Interesting Article About Homosexuality and Darwinism

[NWUSHorny]

[think before following links] https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/4387638-same-sex-attraction-genetic-factors-darwinian-paradox-new-study/

Saw this article this morning, and found it extremely interesting. I know as a bisexual I spent my 20's and a lot of my 30's fucking anyone who would have me and shudder to think how many kids I could have conceived if I had been born before the advent of effective birth control. I've also long thought that either omnisexual or hypersexual were better descriptors for my situation than bisexual or gay (even though I have had sex several magnitudes more men than women). I'd love to see what other bi and gay men think about this.

This really doesn't give me any answers on why there seem to be so many gay men who are mostly or completely averse to sexual activities, which is a topic I'm very interested in for personal as well as intellectual reasons. 

[BootmanLA]

5 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

This really doesn't give me any answers on why there seem to be so many gay men who are mostly or completely averse to sexual activities, which is a topic I'm very interested in for personal as well as intellectual reasons. 

One thing that occurs to me is that given the well-known effects of suppressing libido that a lot of antidepressants, etc. can have, and the increasingly widespread acceptance of mental health concerns, and getting those treated, there may be some interplay at work there. Not for everyone, of course, but...

[NWUSHorny]

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

One thing that occurs to me is that given the well-known effects of suppressing libido that a lot of antidepressants, etc. can have, and the increasingly widespread acceptance of mental health concerns, and getting those treated, there may be some interplay at work there. Not for everyone, of course, but...

That is an interesting point, for me not having sex frequently has a very negative impact on my moods, but not to the point I believe could be classified as clinical depression, that side effect would be a major mental health concern in and of itself for me. Depression itself can reduce libido and my libido wanes slightly during the depressing winter months, yet having sex is considered to be an excellent way to combat depression and absolutely sure it works wonders for me, so I would have a major issue with taking any medication that I could tell was suppressing my libido. I would certainly be asking my healthcare provider about alternatives that are less likely to have that particular side effect, at the very least.

[hntnhole]

Interesting article; thanks for posting it, NWUSHorny.

(from the article)     "But if the errors aren’t random — if, for example, somewhat same-sex oriented people are more likely to misidentify themselves as heterosexual"

I don't see much material about this cultural issue in the article.  What appears to be not in the consideration of the scientists, is that fact that thanks to cultural/religious repressions, it's entirely likely that a number of respondents would keep their sexual behavior to themselves.  They'd have centuries-worth of repression and worse behind their decision.  

To another point the researchers raised, is something I've occasionally noticed:  the gay or straight gene seems to run in extended families, meaning that in any generation, one (extended) family may have more gay men or women in their wider biological family, and the opposite true of families with no known gay members.  

To the point that bi/gay men appear to father more children, could that be since they are simply craving that which we all crave: sex.  If they can't have it the way they want, they'll get it from their second-choice partner - their de rigueur wives - and finding it less fulfilling than their same-sex partners, want all the more sex, hoping to find that which is denied them for cultural/religious reasons. 

"why there seem to be so many gay men who are mostly or completely averse to sexual activities"

My own personal reasoning points to an effective repression of any sexual activities that won't potentially produce offspring.  Cultural, and more importantly religious beliefs can really stunt a gay man or woman's emotional health, and the only way I know of to overcome it is to simply shuck it off as irrelevant to that person's life, and move on.  

 

Thanks for sharing the article !!

 

Edited January 5 by hntnhole

[WillingRawVerse]

On 1/4/2024 at 7:13 PM, BootmanLA said:

One thing that occurs to me is that given the well-known effects of suppressing libido that a lot of antidepressants, etc. can have, and the increasingly widespread acceptance of mental health concerns, and getting those treated, there may be some interplay at work there. Not for everyone, of course, but...

 

This is what I go through every day. Sometimes my libido is raging and I fuck as much as I can for about 2 months, then overnight it seems my libido went into hibernation.

[NWUSHorny]

7 minutes ago, WillingRawVerse said:

 

This is what I go through every day. Sometimes my libido is raging and I fuck as much as I can for about 2 months, then overnight it seems my libido went into hibernation.

Just curious, doesn't the loss in libido lead to deeper depression?

[NWUSHorny]

4 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I don't see much material about this cultural issue in the article.  What appears to be not in the consideration of the scientists, is that fact that thanks to cultural/religious repressions, it's entirely likely that a number of respondents would keep their sexual behavior to themselves.  They'd have centuries-worth of repression and worse behind their decision.  

So only those that admitted to their gay and bi proclivities had more children? That is possible, but somewhat validates my theory that true bisexuals have higher than normal sex drives.

 

 

4 hours ago, hntnhole said:

My own personal reasoning points to an effective repression of any sexual activities that won't potentially produce offspring.  Cultural, and more importantly religious beliefs can really stunt a gay man or woman's emotional health, and the only way I know of to overcome it is to simply shuck it off as irrelevant to that person's life, and move on.  

That is even more intriguing in light of the large number of men that want to be fully out and celebrate the gay lifestyle, so much so that they go to the bathhouses and fuck venues to see and be seen, but don't participate in the actual fucking. Is that just a really messed up version of repression? They aren't just here where I live, I've been watching and trying to understand this for several years and have noticed they are present even in cities that are gay sex Mecca's, they just aren't the majority in those places that they are here.

[hntnhole]

18 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

but don't participate in the actual fucking

I can't explain that either, but then I haven't noticed that situation in the fuckjoints I go to.  At Slammer, there are simply far too many guys to mentally keep track of, even if I were inclined to do that.  I wouldn't know if I'd been there at the same time they were from one week to the next (excluding some hot bottoms, of course).  

I suppose it's possible that emotionally, some guys want to be seen to be pigs, as a part the raw community, and show up at the fuckjoints but fail to have any sex.  To me at least, that would be a lot of bother for precious little reward.  Frankly, it's what a man does that matters - not what he might appear to be doing. 

There are plenty of places where gay men go to socialize, some of the bars over in Wilton Manors are jammed all night long with guys not having sex.  Even some of the bars where guys do fuck have areas where that happens, and not in the main bar area.  Ramrod is like a weekend meeting place for gay friends of long standing too.  Sometimes it's almost funny; a group of buddies can be blabbing away, right next to a group of guys fucking each other.  

To the OP though, I'm hoping some other guys can offer differing viewpoints on why those findings may/may not be valid.  I'm not doubting the researcher's intent, nor their product, but there's got to be more they didn't factor into their conclusions.  

 

[WillingRawVerse]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:02 PM, NWUSHorny said:

Just curious, doesn't the loss in libido lead to deeper depression?

It does to a certain degree. It doesn't help that I've been in an "I don't desire any sex right now" mood. And I love sex. It's my anxiety. I'm trying to get hired and no luck yet. Once I get through this, I'll be back at it.

[tallslenderguy]

On 1/5/2024 at 12:32 PM, hntnhole said:

Interesting article; thanks for posting it, NWUSHorny.

(from the article)     "But if the errors aren’t random — if, for example, somewhat same-sex oriented people are more likely to misidentify themselves as heterosexual"

I don't see much material about this cultural issue in the article.  What appears to be not in the consideration of the scientists, is that fact that thanks to cultural/religious repressions, it's entirely likely that a number of respondents would keep their sexual behavior to themselves.  They'd have centuries-worth of repression and worse behind their decision.  

To another point the researchers raised, is something I've occasionally noticed:  the gay or straight gene seems to run in extended families, meaning that in any generation, one (extended) family may have more gay men or women in their wider biological family, and the opposite true of families with no known gay members.  

To the point that bi/gay men appear to father more children, could that be since they are simply craving that which we all crave: sex.  If they can't have it the way they want, they'll get it from their second-choice partner - their de rigueur wives - and finding it less fulfilling than their same-sex partners, want all the more sex, hoping to find that which is denied them for cultural/religious reasons. 

"why there seem to be so many gay men who are mostly or completely averse to sexual activities"

My own personal reasoning points to an effective repression of any sexual activities that won't potentially produce offspring.  Cultural, and more importantly religious beliefs can really stunt a gay man or woman's emotional health, and the only way I know of to overcome it is to simply shuck it off as irrelevant to that person's life, and move on.  

 

From the article: "In the Nature Ecology and Evolution study, for example, the authors argue that scientists’ assumption that opposite-sex attraction is normal and ancestral “has not been rigorously examined.”

To me, this alines with hntnhole's thoughts on cultural/religious conditioning.  I.e., is much of evolutionary theory regarding sex based on presumptive bias?  The overarching notion that "survival of the species" is about "normal" reproduction. 

From the article: “Indeed, indiscriminate mating can be more beneficial than it is costly.”

"Mating" seems a euphemisim for fucking here?   i'd wager no group engages in more "indiscriminate fucking" than gays?  At least, it seems more culturally expected if not generally socially always accepted.  

To me, some of the bigger factors missing in evolutionary theory is the influence of intelligent design and intervention on evolution.  E.g., straights wanna have sex without making babies,  so we invent contraception. Gays wanna fuck raw and with abandon, so we invent antivirals.  

This is a vast topic.

 

[NWUSHorny]

@hntnhole & @tallslenderguy I do suspect cultural repression is partly behind the emergence of gay and bi men who either can't admit their desire to fuck. None of us can really understand that since we allowed our biological urges take precedence over the cultural at least in private or in the exclusive company of like minded men and women. I also suspect there is some biology in play here, these men have a definite preference for same sex companionship and/or romance, but do not seem to have the same strong biological drive to engage in sex. Ironically that same cultural repression that drive me nuts, in the past was a factor in getting people with low sex drives to procreate, they didn't enjoy it but did it out of a sense of obligation.

[ktopper]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:18 PM, NWUSHorny said:

So only those that admitted to their gay and bi proclivities had more children? That is possible, but somewhat validates my theory that true bisexuals have higher than normal sex drives.

 

Yes, I also believe this is true. My experience is that both Bisexuals and fully gay men have a higher sex drive than straight men.

[ktopper]

I have often wondered about the evolutionary role of same sex attraction. In certain places at certain periods of history people were killed for it. It would seem that with that kind of selective pressure against it any "gay gene" would become increasingly rare. Yet homosexuality persists. Maybe that is because there is a bit of it in everyone. It gets "turned on" under certain conditions.

None of my ancestors or relatives were or are the least bit gay to my knowledge. I myself had no interest in men throughout my formative teen years or early adulthood. I did have a strong sex drive for the opposite sex and was fairly successful with them. I was mid twenties before having my first gay encounter. I developed an appetite for it. But I don't think I was "born gay", I became gay (more accurately bisexual) because I wanted to. I switched on something inherent in my make up and have enjoyed the ride since then. The article mentions risk taking being tied to gay and bisexual men. I have always been a risk taker, AKA adventurous.

I think that there is probably some evolutionary advantage for a population through a tendency for same sex attraction although I don't know what it is.

[NWUSHorny]

8 hours ago, ktopper said:

I have often wondered about the evolutionary role of same sex attraction. In certain places at certain periods of history people were killed for it. It would seem that with that kind of selective pressure against it any "gay gene" would become increasingly rare. Yet homosexuality persists. Maybe that is because there is a bit of it in everyone. It gets "turned on" under certain conditions.

None of my ancestors or relatives were or are the least bit gay to my knowledge. I myself had no interest in men throughout my formative teen years or early adulthood. I did have a strong sex drive for the opposite sex and was fairly successful with them. I was mid twenties before having my first gay encounter. I developed an appetite for it. But I don't think I was "born gay", I became gay (more accurately bisexual) because I wanted to. I switched on something inherent in my make up and have enjoyed the ride since then. The article mentions risk taking being tied to gay and bisexual men. I have always been a risk taker, AKA adventurous.

I think that there is probably some evolutionary advantage for a population through a tendency for same sex attraction although I don't know what it is.

I'm fully bi, like you I acted on my heterosexual desires several years before I acted on my same sex desires, but once I tried any form of penetrative sex, there was no turning back, I wanted it again and was willing to take the risks to get it. The biggest impediment to my sex life has been with available partners in some geographic areas. I've lived in the PNW for 10 years, and during that time have had most of my adventures while traveling. Gay men here are less into anal sex than most places, and while there may be a surplus of oral only bottoms, there really isn't much of a hookup culture. To be fair I've also seen some really strange things on the straight side as well. I am friends with a bisexual couple that used to hit the adult theaters to try to get her gang banged, even when she was in her 20's and very attractive by any standard at least half of the time the crowd  in the theater would completely ignore her. I remember one night in particular when we were trying to get her gang banged directly in front of the screen when an older not very attractive couple came in and sat in the roped off couples area at the rear of the theater and the entire crowd turned around for the next couple of hours to watch them not do anything except smile at them. For whatever reason this older larger woman had their undivided attention without doing anything sexual. I think my friend only managed to get fucked by 3 men that night, including her husband and I, on a night when there were at least 50 men in the theater at any given time.

Edited January 8 by NWUSHorny

[hntnhole]

23 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

they didn't enjoy it but did it out of a sense of obligation

Agreed - with the obligation to what?   

I would posit that would be our ancient enemy, Organized Religion.  In the effort to cover the world with certain religious beliefs, and thus accruing corporal/emotional power to themselves, some religious institutions forbade any form of birth-control.  For instance, it wasn't until 1968 that the Pope allowed women to take advantage of "the pill".  I would further hazard a guess that one of the reasons so many of our neighbors in the Southern Hemisphere are trying so desperately to get to America, is the overpopulating taught them by the original invaders of that continent - Catholic Spain.  The more adherents fearful of hell, the more dough flowing back to Rome.  This while the clergy were busy lifting their long fancy dresses and fucking each other, teaching choirboys that sucking Cock is a holy activity, on and on. 

The post-Reformation lturgical institutions may be ever-so-slightly less culpable, but I wouldn't bother trying to fit a piece of paper between the two.