Should US leave NATO?

[nanana]

With US footing the bill at 70%, maybe the Europeans would be freer to pursue their war policies and pay for them themselves?

[PupLucca]

Absolutely NOT! Although NATO may kick us out thanks to trump and his policies 

[PupLucca]

6 hours ago, nanana said:

With US footing the bill at 70%, maybe the Europeans would be freer to pursue their war policies and pay for them themselves?

That is factually false.  Stop repeating and parroting trump.

[phukhole]

6 hours ago, nanana said:

With US footing the bill at 70%, maybe the Europeans would be freer to pursue their war policies and pay for them themselves?

Pick a different source than Fox News. None of your statement is true.  The only war policies being chased are Russia's and Trump and WAY too many Republicans, are supporting him.

[nanana]

I appreciate your assertion that my statistics are wrong. Aside from your assertion what’s your evidence or source?

[PhoenixTriad]

Per the BBC - The three biggest contributors to this are the US and Germany at 16% and the UK at 11%

NATO's website backs it up:

Cost share arrangements for civil budget, military budget and NATO Security Investment Programme

NationCost share "at 32" following the accession of Sweden
Valid as from 7 March 2024 until 31 December 2025

Albania0.0882

Belgium2.0447

Bulgaria0.3552

Canada6.6840

Croatia0.2910

Czechia1.0259

Denmark1.2744

Estonia0.1213

Finland0.9057

France10.1940

Germany15.8813

Greece1.0273

Hungary0.7380

Iceland0.0624

Italy8.5324

Latvia0.1550

Lithuania0.2493

Luxembourg0.1645

Montenegro0.0283

Netherlands3.3528

North Macedonia0.0756

Norway1.7267

Poland2.9015

Portugal1.0194

Romania1.1931

Slovakia0.5014

Slovenia0.2212

Spain5.8211

Sweden1.9277

Türkiye4.5927

United Kingdom10.9626

United States15.8813

TOTAL NATO100.0000

 

 

Fox "News" ought to be outlawed; its created too many imbeciles.

 

[nanana]

This is much better detail than I had, so it will not be as big a financial blow to Europe if the US withdraws. 

[nanana]

It’s a shame that Democrats and lefties are in complete denial about Obama starting the war in 2014 when Victoria Nuland instigated the Maydan coup, overthrew the democratically elected president, and started a civil war that resulted in 14000 deaths, all while their vice president was giving his crackhead son cover for a corrupt Burisma sinecure. But sadly most leftie Demos only get “curated” news that leave them with the hysterical sensation that Democrats actually practice the pretty pretty words they preach. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Who’s now in charge? Super excited that Putin is brokering peace between Iran and US. One bonus question: when did Demos and RINOs decide it was prudent to jettison Washington’s advice about entangling alliances or Quincy Adams’ advice not to go overseas for monsters to destroy?”

[nanana]

Instead of more Ukrainian and Russian bloodletting maybe Ursula von der Leyen could just have a MASSIVE ETERNAL PERIOD to slake Europe’s bloodlust. 

[viking8x6]

OK people, don't get your knickers in a twist!

@nanana's statement is not false per se, although it is somewhat misleading.

If you combine the military spending of all NATO countries, US spending is approximately 70% of it (over the last 10 years). BUT (and this is why it's misleading) that's ALL military spending for the countries in question, including all operations everywhere, not just in Europe or on "Europe-relevant" theaters of engagement.

If anyone wants to see the numbers, you can find them here: https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2024/6/pdf/240617-def-exp-2024-en.pdf

 

Personally, I think we (the US) spend too much. Of course, that's what the President says, too... Do I have to disinfect myself now?

[PozBearWI]

No @viking8x6.  No disinfection needed.

But I think both you and I agree that leaving NATO is a bad idea.  Balancing NATO cost vs benefits is complex because there aren't clearly defined boundaries that describe costs and benefits.  It is more about the evolution of a cooperative set of societies on earth vs uncooperative.  But nonetheless as our societies evolve rebalancing these things makes sense.  Can we cooperate with each other on this one planet we all share?  Or not?  That seems to be the point.  

Truly I don't see the attraction anyone has ever had to Mr Trump.  His life is as a self described deal maker and the best one ever.  He created the Mexico/US/Canada trade deal in his first term.  Now he decries it as the worst deal ever made.  But it was HIS deal.  His lifelong pattern has been making deals and then violating the very deals he made.  That isn't a deal.  That's the ploy of a con man.  

Much of NATO is around the idea of agreeing where national boundaries are.  But guys like Putin and now Trump want to "renegotiate" those.  But not for us, for themselves....

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:20 PM by PozBearWI

[SlampaBay]

16 hours ago, nanana said:

It’s a shame that Democrats and lefties are in complete denial about Obama starting the war in 2014 when Victoria Nuland instigated the Maydan coup, overthrew the democratically elected president, and started a civil war that resulted in 14000 deaths, all while their vice president was giving his crackhead son cover for a corrupt Burisma sinecure. But sadly most leftie Demos only get “curated” news that leave them with the hysterical sensation that Democrats actually practice the pretty pretty words they preach. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Who’s now in charge? Super excited that Putin is brokering peace between Iran and US. One bonus question: when did Demos and RINOs decide it was prudent to jettison Washington’s advice about entangling alliances or Quincy Adams’ advice not to go overseas for monsters to destroy?”

When, as the #1 power in the world, we realized that we were PART of the world and had to take responsibility as such. 

There is plenty of aspects that Washington, Adams, Franklin, et al didn’t take into consideration when they were figuring out our new country’s government. They had their hands busy and couldn’t imagine a future such as ours. If they had they would have been overwhelmed. And likely more specific when crafting some of their work.

[SlampaBay]

19 hours ago, nanana said:

This is much better detail than I had, so it will not be as big a financial blow to Europe if the US withdraws. 

And by the way, what is YOUR source of information, especially for things like “70%”?

[nanana]

7 minutes ago, SlampaBay said:

And by the way, what is YOUR source of information, especially for things like “70%”?

Very fair question. My source is Ron Paul. I hope my responses to facts shared in this forum add a nuance for those who cry mis-information. Long before it was a thoughtcrime many fact-loving people were wrong, made mistakes, or cited statistics from a slightly different time set. Anyone who reports annual data for a non-calendar fiscal year will run into how confounding it can be to normalize data. Without presuming to know the souls and motivations of anyone let along the pixellated mysteries on this site, I can easily imagine that many of you who may passionately disagree with the way I see things may be equally as passionate as I am about wishing for a path to peace. I wish you all profound peace in this very moment, but maybe unlike Viking8x6’s caution I bet the lads on this site may enjoy some group knicker-twisting in dark rooms… 🙂

im sure it can be upsetting to confront diverse ways of thinking, but imagine how it might feel to be in a thought-minority…

be safe!

[Eastvillagefun]

Just a few things to consider with NATO funding. Member contributions are calculated as a % of GDP (makes sense, right?). The target worked is 2%. The US does contribute more than that, butt not the highest. Poland and Estonia each contribute a higher percentage. Some countries are below 2%.

Also keep in mind that the US is the only country to have actually invoked Article 5, and received NATO support in a military action after an attack (in response to the 9/11 attack.)