say my house is worth almost $400k with hardly any upgrades on my part, thats bullshit my house is nothing special and needs tons of work. This is all unsustainable its all going to crash sooner rather then later.

[cuckie]

SF got what they voted for. High crime, horrific streets infested with filth, crime, and death; sky high rent and tax; half of everything being paved over with dreary sky scrapers. 

I used to work in SF and was educated there and I desire to never return. 

[Close2MyBro]

1 hour ago, ellentonboy said:

I am sorry to hear you had to leave your home.  I can't imagine having to give up my place for the reasons you mentioned.  I've read California has the highest number of homeless people.  I hope Las Vegas treats you better...

I'm doing much better in Vegas. Have a much larger single family home with a pool, great neighbors, a beautiful mountain view on three sides of the house and a view of the strip on the back side, better job that pays more than the one I left in California and no state income taxes. My only complaint is the heat and my allergies are worse here, but other than that I'm glad I left.

[rPup]

I’m generally in agreement with what you all are saying but I want to make a further point that this iteration of San Francisco will not last. 

I won’t deny that the “scene” is on life support, in need of serious care to be sustained at a level we expect, and enjoy - especially in the fetishes we enjoy.

San Francisco was able to be sustained miraculously before and during the pandemic, until yes - Mpx struck. But it wasn’t just that, it also was a large number of minor things that f’ed up everything:

1. Opportunities. Since the cost of living in the Bay Area remained high throughout the pandemic compared with other North American cities - many people, especially queer people working in Hospitality, Retail, Tourism, and Travel  had hours cut or made substantially less money; ultimately choosing to move away.

2. Events…. And places to have them. It got boring. Many LGBT+ venues closed down permanently, from Watergarden to The Stud, and the rest remained shut down for a lot longer than anywhere else in the Western world.

3. Retirement. Quite a few longtime promoters and venue operators threw in the towel. Time to retire. All who is left need to step up to put in the work, or if time is not a possibility- provide oversight, and financial assistance to make it happen. If anyone has any good ideas, I am happy to help do some of the work on this. It takes a village quite a long time before results happen; and San Franciscans generally accept nothing but the best from the get-go. This is a town where first impressions make or break you.

4. Tourism to events we have doesn’t happen when we have few events. We have Folsom / Dore, we’d be anemic without it. Did anyone go tho the Castro Street Fair? Did Frameline happen this year? How was this past weekend with Halloween events? I honestly don’t know.  What’s the draw for tourism when it is impossible to get here and then have little to do once here? Gay Tourism is a huge part of our hedonistic lifestyle and culture. San Francisco was the best sex tourism pilgrimage this side of the Mississippi, now maybe more like this side of the Sacramento River Delta. What is unfortunate is that our Queer nonprofits and City tourism agencies are not doing enough to stop the decline of Queer tourism, or marketing our assets like before. If, in 2024, the BOS expect us to rubber stamp their reelection efforts they are going to be in for a rude awakening.

5. AFFORDABILITY 55K in San Francisco left during the pandemic, but really, how many were queer? How many of us are forced to live outside of San Francisco due to high housing costs? How many times can you remember that “BART Ride of Fame” on a Monday Afternoon, sweaty and gross because it was 97° during the walk from your weekend mess to South Hayward, Walnut Creek BART; or worse, the trip from East Palo Alto - on University nonetheless - to sneak on Caltrain but hide in the bathroom from the fare inspectors, cause you lost your wallet (stolen) and had no way of getting back to SF, or possibly Oakland, and Uber wasn’t invented yet. Maybe this shit was unique to me, but the 55K number was also *only* unique to San Francisco. Hundreds of thousands of people left the Bay Area. Its too unaffordable for LGBT+ that were already here, and Generation Z doesn’t seem too willing to give SF a shot, save for some who don’t mind a good bit of work.

6. Crime. I moved from the westside of SF to live alone downtown and I have to say, it’s essentially a bit overblown. Lower Nob Hill gives one all of the downtown experience. In this area some affectionately call the Tenderloin annex, crime is unfortunate but rare; mostly limited to theft of property, not violent acts. Still, it could be better and safer. I tend to avoid the walk alone at night when I’m needing to go south of O’farrell and much of the TL East of Larkin to about Jones and McAllister.

San Francisco has always been a boom and bust town, but each time people step up and start over. This has to happen or else we will have our own queer SF doom loop.

Edited October 31, 2023 by rPup
Paste in an unfortunate space, East replacing a unfortunate West

[ellentonboy]

On 10/31/2023 at 1:55 AM, rPup said:

I’m generally in agreement with what you all are saying but I want to make a further point that this iteration of San Francisco will not last. 

I won’t deny that the “scene” is on life support, in need of serious care to be sustained at a level we expect, and enjoy - especially in the fetishes we enjoy.

San Francisco was able to be sustained miraculously before and during the pandemic, until yes - Mpx struck. But it wasn’t just that, it also was a large number of minor things that f’ed up everything:

1. Opportunities. Since the cost of living in the Bay Area remained high throughout the pandemic compared with other North American cities - many people, especially queer people working in Hospitality, Retail, Tourism, and Travel  had hours cut or made substantially less money; ultimately choosing to move away.

2. Events…. And places to have them. It got boring. Many LGBT+ venues closed down permanently, from Watergarden to The Stud, and the rest remained shut down for a lot longer than anywhere else in the Western world.

3. Retirement. Quite a few longtime promoters and venue operators threw in the towel. Time to retire. All who is left need to step up to put in the work, or if time is not a possibility- provide oversight, and financial assistance to make it happen. If anyone has any good ideas, I am happy to help do some of the work on this. It takes a village quite a long time before results happen; and San Franciscans generally accept nothing but the best from the get-go. This is a town where first impressions make or break you.

4. Tourism to events we have doesn’t happen when we have few events. We have Folsom / Dore, we’d be anemic without it. Did anyone go tho the Castro Street Fair? Did Frameline happen this year? How was this past weekend with Halloween events? I honestly don’t know.  What’s the draw for tourism when it is impossible to get here and then have little to do once here? Gay Tourism is a huge part of our hedonistic lifestyle and culture. San Francisco was the best sex tourism pilgrimage this side of the Mississippi, now maybe more like this side of the Sacramento River Delta. What is unfortunate is that our Queer nonprofits and City tourism agencies are not doing enough to stop the decline of Queer tourism, or marketing our assets like before. If, in 2024, the BOS expect us to rubber stamp their reelection efforts they are going to be in for a rude awakening.

5. AFFORDABILITY 55K in San Francisco left during the pandemic, but really, how many were queer? How many of us are forced to live outside of San Francisco due to high housing costs? How many times can you remember that “BART Ride of Fame” on a Monday Afternoon, sweaty and gross because it was 97° during the walk from your weekend mess to South Hayward, Walnut Creek BART; or worse, the trip from East Palo Alto - on University nonetheless - to sneak on Caltrain but hide in the bathroom from the fare inspectors, cause you lost your wallet (stolen) and had no way of getting back to SF, or possibly Oakland, and Uber wasn’t invented yet. Maybe this shit was unique to me, but the 55K number was also *only* unique to San Francisco. Hundreds of thousands of people left the Bay Area. Its too unaffordable for LGBT+ that were already here, and Generation Z doesn’t seem too willing to give SF a shot, save for some who don’t mind a good bit of work.

6. Crime. I moved from the westside of SF to live alone downtown and I have to say, it’s essentially a bit overblown. Lower Nob Hill gives one all of the downtown experience. In this area some affectionately call the Tenderloin annex, crime is unfortunate but rare; mostly limited to theft of property, not violent acts. Still, it could be better and safer. I tend to avoid the walk alone at night when I’m needing to go south of O’farrell and much of the TL East of Larkin to about Jones and McAllister.

San Francisco has always been a boom and bust town, but each time people step up and start over. This has to happen or else we will have our own queer SF doom loop.

I posted earlier about my gripes, but I have to say your post gives me hope.  I have not been there since Covid hit, but prior to that, despite issues I posted earlier, I STILL managed to be an absolute whore and enjoy myself.  There is no place like San Francisco, none that cross my mind.  You posted many have fled, I guess we will never know how many were gay.  But I truly believe that the city will rebound, or I will have enough grit to come back, face the obstacles, and continue on my streak of bad behavior.  

The Metro Hotel on Divisadero became my second home, I patronized that place as they never gave me any flack about the number of guys coming in and out of my room.  They respected my privacy when I wanted to sleep rather than have my room cleaned, gave me extra towels because God knows I needed them.  Most of all they  appreciated the fact I came downstairs and unlocked the door for tricks BEFORE they had to ring my room and tell me I had a "visitor".  I miss that place, if the walls in my various rooms could only talk......

[nightcruiser]

The simplest reason I can think of is this: tech is in a recession and San Francisco is tech, so San Francisco is in a recession right now.

[408curious]

On 10/24/2023 at 5:17 PM, lycis said:

SF was fuckin awesome pre pandemic. Contrary to what people are implying here that things died "because of apps" years ago, I was getting tons to great action at parties and events all the way up to 2019. Loads of seedy parties going on, especially Atlas ran ones like Truck, and parties at the old 442 location. I remember going to a random Truck Tuesday, nothing even special going on during that week and there were at least 50 guys there actively participating. The truck they ran during folsom was SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, even just walking down the hall was easy to slip in. I remember going to a dore party from someone who was just running their own thing and lived close to the action and there were at least 100+ guys going hard. Cumunions actually had people there and fucking.

It was easy to 10-20+ loads in a night, and it didn't have to be a big special event.

Then covid happened, and ALL the parties shut down, none of them came back.

Horsemarket started up but it's a very specific vibe and its incredibly overpriced for what it is (but its the kind of price they can afford to charge during folsom... outside of folsom? LOL good luck). There's Pighaus but their parties only run maybe 1-2x a year since they're mostly based out of NYC and they too are incredibly overpriced for what it is.

I agree with other comments. I think what happened was for some reason, the cost of these events just shot way, way up. So you can't really go to them often, which means you only ever bother going to them when you *know* they are going to be populated like for Folsom, otherwise it just isn't worth dropping $30 cash to do a Cumunion party at 1040 transform where most people just watch and there's not that many people there. On top of this, I think a lot of people just left SF when remote work started - its one of the biggest exodus regions in the US during covid.

It really sucks, because now I'm actually quite close to SF so it easier than ever to casually go to these kinds of parties now but it just isn't worth the crazy cost and there just aren't that many of them any more. At least we still have Folsom/Dore, but its a bit disappointing to feel that everyone just "saves their load" for those two times in the year when it wasn't like this in 2017-2019.

 

One slightly good thing though is some of the circuit parties have taken up the slack. I get lots of action at parties that Fog City Pack throw. The last one I went to (beta) actually had a proper fuck area that people were more than happy to use.

Natoma was killed by the real estate market.   Story I heard was the owner of the property passed and her kids wanted to make more money off the building. 

[SFSloppyAznBottom]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:38 PM, NWUSHorny said:

I'm curious, did San Francisco see a brief but big increase in cruising fucking after COVID? Here in Portland the summer of '21 was the best I've ever seen it, and I've lived here since '07. Things tapered off gradually until Monkeypox hit in the summer of '22 before unfortunately returning to normal.

I had a great time mid - late 2020. Lots of straight / bi-curious hot guys were beyond eager and pent up. 

[ScorpionFF]

On 10/27/2023 at 6:33 PM, Close2MyBro said:

I'm doing much better in Vegas. Have a much larger single family home with a pool, great neighbors, a beautiful mountain view on three sides of the house and a view of the strip on the back side, better job that pays more than the one I left in California and no state income taxes. My only complaint is the heat and my allergies are worse here, but other than that I'm glad I left.

Going by your bio and what you mention here about having a pool and a multiple angle view of the beautiful mountains then I am on my way! 👅