How do you define "Top"

[hntnhole]

22 hours ago, anonCUMtainer said:

The difficulty with this - is that DESIRE is fickle and nimble

I agree. 

Thus, I don't use that word, as it is too amorphous in and of itself, to convey much of anything.  I desire a mug of hot black coffee in the mornings, and I get it every single time I want it.  I desire 3 squares a day, and I get them.  I desire a new Ferrari too, but I don't have one.  Merely desiring something and needing something are two different things.  

Needs are concrete, they are necessary and crucial to our well-being.  Desires are more fluid, can vary from time to time, and are, by definition, unstable.  The desire to have sex can be assuaged merely with your fist.  The need for food, shelter, well being, overcomes desires every time.  

You're entirely correct, in that "desire" is fickle and and can move from one thing to another easily.  From the Oxford: "a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen" makes clear that there are stronger urges, more foundational orientations than mere desire.  "Desire" is, as you describe, quite fickle and nimble.  We see a shirt in some store we desire, but can easily walk away when it's out of stock, or costs more than we want to spend, or whatever.  Desires can come, they can go, and are too fluid to hang any real behavior-pattern on.  

Finding the best descriptor isn't always easy, and it can be a chore, but it's useful when we have only typed words to communicate.  We're denied our facial expressions, vocal emphasis, all of that. 

Total Tops don't "desire" being the active partner, they simply "need" to be the active partner.  They simply are. Same goes for total bottoms.  Interestingly, some are both, like NWUSHorny.  We're a widely varying lot, aren't we?  

 

[hntnhole]

As LuxBrit above pointed out, it's "possible" for any guy to perform in either position.  

That said, it's hardly "natural" for us to assume the position we're simply not oriented to.

Example:

One of my "partners-in-Lust" was a Top that I'd seen at the big orgies, fucked guys next to while he was fucking, and we saw each other at enough orgies that we became friendly.  Not "friends", just friendly.  Turned out he lived fairly close by, and when I was keeping that cumdump, he'd come over and add his dna to the mix fairly often.  Sometimes he'd call and invite me over when he had some hot piece over there.  

When covid came along, everyone was afraid to keep up what had been the "normal" routine, and lots of guys either just stopped fucking or settled down with a partner.  It was sort of like a mini-appearance of hiv.  So, every time I'd seen him, he was Topping, sometimes right next to me doing the same.  We talked about what to do, I liked him, and amazingly, he seemed to like me, and we arrived at a solution:  we'd get together and do the best we could to weather the covid storm.  He didn't ask, but I knew from the orgies that he was a Top, and didn't possess a gigantic Cock.  After some hemming and hawing, we agreed that we'd fuck each other one time, to see if it worked, masks and all.   

Now.  I don't like to get fucked. At all.  I did it occasionally for my life-partner, of course, but that was just because I loved him more than anything.  Frankly, I can't imagine any guy wanting to fuck my ass, but - in the interests of getting to fuck him, I allowed him to fuck me. I didn't like it, but I allowed it in the interests of getting at least some Hole to fuck, and at least I liked him personally.  

I've never identified as a bottom, but - given the circumstances - I allowed it for that guy (and he's ... well ... modestly endowed) and we got through the worst onslaught of covid together.  Once the covid shots were available, it wasn't spreading like initially, we drifted apart, and he finally fell in love and moved away.  It was nothing more than two guys that trusted each other, getting through a pandemic with at least some raw hole to fuck.  I'd be surprised if he ever thinks of me, and I seldom think of him now.  It was nothing more than dealing with a problem, gritting the teeth, and getting through the pandemic together.  

What we're naturally oriented to do, and what we're able to do under certain deleterious circumstances, are two different things.  

[PozBearWI]

Pretty simple for me; a top is the guy whose dick is currently fucking my hole....

[BlueSaphir]

I perceived the top as someone exclusively whose needs the pleasure of being the penetrator, Showing his dominance, his strength; the dominant male. 
A bottom is someone that exclusively who’s enjoys being penetrated and ENJOYS being submissive and being receptive to any alpha male. 
 

Then vers are guys who enjoy being both. They don’t have any exclusivity of being the far end dominant or far end of being submissive. They have a mutual needs of expressing both spectrum of being dominant and submissiveness. That’s how I perceived my views. 

[tallslenderguy]

20 hours ago, hntnhole said:

 

Total Tops don't "desire" being the active partner, they simply "need" to be the active partner.  They simply are. Same goes for total bottoms.  Interestingly, some are both, like NWUSHorny.  We're a widely varying lot, aren't we?  

 

This is how i see it too. It makes me cringe when someone implies, or outright says, i cannot be the way i am.  It triggers old religious feelings when i was shamed for being gay. It was an awakening for me  when i realized the gay community is just like any other, with all the same biases and attitudes to go along with being attracted to the same gender lol.  

[hntnhole]

15 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

when someone implies, or outright says

Even as a little (5,6 y's old) I felt that I didn't need to allow things to happen I didn't like.  

Example:  At our church there was an old couple named Swanson, that ran a little vacuum cleaner shop over on Broadway.  When I was a little kid (5,6?) there was a coffee hour in the basement, and Lilly Swanson and that pasty-faced husband of hers were always there.  Every time she got a chance at "coffee-hour", that old toad would find my grandmother to blab at, and actually pet me under my chin.  This happened over and over and over, month after month, and finally I had enough.   I tried any number of times to shake free of grandma's hand, get away, but it was crowded, and gram knew I'd probably run into someone, or whatever. 

One fine Sunday after services (I know I wasn't tall enough yet for my head to be even with grandma's waist, and she was hardly tall), that hideous old crone Lilly Swanson pulled her usual routine, and started the detested stroking my chin.  This time, however, I kicked her in the shin as hard as I possibly could.  The old bitch screamed, grandma gasped, and my mom grabbed me by the arm and hauled me outta there post-haste. 

I don't recall if I got a beating for it, but I've never forgotten the thrill of standing my ground, even as a little kid, refusing to accept that which I detested, and kicking that old woman as hard as I could.  It's one of my very favorite memories of early childhood. 

Even as a little kid, there was only so far someone could push me before I pushed back even harder.  

[tallslenderguy]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:56 PM, BlackDude said:

I’m “middle aged.” I have never bottomed, and don’t have a desire too.

The closest I came was a guy I was dating who was verse. I knew he wanted it. After a few drinks, and hot tub time, I decided to finally bite the bullet. Fortunately the booze and hot tub made us so relaxed for the evening, we both fell asleep. 
 

I woke up, the mood passed, and I haven’t come close again since. 

Yes. Most of the Tops i have been with are like You in this respect, or at least claim to be. i can either take them at face value or impose my own ideas on them of who i think they are or perceive them to be. It gets back to my opening statement that i do not think there is one standard definition and that we may have general ideas for the sake of crude identification, the "Top" is in the details that may or may not mesh with the receivers desires/needs for a "Top."  

 i have encountered guys who start out Top and evolve into versatile or even total bottom... lots of stories on BZ from guys who have changed that way, and vice versa, guys who tried bottoming and found out they don't want/need that.  

To me, neither sets a "standard definition" that i feel all should aspire to fit into. i think it's the other way around, words are there to help us convey the individual using them, not as a standard they have to conform to. The FB i relate in my OP is a good example... he seems to be finding need/want beyond the Top needs/desires that bonded to my bottom needs/desires for several years. i've even tried to fuck him because i really love him and want him to get what he wants/needs, but despite trying, i only get hard when a Top wants to breed me and i could not do it. And even if i could physically pull it off, i  (personally) still do not believe that's a good idea, because even if he gets the physical part of a top in him, he would not be getting the psychological part of a top in him... and to me, that's as important, if not more so, when it comes to good, whole and sustainable sexual relationship with another.

i think it's incorrect reasoning to say that because i have a functional penis i should Top, and worse, i think it's sort of obnoxious to imply or say that one is being selfish or is somehow inferior because they don't have the same desire or need that "I" have.  

There's all sorts of examples. i've encountered guys who wanted to suck on my hole and eat scat from it. They could posit that since everyone has a functional mouth that everyone should eat shit. Sure, everyone with a mouth has that capability, but not everyone has the need or desire. i do not think it makes one or the other any better or worse, superior or inferior, selfish or unselfish. It means they have a particular need/desire and instead of imposing that on everyone with a mouth, they need to find a compatible match, someone who needs/desires them as they are.  And, those people exist. 

What it comes down to, as i see it, is compatibility.  i only want to be with someone who wants/needs me as much as i want/need them. If another guy is a bottom or versatile who needs/wants a top, i'll give a hug and a kiss, but won't pretend to want/need something i don't  because they want/need it. If i really like a guy and have a connection with him, i may try to help him get what he wants/needs, but i won't pretend to be that person. But that's me, and i have always found enough compatible Tops to sustain that i'm not delusional lol. 

 

[Read1]

How would I define a "TOP?" A TOP is not a bottom but IN a bottom!

[Norcalfukkr]

A “top” is my fuck toy,he is my penetrateur, seducer, lover, corruptor, dominator, who uses me to fulfill my desire to pleasure him and in return he rewards me with his seed. 

[hungry_hole]

The term top, and bottom, are ambiguous, and mean different things to different people.

Is someone who likes spending time at the ABS's gloryholes getting his cock sucked and milked, a top,  even if he's not into anal?

I prefer to think of what is required in a man to be the traditional top, the guy who can get his cock hard, who enjoys fucking and dumping his load in holes.

First, if a guy has problems with the idea of pleasuring another man by him being penetrated, he's probably not a bottom, but he may be a candidate to top, someone who penetrates.

Second, a guy has to be able to get good hard-ons and be able to maintain them until he cums. A guy who has trouble getting a hard-on or to maintain it, is not a good candidate for a top. That is why as men age men and start having trouble getting it up, tend to become bottoms.

Third, to fully enjoy topping, the top has to make the enjoyment last, which means being able to top for a long time and without shooting their load. Guys who cum too quickly are not good candidates for top.  A good top never feels insecure that he may not get a hard-on or maintain it, because he's always hard and horny.

If I could always get a hard-on and keep it, and if I could fuck many holes without shooting, I would be a top, and at the sauna, I would visit the rooms I want, fuck the holes I want, and then when I decide, I would choose a hole and dump my load. I would rest for a bit, and I would again be ready to keep fucking and breeding holes. I would be a top or at least versatile top.

If I

[hntnhole]

3 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

If I could always get a hard-on and keep it, and if I could fuck many holes without shooting, I would be a top, and at the sauna, I would visit the rooms I want, fuck the holes I want, and then when I decide, I would choose a hole and dump my load. I would rest for a bit, and I would again be ready to keep fucking and breeding holes

That's S.O.P. - standard operating procedure - for a lot of Tops, if not most. 

If we at least rut in (if not actually Breed) as many Holes as we want, then those that we do Breed receive our very best efforts.  It's downright exciting as hell to rut in a number of Holes before pumping our loads up a couple of them.  Most Tops don't actually Breed in every Hole they rut in - not physically, at least.  But they do connect mentally, emotionally with that bottom, the bottom's Hole, and are in union with the entire man they're fucking.  Not, perhaps as completely as the guys that take his Sperm, but the act of rutting in many Holes is damn thrilling for most Tops.  

I don't see that as selfish, since every bottom will get some guy's seed pumped up his gut.  It's merely how we're wired.